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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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Going from something as risky as Tangle and Whisper to something that'd be a surefire success like Shadow, Knuckles, or Blaze would be expected.

I'd personally like to see a graduale uptick towards the heavy hitters though. I dunno. Maybe do something crazy like give one to Rouge.  The annual did well to show how she actually is a character and not one of Shadow's limbs that got detached and became a person.

That'd be me however. He'll probably go for the more expected ones. No need to have your fingers crossed for those if these mini series continue.

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32 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

Going from something as risky as Tangle and Whisper to something that'd be a surefire success like Shadow, Knuckles, or Blaze would be expected.

I'd personally like to see a graduale uptick towards the heavy hitters though. I dunno. Maybe do something crazy like give one to Rouge.  The annual did well to show how she actually is a character and not one of Shadow's limbs that got detached and became a person.

That'd be me however. He'll probably go for the more expected ones. No need to have your fingers crossed for those if these mini series continue.

The only reason I didn't put on for Rouge first is because I doubt she'll ever get one.

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45 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The only reason I didn't put on for Rouge first is because I doubt she'll ever get one.

I would hope personally, new shadow would allow for this. Something I have wanted for quite sometime was  an team dark to sort of...break up. I made note even back during the archie reboot days that team dark did not feel like a team. In a sense I feel a bit validated because it turns out the reason they didn't back during the archie reboot is because Ian Flynn admitted to being told... they weren't essentially.  So having these characters finally break up be their own people would be interesting. Maybe rouge being involved in issue 6 comes around and they sort of don't team up no more because they had a big ol' fight. Leaving omega with depression alone with robo depression

What I have come to realize though , despite me wanting a rouge thing is that I don't know if people are interested enough in the character herself to actually buy somethig focused on her. And i can kinda see them not doing it because of that. i hope i'm wrong though

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9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Eh? Sega's mandates regarding the series in general right now are confusing. And i'm not one to defend a giant corporation, what happened to shadow I feel like was a combo effort. Sega has perimeters, they didn't make Ian Flynn write the scenario's he did and to be blunt I feel like other writers could have pulled it off. It is a criticism I have had of flynn for years, but one of his biggest flaws is his inability to sort of let go of story ideas. Even if he is told by the higher ups something isn't bueno, he's just go on with an altered version of it that may not actually work.

I feel like he can make this shadow work, if he would be willing to sometimes just kind of give up on forcing the overarching narrative if its failing the characters on an individual level. If something doesn't work throw it out and work on something that works on an individual level.

But if we are considering he just doesn't want to do that, I guess thats the only way to make him work. Though if i'm being honest, the lack of adaptability is a failure on his part

 

 

Uh, what do you mean? I don't think somethings correlating here.

 

7 hours ago, Eurisko said:

In the sense that they can come of as a legitimate threat rather than comedic , and lets face it after Lost World, Forces and Team Sonic Racing Zavok in particular could do with some credibility.

They're supposed to be a combination of the two, but I get ya.

Except Zavok, funnily enough. In his case, he's in the most need of some fleshing out on top of slight rerailing.

6 hours ago, Pumpkin Spice Ultima said:

I wonder if we'll get a miniseries that focuses on Blaze having an adventure on her own in the Sol Dimension, while the metal virus thing is happening in Sonic's world. Maybe introduce Eggman Nega if he isnt off limits here.

Yeah, hopefully. Cause that's something she never truly got.

5 hours ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

 

I'd personally like to see a graduale uptick towards the heavy hitters though. I dunno. Maybe do something crazy like give one to Rouge.  The annual did well to show how she actually is a character and not one of Shadow's limbs that got detached and became a person.

So many neat ideas, so little time.

5 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Zavok and friends are the best things I've seen so far in this comic. 

They've only been in like one comic thus far. :lol: And it was just Zor.

I see your point, though.

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6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Uh, what do you mean? I don't think somethings correlating here.

 

 

Sorry if i'm rambling. I don't think a miniseries is the only thing to fix shadow. I think the writer we have as much as I enjoy his work would rather force characters down an unfortunate road than try and warp his story to fix the characters. I have felt like he's always been like that, I feel like that's the same thing that made the werehog arc in the reboot hella boring. Its what made some of his continuations after his take over of the pre-boot kinda weird and bad. I think this shadow can be worked with and fixed fine, not the best version of the character, but things can be done. But he doesn't want to do those things, he really wants to tell a very specific kind of story and if sega tells him know he's still try to force it out... even if it isn't great. I feel like him ....just telling a different story and be willing to adapt could yield a better comic. But unfortunately , he doesn't want to .

So I guess you could think a miniseries would be the only way to fix him. I don't think, I think one of the things Ian Flynn can do to fix shadow, is adapt

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6 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Nah bring back Captain Whisker, the actually-good alternate Eggman.

 

6 hours ago, Pumpkin Spice Ultima said:

Yeah him too and Johnny

Null Mind would've been great, even if he was initially more of a plot convenience.

6 hours ago, Heckboy said:

Nah, Nega is epic. I hope they can use him.

It still hurts that we never got much exploration or payoff of his multiversal war.

6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Sorry if i'm rambling. I don't think a miniseries is the only thing to fix shadow. I think the writer we have as much as I enjoy his work would rather force characters down an unfortunate road than try and warp his story to fix the characters.

I think this shadow can be worked with and fixed fine, not the best version of the character, but things can be done. But he doesn't want to do those things, he really wants to tell a very specific kind of story and if sega tells him know he's still try to force it out... even if it isn't great. I feel like him ....just telling a different story and be willing to adapt could yield a better comic. But unfortunately , he doesn't want to .

So I guess you could think a miniseries would be the only way to fix him. I don't think, I think one of the things Ian Flynn can do to fix shadow, is adapt

So what you're saying is, "He should've changed the story once SEGA made him change Shadow?" Okay.

I was thinking about how Shadow being "Sonic's Dark Rival" has been over 80% of his panel time thus far and it isn't working to say the least, so perhaps he should be given something else to do in order have something good to his name. And the obvious way would be given him his own story again.

Well that and starting to delve into Whisper's grudge towards him.

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2 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

So what you're saying is, "He should've changed the story once SEGA made him change Shadow?"

To be blunt, yeah. Obviously this doesn't work every time. Sometimes Sega comes in last minute and are like " we don't like this " but shadow's characterization is something he's known for a while, and IIRC the writing he does gets pitched a great deal before people start drawing it. He was aware of what they wanted shadow to be, last year. With this knowledge I feel as though if you are gonna write a story about the character write one that works with what the character has to be rather than trying to force him to be something he can't , fail and make the character look really stupid. 

Obviously they can't predict everything. Like I said, sometimes it last minute and if that was the case in issue 19 then Sega fucked up. But if its clear that who they want shadow to be is incongruous with the story being told...then incorporate shadow a different way. Ian Flynn isn't the only person in comic books who has to deal with such things let a lone entertainment. Often times you get demands from on high, and you figure it out. That isn't to say that's easy.

To flynn's credit and to devil's advocate my own argument, contrary to the popular belief on the internet. I think sega's intention wasn't to make shadow more rivalry it was to " Protect shadow's brand/heat " much like in wrestling there are wrestlers who are basically protected kinda almost never loose and are viewed as unstoppable forces.  An example would hulk hogan back in his prime on of his few losses he would only take the loss if he got up right after the 3 count making it seem like the other person barely won. Or an example of someone with a demeanor closer to shadow, before it was taken away by Brock Lesnar, the undertaker several decade winning streak at wrestlemania. ( Though the latter is ironic because the undertake would often take losses when he had the title so he would boost other wrestlers because he was so popular it wouldn't matter ) . To get to my point of...dismantling part of my previous point and to defend Ian Flynn, that's a lot harder to deal with and I feel for him. Dealing with characterization at least to me is...easy. Dealing with a character who needs to be strong enough to body super individuals free while  not super himself is a bit harder. Now he has to come up with threats that don't allow for shadow to dissipate tension.

So do I think Ian Flynn should be open to going different routes in narrative? Yes

Do I think he is solely at fault? God no

Do I think this sort of thing plays into one of his flaws? Yes

Do I think he has it easy by any means? No, if anyone elses accounts of dealing with sega are indication no it is not easy.

I just think a lot of the criticism absolves Flynn and I don't think that's right to do , Ian flynn knew what the deal was last year. And if sega wants him to be a super powerful dick, then write a story even if he needs to be zombified that plays into him being a super powerful dick. He wrote something self sacrificial and which doesn't seem anywhere near the direction they want him in, for a few reasons. And then when the ending of that story got bopped he had to write a super powerful dick in a story meant for self sacrifice and its what we got.

So yeah kinda

 

 

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong but all he said was that he had different plans for Shadow, right? He didn't give details as far as I know. I'm not that bothered by the story as is but I'm a little curious what the plan was.

I guess there was that claim from someone who met him at a con that was going around...but the scenario Ian allegedly talked about wasn't actually different from what happened in the issue. It's still weird to me people latched onto that.

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38 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but all he said was that he had different plans for Shadow, right? He didn't give details as far as I know. I'm not that bothered by the story as is but I'm a little curious what the plan was.

I guess there was that claim from someone who met him at a con that was going around...but the scenario Ian allegedly talked about wasn't actually different from what happened in the issue. It's still weird to me people latched onto that.

I know he said he intended on characterizing him differently, but that's about it. 

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I'd certainly prefer a series focused on one of the lesser characters; I love Shadow and Knuckles as much as the next person, but even I'll admit they got really overexposed in Sonic Universe. Think they had the most arcs about them combined out of the entire series. 

 

I get they're popular, but jeez. 

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I kinda hope we get a miniseries set in the 6 month gap in Sonic Forces. Never mind about the game itself there's some interesting stories you could tell in that time period. 

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30 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'd certainly prefer a series focused on one of the lesser characters; I love Shadow and Knuckles as much as the next person, but even I'll admit they got really overexposed in Sonic Universe. Think they had the most arcs about them combined out of the entire series. 

 

I get they're popular, but jeez. 

I generally I agree.  I don't think they got over exposed and i'm salty their stories didn't really get finished, but other series would be ok. Blaze's world would be neat but I have no idea how sega feels about that shit.

That said I kinda get , like why. Outside of them just being popular, this is an entirely new land scape and and having those key characters sort of do well with other opportunities. Also I guess isolating shadow might be where the good stories come from. It probably behooves them to make that work because I get the feeling the shadow books do... ok. That said wouldn't mind if other folks got shine, maybe even in the main book

Wouldn't mind an entire arc in blaze's world, but that's just me, anyone else?

All that said we could be off, the it could be a bout big fishing while the entire zombie thing is going on.

 

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5 hours ago, Celestia said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but all he said was that he had different plans for Shadow, right? He didn't give details as far as I know. I'm not that bothered by the story as is but I'm a little curious what the plan was.

I guess there was that claim from someone who met him at a con that was going around...but the scenario Ian allegedly talked about wasn't actually different from what happened in the issue. It's still weird to me people latched onto that.

Ian did make it clear he had something different in mind on his podcast but he didn't go into explicit detail about the plan as far as I recall. He agreed with the criticism and talked about how he's got more restriction on characters like Shadow and Germel and more freedom with Sonic and Eggman (which is still weird but it does explain why Eggman has retained his ruthless Archie self here and Shadow is so different).

Even on this weeks podcast, someone asked him if he'd like to play around with the concept of Shadow owning that Dark Chao that shows up in Sonic Channel artwork all the time and he gushed about wanting to play with that dynamic... but then said that the powers that be probably wouldn't allow that considering how they want him to write Shadow. Then he moved on.

Again, personally, I like the idea of Shadow being more at odds with Sonic in terms of ideals so I'm fine with this so long as its well written. 

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6 hours ago, Celestia said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but all he said was that he had different plans for Shadow, right? He didn't give details as far as I know. I'm not that bothered by the story as is but I'm a little curious what the plan was.

I guess there was that claim from someone who met him at a con that was going around...but the scenario Ian allegedly talked about wasn't actually different from what happened in the issue. It's still weird to me people latched onto that.

Because it tracks with what else he said and it would have characterized shadow differently.

12 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

 but then said that the powers that be probably wouldn't allow that considering how they want him to write Shadow. Then he moved on.

 

He will never outright say on his podcast what it was supposed to be, but its situations like this that make the scenario believable.

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4 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I kinda hope we get a miniseries set in the 6 month gap in Sonic Forces. Never mind about the game itself there's some interesting stories you could tell in that time period. 

How about this? Wouldn't it be interesting? This post needs more love. It's exactly what I thought, with Sonic assumed dead, Shadow trapped in the nightmarish illusion reality, and Tails who gave up and suffered depression, it'd be interesting to see how the Resistance was made up, picking up the pieces left by the fallen heroes and still fought against Eggman and his army, despite him taking over the world.

I'd read that. I doubt it will happen though, for reasons… it's in the past now, not really relevant anymore and besides, Ian doesn't like Knuckles as a leader so I doubt he'd explore that side of the story. Then… what about a story revolving around characters created from the avatars?

Also, I agree, bring back the cast from Rush Adventure and make an arc out of it, but with new things, new plots and characters, the pirate feel was interesting enough (I know of Pirate Plunder Panic from Archie, but I meant a new main arc). We really don't need Nega the recolor, I'm okay with him being (probably) off-limits. As for other villains, Infinite will return to the games eventually, so I doubt he's off-limits forever.

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15 minutes ago, Tangled Jack said:

How about this? Wouldn't it be interesting? This post needs more love. It's exactly what I thought, with Sonic assumed dead, Shadow trapped in the nightmarish illusion reality, and Tails who gave up and suffered depression, it'd be interesting to see how the Resistance was made up, picking up the pieces left by the fallen heroes and still fought against Eggman and his army, despite him taking over the world.

Wanna point out before I answer your question. Shadow wasn't trapped in anything. Watch that DLC again. He escaped that. Infinite just hits the self destruct and then shadow isn't seen for 6 months. There is no explanation for what happens to him, and I doubt there ever will be.

Anywho, wouldn't that be interesting? To me, nah. That game did it its thing I don't think its thing is particularly that interesting, and I don't think expanding on it will make it more interesting. Its kind of a story full of holes and that interests me none. I feel similar when folks wanna go back and fix sonic 06, I don't really think there's much to gain there.

The only thing out of forces I have mild interest story telling wise is the jackal squad . But they can't use infinite and their shadow murdered the shit out of them. So i'm never getting that.

Quote

 

Also, I agree, bring back the cast from Rush Adventure and make an arc out of it, but with new things, new plots and characters, the pirate feel was interesting enough (I know of Pirate Plunder Panic from Archie, but I meant a new main arc). We really don't need Nega the recolor, I'm okay with him being (probably) off-limits. As for other villains,

I just hope sega isn't weird about it

Quote

Infinite will return to the games eventually, so I doubt he's off-limits forever.

I don't think so. I think infinite and mephilies share a two bedroom apartment in " NOPE " land.

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1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

Anywho, wouldn't that be interesting? To me, nah. That game did it its thing I don't think its thing is particularly that interesting, and I don't think expanding on it will make it more interesting. Its kind of a story full of holes and that interests me none.

Okay then, I hate plot holes, so for me, my headcanon is that he was still trapped during those months. Eh.

I assumed it wouldn't be interesting for you, because it wouldn't feature Shadow, I still respect your tastes though. That said, while I enjoy villainous and jerk Shadow as a rival, I really hope SEGA lets Ian do new things with him in future arcs… otherwise it's just repetitive and boring.

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Just now, Tangled Jack said:

Okay then, I hate plot holes, so for me, my headcanon is that he was still trapped during those months. Eh.

I mean feel free to fill in that time with whatever you want , I can't stop you. Sega certainly didn't provide you a suitable explanation

I choose to believe he went to fight some black arms that conveniently popped up for conveniently 6 months and then came back.

Just now, Tangled Jack said:

I assumed it wouldn't be interesting for you, because it wouldn't feature Shadow, I still respect your tastes though. That said, while I enjoy villainous and jerk Shadow as a rival, I really hope SEGA lets Ian do new things with him in future arcs… otherwise it's just repetitive and boring.

I like stories that don't feature shadow. This doesn't interest me none in the same way 06 doesn't in terms of fixing or expanding on it, I just don't think there is anything narrative interesting to gain. granted shadow's story in 06 is great but like... I would prefer you just steal it and retell it than go back and expand on it. Forces for me is this thing that doesn't accomplish anything narrative it sets out to do,and is largely narrative uninteresting and I don't think expanding on it makes anything from that game interesting. I just kinda pretend the game doesn't exist.

As for shadow. I dunno man, maybe. I hope they figure out people like him because he was multifaceted or at least we get some direction as to who wants him to be this and why.  While I think shadow being a rival or more so a jerk is part of why is doing what he's doing I think more so the issue is they want him to look strong. If you look at the characterization of him throughout the book its never that sonic specific. LIke even the " Cowards Run I win " line can be and  I think should be interpreted as him being angry at sonic rather than a rival thing. I think Sega just wants him to look strong, if doesn't loose he can beat stuff up even sonic and knuckles can't beat up and if he looses its because he didn't understand the situation, rather than lack of power on his part. And even then the narrative will provide qualifiers as to how cool he is even if he lost (issue 20 ) . I even think the lines people have issue with are less him being a rival and more so them not wanting him to look weak.

That's where i think the issue lies and I agree , if they don't do something about that, it will get boring...fast. Hopefully they get over that and let him be a character, but I dunno man. Maybe.

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16 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Wouldn't mind an entire arc in blaze's world, but that's just me, anyone else?

 

 

Read the last page or two.

13 hours ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

 

Even on this weeks podcast, someone asked him if he'd like to play around with the concept of Shadow owning that Dark Chao that shows up in Sonic Channel artwork all the time and he gushed about wanting to play with that dynamic... but then said that the powers that be probably wouldn't allow that considering how they want him to write Shadow. Then he moved on.

 

Oh confound it!

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13 hours ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

Even on this weeks podcast, someone asked him if he'd like to play around with the concept of Shadow owning that Dark Chao that shows up in Sonic Channel artwork all the time and he gushed about wanting to play with that dynamic... but then said that the powers that be probably wouldn't allow that considering how they want him to write Shadow. Then he moved on.

If they don’t want it canonised, then they shouldn’t have put the notion out there to begin with. derp

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