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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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1 minute ago, dbzfan7 said:

I am being facetious.

Fair enough. But I do recall that being a point of complaint for people, so I just needed to point out the focus went beyond just Shadow and Knuckles.

Although covers like this don't exactly help that perception huh

325?cb=20150114152844

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4 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I mean, even Sonic Universe had that issue of having very flat ending after three issues of buildup; maybe 5 issues would be better?

I think Flynn is kinda not great at ending stories sometimes.

Sometimes it was the length a lotta to be continued that got gotten to. But one of the examples I like to bring up is the knuckles shadow story with the ...grimlin dude, nickle or whatever. I forget his name and don't care to google. Knuckles reflects on shadow's words, gets a pep talk from amy and improves his islands defenses. While knuckles was involved and had some dialog in the previous story it was still kinda shadow-ey focused. This story while shadow was there, is mostly about knuckles and his growth and actualization he achieves . And then flynn just jumps to sonic giving his take on the situation and it kinda ruins it. I don't give a shit about what sonic thinks or whatever excuse he comes up with to bother guy who grew up on an island by himself lacks some social skills and doesn't like being teased. Leave  knuckles alone and let him have this, why do you need to even do that.

Ian Flynn stories on both large and small scales are full of " one sentence too far situations that just kinda leave the entire scenario flat "  or telling too much story to fit in four issues. The latter can be solved with the mini series system, you can just...make more miniseries if profits justify it. The former takes restraint

He may be learning though, I think the tangle an issue thing ends generally fine. Though I could make the argument... like it could have been three issues.

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1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

Fair enough. But I do recall that being a point of complaint for people, so I just needed to point out the focus went beyond just Shadow and Knuckles.

Although covers like this don't exactly help that perception huh

325?cb=20150114152844

I love how big Tikal is when she barely showed up.

That's something else I miss--the dynamic covers.

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3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I think Flynn is kinda not great at ending stories sometimes.

Sometimes it was the length a lotta to be continued that got gotten to. But one of the examples I like to bring up is the knuckles shadow story with the ...grimlin dude, nickle or whatever. I forget his name and don't care to google. Knuckles reflects on shadow's words, gets a pep talk from amy and improves his islands defenses. While knuckles was involved and had some dialog in the previous story it was still kinda shadow-ey focused. This story while shadow was there, is mostly about knuckles and his growth and actualization he achieves . And then flynn just jumps to sonic giving his take on the situation and it kinda ruins it. I don't give a shit about what sonic thinks or whatever excuse he comes up with to bother guy who grew up on an island by himself lacks some social skills and doesn't like being teased. Leave  knuckles alone and let him have this, why do you need to even do that.

Ian Flynn stories on both large and small scales are full of " one sentence too far situations that just kinda leave the entire scenario flat "  or telling too much story to fit in four issues. The latter can be solved with the mini series system, you can just...make more miniseries if profits justify it. The former takes restraint

This has nothing to do with what I was talking about. 

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2 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Sometimes it was the length a lotta to be continued that got gotten to. But one of the examples I like to bring up is the knuckles shadow story with the ...grimlin dude, nickle or whatever. I forget his name and don't care to google. Knuckles reflects on shadow's words, gets a pep talk from amy and improves his islands defenses. While knuckles was involved and had some dialog in the previous story it was still kinda shadow-ey focused. This story while shadow was there, is mostly about knuckles and his growth and actualization he achieves . And then flynn just jumps to sonic giving his take on the situation and it kinda ruins it. I don't give a shit about what sonic thinks or whatever excuse he comes up with to bother guy who grew up on an island by himself lacks some social skills and doesn't like being teased. Leave  knuckles alone and let him have this, why do you need to even do that.

 

Oh yeah, that's one of the examples I mentioned earlier.

Naugus was a troll, btw. You might be recalling of Nixus the Echidna, funnily enough.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Oh yeah, that's one of the examples I mentioned earlier.

Naugus was a troll, btw. You might be recalling of Nixus the Echidna, funnily enough.

The one that disguised himself as a echinda.

I never liked those things

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3 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

"Who you callin a thing?"

sad-troll_3558267.jpg

Also, he was a major villain preboot.

Oh I know. I hated him then, I found his design lame and his whole vibe uninteresting. There's a lot of things i'm not fond of in sonic introduced in multiple media. A lot of those exist in the comics, but i'm kind a willing to live and let live.

I legit hate those things man. Like they look like some shit from banjo kazooie its so...un sonic-ey to me it hurts

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Adding my thoughts to the table,  and leaving out my Amy and Shadow complaints as best I can (though I'm actually good with Shadow right now after some serious thinking about his character), I can say that while I've enjoyed the comic so far, I do think it's primary weakness is pacing.

We know that Flynn wanted to focus more on stories and action than world building, but for me that has hurt the comic a lot. While I don't mind the nebulous and open possibilities of the world not being heavily established on a global scale, the lack of world building hits hardest for me in character establishment. As character driven stories have always been my preference compared to plot driven, I find myself a lot of times struggling to figure out who these characters are supposed to be. The exceptions are Tangle and Whisper who of course just had a miniseries focused on them and the other are the Chaotix. I'm not sure if it's just because they aren't primary plot characters so they are allowed to breath, or if it's something else. Unlike the majority of the rest of the cast every appearance made by the Chaotix has been used to build upon their characters and response to the world, plot, and other characters. In contrast the other characters feel like they are being remote controlled by the plot and lack any personal agency and feel unnatural. Even when Restoration HQ fell the Chaotix were still going through their own story arc and demonstrating who they are as characters. On a whole they are probably my favorite characters in the comic so far because of that.

Regardless of my primary complaints on characters though, I've enjoyed the comic as a whole even as the current arc has grown monotonous for me. I am concerned about the Chaos Emeralds being their get out of jail free card, even if they have to work for them as it cheapens the victory for me. The idea of Tails successfully constructing a cure and then the subsequent battle to be able to manufacture and distribute it would have been more rewarding for me than turning the Chaos Emeralds into the Dragon Balls. Ultimately, I feel like I probably enjoyed the comic more in a weekly format just as it gave the story and characters time together to get focus. As a result I think I'm mostly still along for the ride because of the flashes of brilliance that have given me hope that the series can be the definitive Sonic media for me. It's just a matter of moving out of this plot driven period for me and the comic giving more characters than just the Chaotix room to breath and show us who they are.

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People always talk about Sonic arcs falling flat at the ending but can I be honest? I don't see it. Maybe some don't work as well as others but I've honestly never felt disappointed by an ending to any arc Ian's done.

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I kinda like that the platypus begin to realize how much of a clown fiesta actually are the execution of Eggman's plans and a usual clash between him and Sonic. I don't know if It was intended, but also appreciate that the full cast stay true to their respective game characters, in such a way It's hard to tell whether they're less dumber than on videogames or not. 

And Amy chewing more than She can swallow in regards of Upper Management lol, oughta be damning knux for pretty much ditching his role in the resistance. The only thing all these rescue and evacuation shenanigans have been put to use in the script so far is to convey how one sided has escalated the conflict, although the execution was kinda silly and highly derivative.

Also the shallow worldbuilding is starting to hold back the arc IMO.

So this is pretty much Flynn's writing? Archie scale plot conflicts?. First time I have read anything related to sonic comics, just curious why some ppl were yearning for him being part of a sonic's game writing staff.

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1 minute ago, Ricochet said:

So this is pretty much Flynn's writing? Archie scale plot conflicts?. First time I have read anything related to sonic comics, just curious why some ppl were yearning for him being part of a sonic's game writing staff.

Because for better or for worse - he has a far better grip on the characters, their personalities, and their dynamics more than any writer on Sonic has really shown, along with Hesse's version of Classic Sonic/Knuckles/Tails in Mania. 

Given that the modern games tend to have awful plot lines mixed in with bad humour topped with crap character writing the majority of the time, having Ian on board would at least mean having good character writing, and good humour. Hell, even the Zombot virus arc is better than any "major" world-ending story we've got in the games in years, flaws and all. 

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8 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Oh I know. I hated him then, I found his design lame and his whole vibe uninteresting. There's a lot of things i'm not fond of in sonic introduced in multiple media. A lot of those exist in the comics, but i'm kind a willing to live and let live.

I legit hate those things man. Like they look like some shit from banjo kazooie its so...un sonic-ey to me it hurts

Oooh, okay that adds up better.

Banjo Kazooie? :lol:

8 hours ago, Heckboy said:

It's a shame Tails never got to fight Naugus.

It is a bit odd. 

Reminds me that there was a rejected/unused alternate story where he would've killed Merlin in the process of retrieving the Prowers from space. 

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7 hours ago, Ricochet said:

 

And Amy chewing more than She can swallow in regards of Upper Management lol, oughta be damning knux for pretty much ditching his role in the resistance. The only thing all these rescue and evacuation shenanigans have been put to use in the script so far is to convey how one sided has escalated the conflict, although the execution was kinda silly and highly derivative.

Amy turned out to be the "real" leader of the Resistance, which came about because people questioned Knuckles being in the role. While that went in hand with giving her a convenient role for the comic, they also neglected to really do much with her there on top of this widespread arc happening so soon. Part 2 of the finale will possibly account for that, but who knows. 

 

Quote

Also the shallow worldbuilding is starting to hold back the arc IMO.

So this is pretty much Flynn's writing? Archie scale plot conflicts?. 

This story was originally conceived under Archie years ago and sent through different postpones until it was close to being approved for the post300 issues. 

And after having the sleight involuntarily wiped clean twice(thrice if you want count Megaman being on indefinite hiatus with slim chances), he just opted to a more straightforward case by case approach under IDW.

Fun fact: He was surprised when SonicTeam(including Iuzuka himself) not only greenlit this story, but made further suggestions. 

7 hours ago, Ricochet said:

 First time I have read anything related to sonic comics, just curious why some ppl were yearning for him being part of a sonic's game writing staff.

Because he is a essentially a fan who worked his way into working on Archie, did quite a bit fun rerailing and revitalization there, and as a result built up a pretty good reputation among fans and even some higher ups. 

Including what Ryan said, which was partly due to the writers of many of the decades games just being TV show writers with little knowledge of the franchise.  

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47 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I thought people were wanting this comic to do its own thing at the end of the day.

I did. This just sucks. I explained why. Being "original" doesn't automatically mean it's good.

48 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Flaws and all, it’s still leagues better than what the games have been putting out in the past decade.

Sonic fans really just have no standards for anything, huh.

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1 minute ago, Heckboy said:

I did. This just sucks. I explained why. Being "original" doesn't automatically mean it's good.

It doesn't mean it's automatically good, this comic proved to be its own thing and to be pretty good.

Quote

Sonic fans really just have no standards for anything, huh.

That's just an excuse for not being happy in my opinion. It has flaws and all but it's still great.

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Just now, Jack in Space said:

It doesn't mean it's automatically good, this comic proved to be its own thing and to be pretty good.

CSS was saying that "people" wanted the comic to be it's own thing, as if that in and of itself justifies all of the issues I and others have with the comic.

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On 12/31/2019 at 9:54 AM, Heckboy said:

I did. This just sucks. I explained why. Being "original" doesn't automatically mean it's good.

It’s clearly not for you then, is it?

Quote

Sonic fans really just have no standards for anything, huh.

More like certain fans have an attitude problem they need to get over for others having a difference in taste. And you’re really one to talk when in the past you’ve mocked other people with standards criticizing this comic’s flaws as this comic being made for babies. So be careful where you throw those stones.

On 12/31/2019 at 10:01 AM, Heckboy said:

CSS was saying that "people" wanted the comic to be it's own thing, as if that in and of itself justifies all of the issues I and others have with the comic.

I really said all that?

Could’ve sworn I said people wanted it to be its own thing because that was what was wanted from the start. No one here even said that justified any issues with the comic.

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3 hours ago, Heckboy said:

 

Sonic fans really just have no standards for anything, huh.

Or the flaws just aren't as big a deal for some people. And I gotta be honest most of the flaws seem pretty minor all things considered. 

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On 12/30/2019 at 5:22 AM, Sonic Fan J said:

I can say that while I've enjoyed the comic so far, I do think it's primary weakness is pacing.

I agree on Pacing, but in different way than you said.

Let's look at World Collide. 12 issues, how many stories can be told!

One and straightforward at the. Well, alright. That's nature of crossovers. Better than Unite I guess

Let's start by "hero Vs hero" cliche as stretch it for 4 bloody issues. Not good? How about next act is 4 issues of small fight, with almost no development or rising stakes for that matter. And so fighting Genesis Unit or Amy/Knux was longer than Chaos Devil for some stupid reason.

On 12/31/2019 at 4:54 PM, Heckboy said:

Sonic fans really just have no standards for anything, huh.

Ooh, a kindle for the fire.

 I'll agree that comics still has flaws, but some readers can focus on the positives. Stuff has positives and negatives and how much one overshadows other is very subjective. I could as well call you " insensitive toward fine details", and who's to say which of us is right or wrong?

I know Forced was flaaaaawed, but I still enjoyed parts of it.
I didn't liked any new Star Wars (watched that cause friends and family), but reviewer MovieBob liked it since "star wars is like pizza. It hard to really make bad one. This was fine."

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3 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

MovieBob liked it since "star wars is like pizza. It hard to really make bad one. This was fine."

Eh, I don't know if I'd agree with him on that. I've had some poorly prepared Pizza and Attack of the Clones is easily one of the worst movies I've ever seen. 

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BTW, I looked on comichron.com sales and
1) so far we stay on ~11,000 issues, which is good, still better than Archie did.

2) In fact Sonic is usually 2-3nd best IDW book, after TMNT (who had big epic leading to #100, so no surprise) and Transformers. (And of course every time new book with shiny "#1" cover comes, it steals glory for month or two).

And my thoughts on comic didn't changed much since Year One. It improved on in two major ways: 1) more emotional impacts 2) completely new story... for Sonic anyway. At least we're exploring new possibilities, rather than repeat games or smash army of badniks. On smaller scale world building got a tiny bust, mostly with Cream's map and all those named locations, but also whole T&W mini.
One negative remains and that Flynn's obsessions with stretching arcs. I'm fine with "12 epic", but not if stories get repetitive or plot points get spread out. And if Flynn insists on "3 arc structure" then Second Act requires plot twist or at least major plot development. Otherwise act 2 is "filler that you have to get through before I give you resolution.

Example:
Iron Dominium 1) Establish new allies and enemies 2) Surprising return of Eggman and lost of city 3) Climax by restoring city GOOD JOB
Collide 1) Establish team up with Mega 2) Fight bunch of bots 3) Fight more bots but serious this time TRY AGAIN
Neo Saga 1) Establish mystery villain and world 2) twists about villain identity 3) Climax BETTER (sorta)
Metal VIrus 1) Establish virus and Sonic getting infected 2) army of zombies, 3) more army of zombies WORSE (and it's not even the end)

Of course I would get rid of 3-arcs all together and speed things up, but that's more of stylistic preference.

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