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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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41 minutes ago, Heckboy said:

It actually can. 

Yeah like Sega's prying eyes arent...the best all the time.

But I also feel like part of the problems is the story telling and ian seeming like hes actively trying to fight mandates, fail to do so and then has has to massively change the story to fit it.

Again it's not all him, segas... inconsistent to say the least. I don't think it excuses ian, it's just making the problems he's had as a writer, worse

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On 10/31/2019 at 10:49 PM, Almar said:

This comic will never achieve its potential as long as Ian has to write around Iizuka and Co's ridiculous decrees like Sonic living in a totally separate planet/dimension from humans.

Get over it already. It has the same restrictions as Archie so… they are just working more closely now. I think potentially there is still freedom offered, but it really depends on the case, still, I don't trust SEGA's decisions. The 2 worlds thing… I kinda don't care anymore actually, since they are making the Classic Sonic timeline a thing, plus with Blaze's dimension, this whole separation thing can be used to create a proper Sonic multiverse? I'd love that Good things can come from that, even from the 2 worlds shit.

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I wish I could see how the book is absolutely disappointing and not living up to potential because when I read it it's a fun book with great writing and characterization.

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24 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I wish I could see how the book is absolutely disappointing and not living up to potential because when I read it it's a fun book with great writing and characterization.

Well, I don't know about absolutely disappointing, so maybe you'll get your wish there.

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47 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

I wish I could see how the book is absolutely disappointing and not living up to potential because when I read it it's a fun book with great writing and characterization.

I am so sorry not everyone likes the same things you do and you let this affect your enjoyment.

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Not everyone "needs" to like it. The general consensus is still that it's awesome, and I'm glad about that, when things have actual quality in them it's only fair they get acclaimed like IDW does. It's more than deserved.

Although it's true that some of us are rather sensible and get affected by the general negativity of the thread.

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7 minutes ago, Tangled Jack said:

Not everyone "needs" to like it. The general consensus is still that it's awesome, and I'm glad about that, when things have actual quality in them it's only fair they get acclaimed like IDW does. It's more than deserved.

Although it's true that some of us are rather sensible and get affected by the general negativity of the thread.

Maybe he shouldn't be marching in here making dismissive comments because we're not a hive mind.

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I do not know about what goes on in anyone else comic store but my store is constantly struggling to keep issues in stock. Usually even by the 3rd day when I go to pick up my issue they are sold out completely. Archies book on the other hand was always stacked over even a month after it dropped.

Regardless on that I myself find the stories in this way better than anything of recent in the Archie verse which had to try to reboot itself twice. I like the darker story with small bits of comedy here and there such as omega wanting to chomp some knees. Of course after this arc I am sure there will a small slow period before the next threat pops up. Still sad they had to add the clowns that are the zetti back into the story. Otherwise I like see the heroes pushed to the edge of no hope and struggling instead of some light hearted comedy romp. Hopefully IDW keeps it up.

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20 hours ago, Heckboy said:

It actually can. 

Two worlds does nothing but limit what stories you can tell. Want to know how GUN is dealing with the Zombot apocalypse? Wondering how Eggman's actions have colored the Wisps relationship to the human population? Well too bad, those elements exist on different planets and never interacted. There's no storytelling benefit to isolating these elements, just another load of arbitrary restrictions.

Besides, the comic can only evade the issue for so long if it wants to stay generally faithful to the games. Even if you gloss over stuff like the Mystic Ruins being a train ride away from Station Square or the Master Emerald shrine in the middle of the ARK you still have stuff like GUN, which is, and will remain, an elephant the room for as long as Team Dark continues to appear. Already the cracks are starting to show, with the appearance of Central City in the current arc and what's implied to be Eggman's pyramid base from SA2 showing up in the first annual. Eventually Ian is either going to have to publish a treatise on how to make sense of this nonsense or else write off two worlds as the stupid idea it is.

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Unless I missed something, even if it's the SA2 pyramid in that Rouge story in the annual, maybe that story was set in the human world.

We still don't know how one gets from one to the other (which is still the main thing that make me actually mad about all this lol) but I guess the implication is that it's accessible / unregulated enough that literally anyone can do it? You could take the easy route and say it's warp rings and that'd be reasonable enough, but I doubt SEGA put even that much thought into it.

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53 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

Eventually Ian is either going to have to publish a treatise on how to make sense of this nonsense or else write off two worlds as the stupid idea it is.

If SEGA even allows him to when they themselves probably don't know have deep lore written down about how it works.

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9 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Unless I missed something, even if it's the SA2 pyramid in that Rouge story in the annual, maybe that story was set in the human world.

I thought it was one of the old pyramid bases from Forces?

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19 minutes ago, Celestia said:

 

We still don't know how one gets from one to the other (which is still the main thing that make me actually mad about all this lol) but I guess the implication is that it's accessible / unregulated enough that literally anyone can do it? 

That's kind of the blank space Mr. Flynn thought they'd have to float with anyway.

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34 minutes ago, Mythical Panda said:

I thought it was one of the old pyramid bases from Forces?

Honestly I agree that's likely, but it does seem more reminiscent of the SA2 one. An Egg Golem appears and everything.

e: Also it's referred to as being in what sounds like a normal desert at the start, and it doesn't look like GHZ outside. So yeah, probably not the Forces ones actually.

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45 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Honestly I agree that's likely, but it does seem more reminiscent of the SA2 one. An Egg Golem appears and everything.

e: Also it's referred to as being in what sounds like a normal desert at the start, and it doesn't look like GHZ outside. So yeah, probably not the Forces ones actually.

It's also worth noting that I believe Rough calls it AN Eggman Golem.

Because Eggman apparently wanted more than one or something.

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6 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Two worlds does nothing but limit what stories you can tell. Want to know how GUN is dealing with the Zombot apocalypse? Wondering how Eggman's actions have colored the Wisps relationship to the human population? Well too bad, those elements exist on different planets and never interacted. There's no storytelling benefit to isolating these elements, just another load of arbitrary restrictions.

Two worlds isn't necessary but also it doesn't matter. Stuff like not being able to show GUN's response to zombies or whatever doesn't prevent you from telling fun stories with the material provided. Have Sonic go on varied adventures to weird new locales and meet weird people. Just write stories that work within those mandates instead of, like Shadowlax said, fighting them and consequently being forced to change stuff.

This fandom seems to think that storytelling consists solely of referencing continuity. Flynn was able to get away with that in the old Archie continuity since he was building on 15+ years of established mythology, but now that he has to start from scratch, the weaknesses in his lore/reference-dependent writing style are starting to show. He is capable of good self-contained, episodic stories, but for some reason we keep getting stuck with sagas that spin their wheels for 10 issues - all peppered with shock value drama and forced emotional moments, and of course those epic meme references that people gobble up - that just reuse the same formula until the rushed conclusion, which always seems to boil down to a giant, unsatisfying fight sequence.

Just have Sonic go on adventures. One world, two worlds, ten worlds, it doesn't matter as long as you have fun stories. But IDW doesn't, so we're stuck with this mediocrity. 

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I'm not even sure what another organization like GUN would add to this scenario with team Sonic already acting as the military. A lot of people argue the arc already has too many players as it is and inclined to agree.  Widening the scale ecen further and creating drama with another faction wouldn't really address the issues the story has atm.

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Yeah the arc is already bloated as it is. The Zeti got introduced out of nowhere and their last appearance was basically just one page of them reiterating what they said in the previous issue. 

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10 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Two worlds does nothing but limit what stories you can tell. Want to know how GUN is dealing with the Zombot apocalypse? Wondering how Eggman's actions have colored the Wisps relationship to the human population? Well too bad, those elements exist on different planets and never interacted. There's no storytelling benefit to isolating these elements, just another load of arbitrary restrictions.

And you can do other kind of stories :

- How the human world react to all those magical elements coming from another world ? Do they see the mobian as aliens, especially after the OTHER alien invasion their world suffered ? Do some politicians use mobians as scapegoat, that would be pretty easy after what… 4 big crisis happening in their world since they started to come frequently ? (I don't count 2006 because it revoked itself).

- What are the differences of cultures and traditions between two different world (it was done better in Sonic X where the mobian world was way wilder). Has stuff that "travellers" know affected the mobian world ? (we know that they don't have money, it could become the foundation of very interesting stories

- Why did GUN not interfer during the Eggman's War in Animal World ? How will Sonic and co. react if their reason is "not our problem, won't act", especially as they saved earth a LOT of times ? As they have the mission to protect THEIR planet and that the heroes have another vision, both could clash a lot. Especially after the animal world was pretty wiped out by the zombot crisis. I think more interesting to have one camp that was tranquilly in their own world and that could get a new conflict about that in a future story, while the other world suffered two world-level crisis.

- Related to 1 and 3 : Do humans want to interfer with the another world ? Do some human see that as a new "frontier", a new "blank state" compared to their civilisation ? Do they even come into the Animal World ? We could tell a lot of stories with human coming to the animal world, either seeing themselves as "civilizators" (or entrepreneurs that see that as a big opportunity), or them being attacked because most people in Sonic's World see humans as "like Eggman" ? With going to different dimensions/planet we can do the kind of dynamics that are pretty impossible in a "near-future" world like the Human World : a place that is difficult to get with current technologies. It can be the source of a LOT of stories.

- We can extend that to mobian deciding to live in the human world : do they prefer the human world ? For what reason ? It would be even more interesting to see someone being so fed up with something in their live that they go in a completely alien world. Is adjusting to such a complex world as "our" is difficult for them ? Sonic X didn't really go into that, but they had interesting concepts about how at first people from the mobian world didn't even understand many concept of the human world, like when Robotnik told everybody to "get him see their leader" and was annoyed by such a complex way of command - and with the IDW Sonic world that just seems to have town elder and stuff like that, it seems pretty logical.

- Are the heroes the first to travel between worlds ? Do some civilisations spanned on both world ? Did Gerald travel to the mobian world ?

 

 

Basically : every world and vision that you have will both limit you and introduce new possibilities. One world create more mix-up of situations. Two worlds create more extreme differences and stories about the worlds own organisation. I think that limitations (and especially those) are mostly good for storytelling, because the writers needs to think more instead of going the easy ways. This one is just a choice of universe, that is basically nothing and just "change" the kind of stories (and by "the kind of stories", I mean basically just a very small parts of the stories).

So : yeah, some stories can't be told in this format. Some can't be told with another format. That's storytelling. The most you create a world, the most you'll be limited in the kind of stories you can tell. But at the same time, it offer new kind of stories, that are directly based on the world structure.

Said in another way : a good writer wouldn't be affected by this, and it won't change the quality of the story-building of the final product. If someone can't write good stories in a story structure that is large enough (and with many things blurry enough), whatever this structure is (yeah, I know that someone could try to get me just by showing some extreme type of world that are impossible to make stories with, but I'm not saying that I would be this "good writer" :p), I think that it's mostly them that lack a bit of imagination.

 

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