Jump to content
Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Almar said:

Sure it does. If they're going to pretend the games before Unleashed all happened then they need to address their showings of humans with the lack of legit separation between funny animals and funny humans. It'd be different if they just flat-out said the games from Unleashed onward were a reboot with the games before not in the timeline anymore, but they didn't since they have bits like Sonic's reaction to Chaos in Forces and whatever happens with Shadow that play on illusions of connections.

Again, there have only been 6 humans that ever mattered, being unable to create more for the comic means nothing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By that argument you shouldn't include funny animals besides Sonic and his friends since the icon/actually highly regarded games (the Genesis Era, Adventures 1-2, Unleashed, Mania) didn't include all that many either per game and were either minimalist (so Sonic didn't interact with civilians) or just had humans be the civilians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I pointed out it does if Ian ever wishes to write stories that incorporates elements (namely the humans besides Eggman and their lands) from the pre-Unleashed games in a notable way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Ian said on the most recent Bumblekast that he considers the Central City from Adventure 2 and the Central City from Sonic Battle with Tails' house in it, two different cities.

Because more than one city can be called Central City. Kind of like how there's more than one London and more than one Paris.

That's the kind of point that is true if we are talking about the real world, but I really don't see why he did that in a fantastic world. I don't blame him though : it's a choice that can makes sense (I would name the two city differently though, maybe with saying that the mention of Central City in Shadow was just a level name and not the city name - except if it's mentionned in a cutscene, that I really don't remember).

But eh, it's just for the moment my pet peeves. It'll certainly go away the day Flynn can show his human world, if he ever can… But I don't think that the ST would really be angry about that, they seems to be mostly about characters than lore, so it might be possible.

2 hours ago, Almar said:

He's not though. Sonic was established from the start as being a hedgehog who acts like a human (Sonic 1's JP commercial even had him moonwalking and breakdancing in a modern city) who even was planned to have Madonna as a ladyfriend. His adventures started in Oceania and his opening level was a wacky California. The works which weren't vidya games that had enough involvement from SoJ like Sonic OVA or Man of the Year showed Sonic as interacing with demihumans (if not humans).

We see no solid evidence that anthros and humans behave differently or had a segregation (Sandoplis from Sonic and Knuckles would hint at humans and Echidnas both living on Angel Islan). Point is, "Sonic as alien" was more of a weird Western interpretation that had a bone thrown to it in Sonic X.

Well, I technically don't really have to answer that as my point wasn't that "Sonic was alien/mythical before", but that you loose that imagery in the story context you say possible with just continent separation. Remember that originally my point was telling what kind of story can be done in a better way with two-world, not what "Sonic is supposed to be".

I don't really care about "what was first". We have enough of our version of "back to the roots" in Sonic like that for me, so just going back to "what was Sonic before" isn't for me that relevant, especially with such a rich history (that's why I don't want Sonic to be a rendition of "funny 90' earth", especially the "90" parts, which would just participate to make Sonic less and less relevant, exactly like the current "nostalgia" trend in the IP is doing). For me, in the first games, the "anthros" wasn't supposed to be really anything important, it was just a way to represent the main characters. The first games didn't have stuff like "anthro civilisations" and stuff like that, and only showed the main/important characters as anthro (and some statues because artistic stuff). It was a bit of a bugs-bunny-like worlds. But I don't feel that we should work only with this way.

What I personnally want is interesting stories and that they start to build something. The foundation is mostly a point of detail, as there are so many friggin foundation possible with the weird-but-interesting interpretations of this saga.

10 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

https://www.deviantart.com/majinssketchbook/art/Sonic-World-Map-748463079

How about we use this map? It's beautiful and pays homage to ALL the games.

Sonic's world is just one animal continent, and all the other continents (from SA and Sonic Unleashed) are human.

I still feel that it would make many stuff awkward. One world needs more mixed location/place to be interesting. For me, about that, the really best one-world interpretation was Flynn's in ArchieComics second timeline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kazhnuz said:

That's the kind of point that is true if we are talking about the real world, but I really don't see why he did that in a fantastic world. I don't blame him though : it's a choice that can makes sense (I would name the two city differently though, maybe with saying that the mention of Central City in Shadow was just a level name and not the city name - except if it's mentionned in a cutscene, that I really don't remember).

But eh, it's just for the moment my pet peeves. It'll certainly go away the day Flynn can show his human world, if he ever can… But I don't think that the ST would really be angry about that, they seems to be mostly about characters than lore, so it might be possible.

I don't see why that would stop being the case in a fantasy world. Also, he did it because he wanted to include the cute little house from Sonic Battle in the story. If he can do that with an out for why it isn't the human world, of course he's going to take it. 

While Ian does have a lot more freedom than your average writer for something like this, the fact that he's having to work around it at all just exemplifies some of the frustration that comes along with keeping them seperate. 

Despite this supposedly being a thing, the games themselves aren't even interested in properly handling it. Even during the time where they gave a shit about story, it never came up. I'm gonna need some heavy convincing from the material itself in order to see the merit to it. As of now, it's just been a sea of confusion and hindrances. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My favorite World Map idea is still the one from Archie, and an old role play in my team's italian Sonic forum: basically it's the continents from Unleashed with the fantasy zones in them. I loved that idea, it blends the best out of the "2 worlds" into one.

They were setting that up in Archie, shame to see it go. Although I don't mind the current animal world.

I'm pretty sure the 2 worlds are based on respectively Unleashed and Forces, since those are the only games which don't feature hidden floating islands, outer space planets, storybooks or time travel, I appreciate that they actually took time to explore their world and sorta flesh it out. So if Ian were to expand and deepen the map, it should be based on those games IMO, Forces is the best fit for the animal world as the game really focuses on the mobians outside of the Sonic gang, something I've been wanting for a long time, I just wish it happened with a better quality game, eh.

This is one reason I don't mind the comic being inspired by Forces, it had its good ideas (if you take away Classic Sonic's pointless inclusion and more shit), it had a Whole world of storytelling possibilities which weren't used at all, so instead of retelling Forces, we are actually getting new stories with that cool setting, and it's why I'm loving the comic.

Like anthros, wispons, the rebuilding after the war, the consequences of Eggman's defeat, exploring and saving villages and other cool places, at first it didn't look like Ian was doing actual world building but now he does, we just need a better world map and not some crap drawn by a 6 year old (no offense, Cream/David Mariotte). I want to see Mystic Jungle, Chemical Plant, Metropolis and more zones from Sonic's past and maybe some original ones that fit into the animal world. What do you guys think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Elements like what?

G.U.N. and literally nothing else?

There's nothing of note that requires the humans to be acknowledged.

Even if you think GUN is the only thing of value humans added its absence is still a glaring omission, considering its been an important part of Shadow and Rouge's characters since their inception and indirectly factors into Gemerl and Eggman's backstories as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

...and indirectly factors into Gemerl and Eggman's backstories as well. 

It's completely incidental to Eggman's backstory, he looks up to his grandfather as a great scientist, G.U.N. has nothing to do with that. The fact he died by them isn't the part that matters to Eggman.

It's omission is mindsplitting...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bowbowis said:

Even if you think GUN is the only thing of value humans added its absence is still a glaring omission, considering its been an important part of Shadow and Rouge's characters since their inception and indirectly factors into Gemerl and Eggman's backstories as well. 

Shadow and gemerl involving gun that story is done and rouge according to sega doesn't actually work for them

And eggman doesn't care

They don't add anything of value today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, a bit of off-topic: Ian Flynn is creating his own online science-fantasy comic series, Drogune! It seems a really important project for him and Adam Bryce Thomas. Please support them by becoming a patreon if you can!

https://www.patreon.com/drogune

http://www.drogune.com/

I usually don't do advertising but I'm intrigued by this project, and I'm trying to support Ian and ABT in some way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Almar said:

"humans were never good so retcon them away" is just toady talk.

I not so much that I think the Human Characters are bad it's just they weren't particularly interesting. I just don't care what the President or the GUN Commander or Princess Elise are up to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

I not so much that I think the Human Characters are bad it's just they weren't particularly interesting. I just don't care what the President or the GUN Commander or Princess Elise are up to.

Yeah like , it would be inflamatory to say that they were " bad" they are just....largely uninteresting compared to everyone and thing else even the more important ones are kinda weird and have very small use cases. And then in general aesthetically I would just prefer animal people, while this military is unamed, animal military is already more interesting than gun because its run by a legion of 3foot rainbow colored weirdos.

Like while it is extremely rare, and i'm not gonna pretend it isn't to bolster my point, it baffles me to see people suggest that Shadow and the " agents of gun " should be a thing. Like do you know how much media I experience where generic ass military people are the focus , and you want that in sonic? What in the hell?

No the set up we have with this resistance is wildly more interesting and we do not need imput from a military group who's only purpose to exist is to be criticized or made to look foolish. Because that's what GUN is for, you aren't supposed to think GUN is cool

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I not so much that I think the Human Characters are bad it's just they weren't particularly interesting. I just don't care what the President or the GUN Commander or Princess Elise are up to.

The only interesting humans for me was not Chris, not Elise, not Maria, but the citizens of Station Square. It was such a nice touch to see their stories evolve as the we evolve in the main story at the same time...

tumblr_inline_pi5wp9dDn31seto0f_640.png

Example: the twins (next text is from https://speeps-highway.tumblr.com)

One twinc cares about the plane more than Tails and eavesdrops on Sonic’s conversation with him, then has a generally shitty vacation that involves being weirded out by story events (Froggy, Egg Carrier) and gambling away all her money at Casinopolis.

She tries to leave after the missile freaks her out, but instead suffers a breakdown on the station platform.

The other twin is friendlier to everyone (Concerned about Tails, talks about hugging Chao, likes Station Square) but she’s a bitch to her sister when she loses her money and gets stuck at the train station.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Shadow and gemerl involving gun that story is done and rouge according to sega doesn't actually work for them

But of course they say that. Next I imagine they'll tell us Eggman would never try to kill anyone, "Ultimate Life-Form" is just a title Shadow gave himself because he's an arrogant douche, and Knuckles was never guardian of the Master Emerald.

In other news: Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

 

10 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

They don't add anything of value today.

Only if you don't bother using them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

But of course they say that. Next I imagine they'll tell us Eggman would never try to kill anyone, "Ultimate Life-Form" is just a title Shadow gave himself because he's an arrogant douche, and Knuckles was never guardian of the Master Emerald.

In other news: Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

Honestly it's not that hard for me to believe that fans jumped the gun a bit on Shadow working for GUN. As far as I can remember '06 is the only game where anything like that happens, and not only did that game un-happen, it's not really explicit about how the two are connected in the first place. He's clearly working with them at the start, but it's not clear if he's properly joined up with them or just working with them because their interests align.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Bowbowis said:

But of course they say that. Next I imagine they'll tell us Eggman would never try to kill anyone, "Ultimate Life-Form" is just a title Shadow gave himself because he's an arrogant douche, and Knuckles was never guardian of the Master Emerald.

In other news: Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

I mean yeah, they control the canon. One day sonic characters in general will be unrecognizable to us.

I think that knuckles thing is actually gonna happen though

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly it's not that hard for me to believe that fans jumped the gun a bit on Shadow working for GUN. As far as I can remember '06 is the only game where anything like that happens, and not only did that game un-happen, it's not really explicit about how the two are connected in the first place. He's clearly working with them at the start, but it's not clear if he's properly joined up with them or just working with them because their interests align.

Yeah this

Also a lot of people didn't like that, so I find that clarification was only met with " Oh cool " the only people who seem upset with that are the people who think team dark is this family that lives at gun. And I feel to have that take you are already ignoring a lot about the characters involved already

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Honestly it's not that hard for me to believe that fans jumped the gun a bit on Shadow working for GUN. As far as I can remember '06 is the only game where anything like that happens, and not only did that game un-happen, it's not really explicit about how the two are connected in the first place. He's clearly working with them at the start, but it's not clear if he's properly joined up with them or just working with them because their interests align.

GUN reappears in Sonic Chronicles but they're only conducting Rouge and not Shadow. Even if Shadow only being a temporary agent was something they decided on later it doesn't really contradict anything that happens in the games, so...yeah. Not a big deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

Even if you think GUN is the only thing of value humans added its absence is still a glaring omission, considering its been an important part of Shadow and Rouge's characters since their inception and indirectly factors into Gemerl and Eggman's backstories as well. 

 

9 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Yeah like , it would be inflamatory to say that they were " bad" they are just....largely uninteresting compared to everyone and thing else even the more important ones are kinda weird and have very small use cases. And then in general aesthetically I would just prefer animal people, while this military is unamed, animal military is already more interesting than gun because its run by a legion of 3foot rainbow colored weirdos.

Like while it is extremely rare, and i'm not gonna pretend it isn't to bolster my point, it baffles me to see people suggest that Shadow and the " agents of gun " should be a thing. Like do you know how much media I experience where generic ass military people are the focus , and you want that in sonic? What in the hell?

No the set up we have with this resistance is wildly more interesting and we do not need imput from a military group who's only purpose to exist is to be criticized or made to look foolish. Because that's what GUN is for, you aren't supposed to think GUN is cool

 

It's more that GUN gave Shadow and to an extent Rouge a purposeful yet flexible framework after Shadow's game--putting the past behind you to do what it takes to protect the world and all that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to look this up to confirm, but in the Expert Mode of ShTH (which, as I understand, is a marathon of all the stages in the game), there's some dialogue from the Commander where he makes peace with Shadow and invites him to his house. It can be assumed he was offered a job after that. I'm not saying it's a good explanation, but it's an explanation and it seems to be what the old comics ran with. People having that association doesn't seem too weird when other media reinforced it. The real problem was that the only evidence before 2006 came out was locked behind a challenge mode that's a pain in the ass to unlock and I doubt many people bothered with it (I didn't).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To segue back in a bit, I suppose I can agree that without characters like Hope, Madonna, or Snively, GUN is the bigger rep of non-Eggman humans that are only relevant in regards to Shadow. Thus them being relevant is partly dependent on him being a major focus.

And in the context of IDW, that shit ain't happenin.

3 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I had to look this up to confirm, but in the Expert Mode of ShTH (which, as I understand, is a marathon of all the stages in the game), there's some dialogue from the Commander where he makes peace with Shadow and invites him to his house. It can be assumed he was offered a job after that. I'm not saying it's a good explanation, but it's an explanation and it seems to be what the old comics ran with. People having that association doesn't seem too weird even if it seems random at first because the only evidence before '06 came out was locked behind a challenge mode that requires all A-ranks that I doubt many people bothered with.

Yeah, I never got around to achieving that, although it's still technically on my bucket list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

 

It's more that GUN gave Shadow and to an extent Rouge a purposeful yet flexible framework after Shadow's game--putting the past behind you to do what it takes to protect the world and all that.

 

I mean, that doesn't really require them working for gun. It just means if shadow see's a gun solider on the street he wont go into kill mode.

They don't require that framework, its pretty open ended the characters are a theif and a wondering warrior of justice, it just works

Also , that doesn't require that because gun was still doing ...really bad shit when shadow woke up and maybe the guy who was abused by the obvious stand in for an authoritarian government, doesn't need to team up with them. And that would play worse nowadays, and people found that shit weird then.

16 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

To segue back in a bit, I suppose I can agree that without characters like Topaz, Hope, Madonna, or Snively, GUN is the bigger rep of non-Eggman humans that are only relevant in regards to Shadow. Thus them being relevant is partly dependent on him being a major focus.

I don't think even with those characters they were relevant really. I don't think people associate Snively Hope or Topaz with gun and all them could function fine with out them, to the degree in which gun may have been pushed up by them rather than the other way around. No one refers to them as gun agents or assets but rather the character themselves like rouge and shadow .And Madonna is on some literally who shit. And I would make the argument that even with them there it was only relevant to shadow, because he's why they exist. Trying to stretch them outside of that , always seemed like missing the point to me?

I feel personally even if those characters were to return they would do better to be thier own thing then shackled to gun. It served its function as an entity. Just say it got disbanded by the president off screen and let it be.

 

Quote

And in the context of IDW, that shit ain't happenin.

True

18 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

I had to look this up to confirm, but in the Expert Mode of ShTH (which, as I understand, is a marathon of all the stages in the game), there's some dialogue from the Commander where he makes peace with Shadow and invites him to his house. It can be assumed he was offered a job after that. I'm not saying it's a good explanation, but it's an explanation and it seems to be what the old comics ran with. People having that association doesn't seem too weird even if it seems random at first because the only evidence before '06 came out was locked behind a challenge mode that requires all A-ranks that I doubt many people bothered with.

There's a lot of weird lore stuff in that game , some of it hidden behind the expert stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

They don't require that framework, its pretty open ended the characters are a theif and a wondering warrior of justice, it just works

Not in a while, it hasn't.

6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also , that doesn't require that because gun was still doing ...really bad shit when shadow woke up and maybe the guy who was abused by the obvious stand in for an authoritarian government, doesn't need to team up with them. And that would play worse nowadays, and people found that shit weird then.

Uh, were they? Cause it seemed like they were only overreacting once Eggman sprung Shadow and otherwise protecting the United Federation.

6 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't think even with those characters they were relevant really. I don't think people associate Snively Hope or Topaz with gun and all them could function fine with out them, to the degree in which gun may have been pushed up by them rather than the other way around. And Madonna is on some literally who shit. And even with them there, the reason that GUN exits is literally because of shadow, So I feel personally even if those characters were to return they would do better to be thier own thing then shackled to gun. It served its function as an entity. Just say it got disbanded by the president off screen and let it be.

 

That's sorta what I was saying though--those were interesting characters that cooperated to fill in their ranks. Admittedly, Topaz and by extension Madonna doesn't really fall into that, but still.

Without characters like them, GUN is just that military Rouge occasionally works with.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Not in a while, it hasn't.

Uh, were they? Cause it seemed like they were only overreacting once Eggman sprung Shadow and otherwise protecting the United Federation.

That's still really bad, there overreacting was still really bad.

And that's sort of the point. They are a large faceless government entity who can't think to react to anything besides being violent and locking people up. And they go back to strait doing that shit in shadow's game. Shadow needs to be better than that. And he was, until very recently.

Quote

That's sorta what I was saying though--those were interesting characters that cooperated to fill in their ranks. Admittedly, Topaz and by extension Madonna doesn't really fall into that, but still.

Without characters like them, GUN is just that military Rouge occasionally works with.

 

True facts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.