Jump to content
Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

Recommended Posts

25 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly it's not that hard for me to believe that fans jumped the gun a bit on Shadow working for GUN. As far as I can remember '06 is the only game where anything like that happens, and not only did that game un-happen, it's not really explicit about how the two are connected in the first place. He's clearly working with them at the start, but it's not clear if he's properly joined up with them or just working with them because their interests align.

GUN reappears in Sonic Chronicles but they're only conducting Rouge and not Shadow. Even if Shadow only being a temporary agent was something they decided on later it doesn't really contradict anything that happens in the games, so...yeah. Not a big deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Even if you think GUN is the only thing of value humans added its absence is still a glaring omission, considering its been an important part of Shadow and Rouge's characters since their inception and indirectly factors into Gemerl and Eggman's backstories as well. 

 

9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Yeah like , it would be inflamatory to say that they were " bad" they are just....largely uninteresting compared to everyone and thing else even the more important ones are kinda weird and have very small use cases. And then in general aesthetically I would just prefer animal people, while this military is unamed, animal military is already more interesting than gun because its run by a legion of 3foot rainbow colored weirdos.

Like while it is extremely rare, and i'm not gonna pretend it isn't to bolster my point, it baffles me to see people suggest that Shadow and the " agents of gun " should be a thing. Like do you know how much media I experience where generic ass military people are the focus , and you want that in sonic? What in the hell?

No the set up we have with this resistance is wildly more interesting and we do not need imput from a military group who's only purpose to exist is to be criticized or made to look foolish. Because that's what GUN is for, you aren't supposed to think GUN is cool

 

It's more that GUN gave Shadow and to an extent Rouge a purposeful yet flexible framework after Shadow's game--putting the past behind you to do what it takes to protect the world and all that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to look this up to confirm, but in the Expert Mode of ShTH (which, as I understand, is a marathon of all the stages in the game), there's some dialogue from the Commander where he makes peace with Shadow and invites him to his house. It can be assumed he was offered a job after that. I'm not saying it's a good explanation, but it's an explanation and it seems to be what the old comics ran with. People having that association doesn't seem too weird when other media reinforced it. The real problem was that the only evidence before 2006 came out was locked behind a challenge mode that's a pain in the ass to unlock and I doubt many people bothered with it (I didn't).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To segue back in a bit, I suppose I can agree that without characters like Hope, Madonna, or Snively, GUN is the bigger rep of non-Eggman humans that are only relevant in regards to Shadow. Thus them being relevant is partly dependent on him being a major focus.

And in the context of IDW, that shit ain't happenin.

3 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I had to look this up to confirm, but in the Expert Mode of ShTH (which, as I understand, is a marathon of all the stages in the game), there's some dialogue from the Commander where he makes peace with Shadow and invites him to his house. It can be assumed he was offered a job after that. I'm not saying it's a good explanation, but it's an explanation and it seems to be what the old comics ran with. People having that association doesn't seem too weird even if it seems random at first because the only evidence before '06 came out was locked behind a challenge mode that requires all A-ranks that I doubt many people bothered with.

Yeah, I never got around to achieving that, although it's still technically on my bucket list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

It's more that GUN gave Shadow and to an extent Rouge a purposeful yet flexible framework after Shadow's game--putting the past behind you to do what it takes to protect the world and all that.

 

I mean, that doesn't really require them working for gun. It just means if shadow see's a gun solider on the street he wont go into kill mode.

They don't require that framework, its pretty open ended the characters are a theif and a wondering warrior of justice, it just works

Also , that doesn't require that because gun was still doing ...really bad shit when shadow woke up and maybe the guy who was abused by the obvious stand in for an authoritarian government, doesn't need to team up with them. And that would play worse nowadays, and people found that shit weird then.

16 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To segue back in a bit, I suppose I can agree that without characters like Topaz, Hope, Madonna, or Snively, GUN is the bigger rep of non-Eggman humans that are only relevant in regards to Shadow. Thus them being relevant is partly dependent on him being a major focus.

I don't think even with those characters they were relevant really. I don't think people associate Snively Hope or Topaz with gun and all them could function fine with out them, to the degree in which gun may have been pushed up by them rather than the other way around. No one refers to them as gun agents or assets but rather the character themselves like rouge and shadow .And Madonna is on some literally who shit. And I would make the argument that even with them there it was only relevant to shadow, because he's why they exist. Trying to stretch them outside of that , always seemed like missing the point to me?

I feel personally even if those characters were to return they would do better to be thier own thing then shackled to gun. It served its function as an entity. Just say it got disbanded by the president off screen and let it be.

 

Quote

And in the context of IDW, that shit ain't happenin.

True

18 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I had to look this up to confirm, but in the Expert Mode of ShTH (which, as I understand, is a marathon of all the stages in the game), there's some dialogue from the Commander where he makes peace with Shadow and invites him to his house. It can be assumed he was offered a job after that. I'm not saying it's a good explanation, but it's an explanation and it seems to be what the old comics ran with. People having that association doesn't seem too weird even if it seems random at first because the only evidence before '06 came out was locked behind a challenge mode that requires all A-ranks that I doubt many people bothered with.

There's a lot of weird lore stuff in that game , some of it hidden behind the expert stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

They don't require that framework, its pretty open ended the characters are a theif and a wondering warrior of justice, it just works

Not in a while, it hasn't.

6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also , that doesn't require that because gun was still doing ...really bad shit when shadow woke up and maybe the guy who was abused by the obvious stand in for an authoritarian government, doesn't need to team up with them. And that would play worse nowadays, and people found that shit weird then.

Uh, were they? Cause it seemed like they were only overreacting once Eggman sprung Shadow and otherwise protecting the United Federation.

6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think even with those characters they were relevant really. I don't think people associate Snively Hope or Topaz with gun and all them could function fine with out them, to the degree in which gun may have been pushed up by them rather than the other way around. And Madonna is on some literally who shit. And even with them there, the reason that GUN exits is literally because of shadow, So I feel personally even if those characters were to return they would do better to be thier own thing then shackled to gun. It served its function as an entity. Just say it got disbanded by the president off screen and let it be.

 

That's sorta what I was saying though--those were interesting characters that cooperated to fill in their ranks. Admittedly, Topaz and by extension Madonna doesn't really fall into that, but still.

Without characters like them, GUN is just that military Rouge occasionally works with.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Not in a while, it hasn't.

Uh, were they? Cause it seemed like they were only overreacting once Eggman sprung Shadow and otherwise protecting the United Federation.

That's still really bad, there overreacting was still really bad.

And that's sort of the point. They are a large faceless government entity who can't think to react to anything besides being violent and locking people up. And they go back to strait doing that shit in shadow's game. Shadow needs to be better than that. And he was, until very recently.

Quote

That's sorta what I was saying though--those were interesting characters that cooperated to fill in their ranks. Admittedly, Topaz and by extension Madonna doesn't really fall into that, but still.

Without characters like them, GUN is just that military Rouge occasionally works with.

 

True facts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

There's a lot of weird lore stuff in that game , some of it hidden behind the expert stuff.

I suppose it's not nearly as bad as Eggman confirming to Shadow the one thing he wanted to know at the literal last second of the final boss.

 

 

Then again, the game (and Heroes) never seems to give the player a reason to think it isn't the same Shadow from SA2 so I never understood why they bothered with that plot thread at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Zaysho said:

I suppose it's not nearly as bad as Eggman confirming to Shadow the one thing he wanted to know at the literal last second of the final boss.

 

 

Then again, the game (and Heroes) never seems to give the player a reason to think it isn't the same Shadow from SA2 so I never understood why they bothered with that plot thread at all.

I  think at one point they wanted shadow to have his own army of converted eggman robots and like former bad people, and thread pops up in the rivals games. I think the idea was for him to, even if he wasn't feel obligated to like free former eggman robots thinking he was one. And have people who like were formally bad and wanted to be better join him. They just take off with metal sonic at the end of heroes and I just think that was the plan.

Then they dropped all that shit and was like " his dad is a demon alien actually " And then tried to pick some of it back up with metal sonic, then gave up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DabigRG said:

 

It's more that GUN gave Shadow and to an extent Rouge a purposeful yet flexible framework after Shadow's game--putting the past behind you to do what it takes to protect the world and all that.

This too of course. GUN gives Shadow a strong niche, it provides him purpose, it gives a solid basis both for Shadow to join in on Sonic's adventures and to have his own adventures with potential to provide a different perspective on the Sonic universe, and it keeps him in close proximity to Rouge which is a relationship that really helps to humanize him. Being a GUN agent also helps further Shadow as a foil to Sonic: Sonic is a free-spirit, Shadow is part of a regimented organization; Sonic shirks authority, Shadow represents authority; Sonic is driven by his own thirst for adventure, Shadow is driven by duty to a higher cause. In a lot of ways joining GUN was the best thing to happen to Shadow's character since SA2. If nothing else it gave his character a clear direction after his amnesia arc resolved, unlike Tails who's character has been more or less stuck in limbo since the Adventure games.

 

11 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly it's not that hard for me to believe that fans jumped the gun a bit on Shadow working for GUN. As far as I can remember '06 is the only game where anything like that happens, and not only did that game un-happen, it's not really explicit about how the two are connected in the first place. He's clearly working with them at the start, but it's not clear if he's properly joined up with them or just working with them because their interests align.

In fairness '06 was also his last significant appearance until Forces so it's less like fans cherry picked a one-off element and more like they spent eleven years assuming that was his new status quo. Plus his car in SaASRT prominently features the GUN logo and has a similar aesthetic to their robots, so it's not as if there's been nothing to reinforce the idea of him being an agent since '06:

Image result for sasrt Shadow

Even in Forces kind of runs with it, even though GUN isn't mentioned by name, given that he and Rouge talk like they're part of some military/spy organization even before the Resistance is formed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The question of who Shadow and Rouge report to is just an example of how Team Iizuka acts when it comes to the setting. It's obvious they're trying to sneakily sweep under the rug elements like GUN, but at the same time try to take advantage of past continuity by alluding to pre-Unleashed games (in this case, Team Dark's secret agent work). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

This too of course. GUN gives Shadow a strong niche, it provides him purpose, it gives a solid basis both for Shadow to join in on Sonic's adventures and to have his own adventures with potential to provide a different perspective on the Sonic universe, and it keeps him in close proximity to Rouge which is a relationship that really helps to humanize him.

He can just go out on adventures to help people and GUN isn't why, and rouge could just be a person he keeps in contact with

Quote

 

Being a GUN agent also helps further Shadow as a foil to Sonic: Sonic is a free-spirit, Shadow is part of a regimented organization; Sonic shirks authority, Shadow represents authority; Sonic is driven by his own thirst for adventure, Shadow is driven by duty to a higher cause. In a lot of ways joining GUN was the best thing to happen to Shadow's character since SA2. If nothing else it gave his character a clear direction after his amnesia arc resolved, unlike Tails who's spent most his time since SA1 either who's character has been more or less stuck in limbo since the Adventure games.

The issue with this entire thought process is that shadow could be more regimented, by himself. Those characters exist, infact one of the most famous characters in the modern history of fiction who happens to be one of the most famous rivals to another character in modern fiction

His name is batman, it isn't that hard. He can just be a guy who does shit by himself.

Quote

In fairness '06 was also his last significant appearance until Forces so it's less like fans cherry picked a one-off element and more like they spent eleven years assuming that was his new status quo.

Eh, no a bunch of fans didn't go with it and actively didn't like it. Sonic 06 is one of the most awful games in the modern sonic canon, and retcons itself, there are a bunch of people who disregard everything that happens in that game in entierty. Heck even the game does that by retconning two characters entire stories after the fact. And retconning itself . And actually he was in games afterwards one in which gun is in it and they don't talk to him, they talk to rouge.

Ya'll cherry picked a thing

To be blunt and I'm criticizing myself here too, I feel as though sometimes the hardcore sonic fanbase forgets 06 was a dumpster fire that most people including the people who made the game disregard and probably don't consider anything from that game relavnt to any character, setting, plot, game , or anything happening in the modern day. Because its literally so bad that it forced the franchise to change corse

Quote

Plus his car in SaASRT prominently features the GUN logo and has a similar aesthetic to their robots, so it's not as if there's been nothing to reinforce the idea of him being an agent since '06:

Image result for sasrt Shadow

Shadow , much like in his game probably stole that car. He stole the bike he has too.

Quote

Even in Forces kind of runs with it, even though GUN isn't mentioned by name, given that he and Rouge talk like they're part of some military/spy organization even before the Resistance is formed. 

Or shadow's a hard ass and that's how he talks.

" He's serious so he uses phrases like ' mission' and 'attack formation' " you know how robin does in the TT because he's raised by batman

I think a bunch of people got gooofed really hard because sega can't tell stories

 

 

1 hour ago, Almar said:

The question of who Shadow and Rouge report to is just an example of how Team Iizuka acts when it comes to the setting. It's obvious they're trying to sneakily sweep under the rug elements like GUN, but at the same time try to take advantage of past continuity by alluding to pre-Unleashed games (in this case, Team Dark's secret agent work). 

Anyone who would want to know what's up with eggman, considering he's a menace I could quite literally be anyone. Heck if you want to assume what would become the resistance existed before forces in some capcity, he could literally be just be giving information to amy.

I think they are just using that lingo because they are supposed to be more " serious " and going on a mission

I feel like if you think about this as " Oh wait this a franchise for children " it makes sense.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some release date changes:

Tangle & Whisper 4 has been pushed back to 4 December, and Sonic 24 has been pushed back to...Christmas Day. Dunno how that’s gonna work.

EDIT: and the Tangle & Whisper box set has vanished.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mythical Panda said:

Tangle & Whisper 4 has been pushed back to 4 December, and Sonic 24 has been pushed back to...Christmas Day. Dunno how that’s gonna work.

It'll likely be releasing Christmas Eve/Christmas Week I'd imagine. DC pulls the same stunt so they can have their heavy hitters releasing on Christmas Week, and then that ups their profits for a certain month. Off the top of my head, Batman Last Knight on Earth's final issue received a massive delay til this Christmas release date for the same reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

That wasn't called for just because you didn't get the answer you wanted to whatever vague question you asked.

It was supposed to be a playful dipper, but then I remembered Gravity Falls.

But you're right, I apologize. 

As an assuage, I found the solicit.

Quote

IDW23CoverARaw                                                     IDWSonic 23B Artwork

"The Last Minute," Part Three! Sonic has been infected by the Metal Virus, and so far the only thing keeping him from going full-on zombot is his incredible speed... but how long can that last? As Sonic pushes himself to his limits gathering data for Tails, he comes face-to-face with the one problem more important than the Metal Virus: its creator, Dr. Eggman.

Oh, Sonic and Eggman finally face off again. Maybe things will go somewhere now, but Whisper has been the stronger story thus far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.