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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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Just now, Diogenes said:

Getting really bitter and reductive over someone not wanting what you want isn't going to sway anyone to your side.

 Apologies.  Its just hard to basically have someone tell you that characters you grew up reading don't deserve to exist in a medium they've flourished in anymore.

 

 But again, we won't know what's what for quite awhile.  So you are right, no need in getting in a fuss over it either way.

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10 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

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Ok so here's my stance on it. I want IDW to focus to on the game charters and also take some creative liberties with the book instead of just being 1:1 game centric. They should have their own identity while respecting the original property. I don't think I'm asking for much I just want fun Sonic comics at the end of the day. Also let's be real here when this book sells well(and it will) we're most likely gonna get a sonic spinoff book which focuses on everybody else except Sonic.  

I mean for the most part that sounds like how IDW deals with most of their comics.

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2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Again, the baggage is not just about what is canon, it's about what is in people's heads. You cannot so easily separate your understanding of the character "Sally Acorn" from her appearances in over two decades of the Archieverse.

Knuckles is a core Sonic character. He's within the top 5 core characters. He exists before and independent of Penders' fuckery. It would be strange for any Sonic-based series to not include him.

The Freedom Fighters are not core Sonic characters at all. There should be no inherent expectation for them to appear in any other work.

 

Well, they wouldn't have Sally fans breathing down their necks, expecting IDW-Sally to conform to their expectations of the character based on Archie-Sally. They'd be free to design and develop the character exactly to the needs of the story they were writing. But if they really need "Sally" that desperately they can take that risk.

Like, for a concrete example, I doubt Sega's going to go for any Sonic x Sally will-they-or-won't-they romance. So if they brought Sally into the IDWverse, that part wouldn't come along. Without that, is it still Sally? Is that actually going to make Sally fans happy? Or would they feel like they're getting a raw deal, like they were tricked into getting excited over what turned out to be a fake Sally? This is a concern worth taking seriously, and it's not one that I would want a new comic to invite on itself.

Considering that entire will they won't they romance hasn't been apart of her character for the last five years and people still enjoyed her in the New252-verse just fine because of her other personaltiy traits that weren't connected to the other characters, I think they'd be just fine. And frankly, new interpretations of old characters is a risk everything usually has to make at some point or another. For example, Looney Tunes had to do it with Lola Bunny for The Looney Tunes Show, Batman's had to retool characters several times. Once again, I'm sure Sally fans, and fans of the other characters would be perfectly fine with new interpretations as long as their personalities are kept in tact with a few changes, considering they were fine with her for the better part of five years.

6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Ah yes, that thing I didn't say. What I did say is that I think it would be harmful and that I, personally, would probably not be interested in the comic because of it, not that it'd automatically be a failure because of it.

Well, that'd be all well and good if they were a primary focus of the comic and were stealing constant focus away from the SEGA cast you would want to see, but as made explicitly clear at this point, that's not the scenario I'm even wishing for. If you'd really lose interest just for the sheer fact these characters would be introduced as not even main characters, but occasional inhabitants who may appear in a story every once in a while, then I really don't know what else to say other than I don't see why that would be enough to make you hate/not be interested in what you could potentially enjoy in this new version of the comic.

9 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Compromise, compromise, compromise, it's not like this argument determines anything about what the comic will actually be. There's no pressure on me to compromise. I'll change my mind if I'm actually given reason to believe I'm wrong.

It doesn't determine anything about what the comic will actually be, but it's a very valid argument when you're arguing characters plenty of people enjoyed should be completely removed and never appear again in this comic because you don't like them in my opinion isn't a fair stance. What I mean by this is if you don't like the FF, fine, whatever. Your opinion, and if you hope they don't appear, fine, again, whatever. But this compromise not only works on both sides and gives them both what they'd like, but once again, I'm not sure how the FF even being mentioned/introduced at some point later down the comic's line potentially would be enough to deter you from enjoying the comic if you do end up liking it. 

I don't see why it has to be flat out "They should never exist in this universe, absolutely never" just because you disliked their focus in prior comics, especially when the majority of people aren't even asking for them to be a primary focus. They'd just be satisfied with them as inhabitants of the world that Sonic and co might occasionally bump into.

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1 minute ago, Joseph Henry said:

"If I don't care about a thing, they can just throw it away! I don't care about others opinions of it, mine is what matters."

Give me a break.

Thank you!

 

And again I hate getting overly defensive.  I know media comes and goes.  But everyone has those 2-3 things they personally connect to for life.  For me the Sonic Comic has been on of those things.  Its my Football, my Star Wars.  And loosing the FF would hurt me as much as a Sports fans favorite team retiring, or Disney making a Star Wars film focusing solely on Jar Jar Binks.

 

I understand different people like the franchise for different reasons.  But me having my occasional dose of Ant, Bunnie, Rotor & Sally won't taint your dose of Sonic, Amy, Tails & Knuckles.  Both can exist without one ruining the other.

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14 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

"If I don't care about a thing, they can just throw it away! I don't care about others opinions of it, mine is what matters."

Give me a break.

Its not your opinion I don't care for. It's the argument. Ive posted mine, in fact I think most people have explained why they dont think its a good idea for archie or fleetway to somehow come back. Most seem to side with the whole want new original ideas thing.

But honestly when you post something like that all I see is someone upset that someone don't want his favourite characters in. Would be nice if someone other than Ryan actually made some attempt to challenge it other than making up stuff that was said.

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52 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

Can I say I don't understand how everyone can praise Mega Drive which took place in the game continuity, then turn around when they hear the new comic is taking place in the game continuity and go "oh it's gonna have shit stories and humour and it'll be Sonic Tails and Eggman standing around making armpit farts or something" like what the hell? 

A small side story vs outright losing everything and trudging into unknown territory and the only thing you have to go on is the current direction of the games can make think of worst-case scenarios. 

We have no idea what to expect. Megadrive was just a small thing while we waited for the main story to continue. 

 

But, you know. RIP 

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I should point one thing out. 

Do not lose hope for Sonic Overdrive. IDW still publishes stuff like TMNT Adventures, which means that there's a chance that given SEGA's permission, they could publish Overdrive, as well as a GN of the collected Mega Drive issues due to the fact it has primarily SEGA characters. Archie would have no say over if SEGA/IDW are able to do so and the creative team seems keen on getting Overdrive out, so at the very least, that's a possibility.

A smaller possibility, but still one none the less is they might even still be able to continue publishing the Post-252 Graphic Novels since SEGA owns everything featured in them, so there's still hope we could see arcs like Champions collected and released.

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Just now, Mayor D said:

Apparently it's finished. Just needs colouring... But... Its in very legal hell.

 

Also we need the conclusion to Sonic Underground if that happens =p

It was? I just assumed Archie couldn't publish it due to losing the rights. What's the legal stuff it's caught up in?

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1 minute ago, Mayor D said:

Don't know. Just seen it earlier on Tyson Twitter.

Wasn't that before the announcement with IDW though? I don't see why they couldn't publish it. I mean there's nothing in it that Archie specifically owns so...

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1 hour ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

introduce the Freedom Fighters at a later point and introduce them as "That group of friends Sonic helps on occasion when Eggman antagonises them". 

Problem is, if uh... Team Chaotix, Knuckles, Tails, maybe Silver and Blaze, maybe Sticks, maybe GUN, maybe I don't know fucking Big or the Babylon Rogues show up and they are allies of Sonic that help him when Eggman antagonises them, what's the point of the Freedom Fighters besides adding more characters than needed? They're in the same position, and ask any fan that has only played the games (like a strong part of the fanbase I presume have) and have no experience with Satam or Archie Comics since its inception if they have any clue who the Freedom Fighters are. What's best to market?

The games have always come before the comics, and unless the Freedom Fighters appear in a future Sonic game (which I doubt) then I really doubt they're coming back. It's just not marketable from SEGA's viewpoint. 

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6 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Considering that entire will they won't they romance hasn't been apart of her character for the last five years and people still enjoyed her in the New252-verse just fine because of her other personaltiy traits that weren't connected to the other characters, I think they'd be just fine.

Well, if they've already dropped it and it's gone over well enough, that's on me for not following the comics. But that was just one possible example

6 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It doesn't determine anything about what the comic will actually be, but it's a very valid argument when you're arguing characters plenty of people enjoyed should be completely removed and never appear again in this comic because you don't like them in my opinion isn't a fair stance.

We're not talking about a removal, we're talking about whether they should be included in the first place. This is slipping into thinking they're owed a place because they were in a completely separate comic.

6 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

But this compromise not only works on both sides and gives them both what they'd like,

If I thought it was giving me what I wanted I'd have no reason not to take it.

 

5 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

"If I don't care about a thing, they can just throw it away! I don't care about others opinions of it, mine is what matters."

Give me a break.

That works equally well the other way around. That you like something doesn't obligate anyone else (fans or people working on the comic) to care about it. IDW is not obligated to pick up the pieces from Archie Sonic ending just because people are upset about it.

 

4 minutes ago, Josh said:

I feel like this approach is pretty unfair though. It'd be like saying you never want Shadow to appear in the comic because they made some bad calls with him in Boom/Forces/StH. There wouldn't be any baggage at all because it's a clean slate. If you're associating them with bad shit in your own mind, that's on you. Not anyone else. There are plenty of fans that think differently.

That's not what I'm saying as far as baggage goes, though. I'm saying the people who want the characters to be included are going to have certain expectations for them, and that's extra weight that IDW doesn't need when they're trying to establish their version of the series, especially since the Archie wound will still be fresh. They're going to have their hands full already managing the core Sonic cast and establishing the setting properly.

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3 minutes ago, ElectricAngel said:

Wasn't that before the announcement with IDW though? I don't see why they couldn't publish it. I mean there's nothing in it that Archie specifically owns so...

Archie would technically own the licence to publish it right now, wouldn't they? Considering they paid Tyson to do the work and stuff. 

Also I guess the very book title would be theirs too. 

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3 minutes ago, ElectricAngel said:

Wasn't that before the announcement with IDW though? I don't see why they couldn't publish it. I mean there's nothing in it that Archie specifically owns so...

Well...

I don't know how it went down but...

Sega puts out the license.

Archie bids and gets it.

Archie pays Tyson for the work.

He gives it to Archie.

Now... even if we ignore the entire "Who else worked on everything else that makes up a page"...

We're now at an odd place of "Where is this unpublished comic... and who owns it?" And those who also worked on it/have uncompleted work done for it... how do they stand legally?

 

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Whoa i'm really happy about the announcement. IDW was the alternative everyone wanted right? Also, I see everyone is already tearing eachother up over wheter or not the new comic will use the old Archie characters.

And honestly, I doubt it. But if anyone makes it, it'll be the FF's. Don't expect them to be like the Archie version though in both personality and their role. I'm expecting this new book to focus on core Sonic Team: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy. But beyond that i'm sure they'll have plenty of stories to tell with them individually and also the rest of the Sonic extended cast. Team Chaotix, Team Dark. Silver. Blaze's world. Cream. The Babylon Rogues maybe? 

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3 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Archie would technically own the licence to publish it right now, wouldn't they? Considering they paid Tyson to do the work and stuff. 

Also I guess the very book title would be theirs too. 

 

Just now, Mayor D said:

Well...

I don't know how it went down but...

Sega puts out the license.

Archie bids and gets it.

Archie pays Tyson for the work.

He gives it to Archie.

Now... even if we ignore the entire "Who else worked on everything else that makes up a page"...

We're now at an odd place of "Where is this unpublished comic... and who owns it?" And those who also worked on it/have uncompleted work done for it... how do they stand legally?

 

Oh hm, I didn't think of it that way. I was thinking like, if Archie asked permission from SEGA to use their characters in a certain story then SEGA still owns it? But your explanations make more sense so, yeahh I guess Archie owns most of that then.

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