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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I actually want to say one more thing about this. For shadow this is kinda bad. Shadows strength as a character when written well hes a guy with a story that influenced him and makes him kinda weird in comparison to a lot of the cast. That said that story last had any expansion 14 years ago. While it seems like there are younger fans at current willing to go back and engage with older material to learn about him. How long will that last especially if the next few years are increasingly worse. Why would anyone care to engage if hes gonna be showing his ass and then you are "look he's better now".

I have red comics for a while and this strikes me as an editor having an awful idea screwing up a character and the character gets shelved. Call me overly pessimistic but it kinda feels like the end of the character as an entity in sonic as a franchise.

It's fairly common with games too. They did this with a whole franchise dissidia recently. Screwed up the last entry instead of trying to fix it, canned the whole thing. And I can point to numerous things in EA's grave yard that died of the exact same thing.

I do not trust sega not to act the same. Because they do it with sonic as a whole. Run the character into the ground. And then when no one likes the bad thing, they blame the thing and not how they made it.

This could be the end of this character because someone has a shitty idea and it sucks.

Shadow's too popular for that, honestly. If it was a less popular character like Cream it might be a death sentence, but Shadow could take a billion bad appearances and still live. Eventually someone who grew up on Sa2 will take the helm and we'll get that Shadow back, I bet.

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3 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Shadow's too popular for that, honestly. If it was a less popular character like Cream it might be a death sentence, but Shadow could take a billion bad appearances and still live. Eventually someone who grew up on Sa2 will take the helm and we'll get that Shadow back, I bet.

I hope your right.

 

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3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Screw up how exactly...?

She already did her convenience pull.

In that things go pearshaped because she thought she had a handle on things for a moment.

3 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

I thought people just hated that she invited Omochao to a picnic and allegedly forgot about cream.

Oh, there is probably that, though admittedly I didn't think of Amy in that case.

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12 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Dont know if this posted but a bumblekast moment detailed on reddit

It's just weird man.

 thathat 

What a load of horse shit. You may as well just write him out of the book if they're just going to mangle him like this. 

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It's funny how SEGA doesn't seem to realise that the version of Shadow they're trying to push is also comparable to the weakest version of Vegeta in all of Dragon Ball - which was the Cell saga. Where Vegeta was making consistently idiotic decision after idiotic decision over and over again because "uh muh pride", and it all came to boiling point when he was so utterly stupid enough to help Cell reach his perfect form. This is near 1:1 in terms of stupidity as to Shadow ignoring Sonic's warning about being infected, and deciding to try ramming through the zombots, because once again - "uh muh pride".

Vegeta gets away with it because at least his arrogant stupidity was in service of a greater character arc that was thankfully fulfilled in the Buu Saga that at least put the Android Saga characterisation in perspective as the in-between of his dickish murdering characterisation from Saiyan/Frieza, and his redemption in Buu. But Shadow has no arc to speak of, because he was never written like this, and was never intended to be written like this, which ends up just making him an insufferable idiot without any purpose.

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6 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Makes one wonder what problems they had with how Ian wrote Shadow in Archie?

He nailed the character there, and is now forced to flanderize him here in IDW.

They love their simple one-note characters like the Zeti, here's the reason. Shadow was too complex. No surprise.

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Consider that the last two games to actually use Shadow and give him a deeper story exploring his character were his own game and Sonic 06--both of which are widely seen as the worst games in the series, and received plenty of backlash with them. Maybe they see his original personality in that time period as one of the reasons those games were received negatively.

Besides, Shadow having any storyline of his own is a relic of the 'Dark Age'. And we know that they don't want to do anything with the games between Heroes and Black Knight. Including deeper stories that explore characters--which Shadow has always been built for since his inception. Now they're wanting to simplify him so he can stand with the rest of the cast with an unchanging character. 

Cynical? Yes. True? Possibly.

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Can I be real? I genuinely don't think Shadow has ever been a particularly deep or nuanced character. He has a tragic backstory sure but outside of that? He's never really been all that interesting past his initial game. Ian's run at Archie made him a little more interesting but IDK I can't really say I view Shadow's current portrayal as "Flanderizing" him because he's kinda always felt like this or at least has since Heroes.

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Really Shadow's always been like this?

Easily angered, high ego, and reckless?

Constantly throwing insults, trying to out do Sonic in serious situations, and...

I can't even list a 2nd 3rd thing because he wasn't around that much.

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2 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Can I be real? I genuinely don't think Shadow has ever been a particularly deep or nuanced character. He has a tragic backstory sure but outside of that? He's never really been all that interesting past his initial game. Ian's run at Archie made him a little more interesting but IDK I can't really say I view Shadow's current portrayal as "Flanderizing" him because he's kinda always felt like this or at least has since Heroes.

It was extremely common for people around that time to spread misinformation based on memes and misconceptions. Shadow being "the Vegeta to Sonic's Goku" is a phrase people took literally, and most parodies around that time portrayed him as exactly that; short-tempered, ego driven, and reckless and always trying to outdo Sonic. The franchise wasn't exactly popular back then, so it was common for people to label characters as disparagingly as possible because that was the cool thing to do. 

The actual truth of the matter is that Shadow has very superficial traits with Vegeta; outside of being the hero's rival (even though Vegeta isn't even that anymore...) and being kind of ego-driven, their characters really have nothing in common at all. 

You only have to look at their debuts respectively; Vegeta's debut is him literally wanting to conquer the planet for his own ends, absolutely prides himself as the pinnacle of his race and looks down upon the lower class goku and is indignant when the latter proves to be capable of keeping up with him, and kills his subordinate for failing to win. And I know the next arc recontextualizes this a bit, but at the time that was not the case and Vegeta was just a self-serving asshole.

Shadow's debut, he wants to destroy the planet but only as a means of revenge for what happened to his surrogate sister figure. While he does have a lot of pride in his status as the Ultimate Lifeform, when Sonic proves himself by using Chaos Control with a fake emerald, Shadow acknowledges him as an equal and even expressed sadness when he looked like he died. And when Rouge was in trouble on Prison Island, he opted to rescue her when he could have easily just took the emeralds and left her to die. 

From the outset, Vegeta is WAY less sympathetic than Shadow in his debut. Even their personalities (as mangled as they would end up being sadly) are nothing alike; Vegeta is short-tempered, driven entirely by pride, violent, and hates being inferior to Goku. Shadow is calm and collected, motivated by someone's dying wish, only fights people who are in his way, and has large respect for Sonic even if he doesn't necessarily like him. 

So it's kind of frustrating as a fan of the character, that he is so grossly misinterpreted as just a shameless Vegeta ripoff and now it's bleeding into official products; I'm not going to argue that Shadow was the most compelling character around or even the most nuanced, it's very easy to accuse his entire background as overly melodramatic for this series. But he still had his own distinct character and background that set him apart from the rest of the cast, so it's extremely disappointing to see all of that just ignored in favor of a version of a character that simply isn't as interesting because they don't care enough. 

I'm all for Shadow having more flaws as a character, but turning him into something that he is not wasn't the way to go about it in my honest opinion. 

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To quote the guys I think in the comment sections of that post

 

" they dont know what made shadow interesting and are trying to turn him into vegeta"

" they don't know what made vegeta interesting either"

Like lost world with mario and forces with other versions of sonic just poor copies of a thing that works. Hoping it works not understanding why it works.

It's this sort of thing that makes me feel no excitement for anything sonic team cooks up

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4 hours ago, Knight56 said:

Consider that the last two games to actually use Shadow and give him a deeper story exploring his character were his own game and Sonic 06--both of which are widely seen as the worst games in the series, and received plenty of backlash with them. Maybe they see his original personality in that time period as one of the reasons those games were received negatively.

Besides, Shadow having any storyline of his own is a relic of the 'Dark Age'. And we know that they don't want to do anything with the games between Heroes and Black Knight. Including deeper stories that explore characters--which Shadow has always been built for since his inception. Now they're wanting to simplify him so he can stand with the rest of the cast with an unchanging character. 

Cynical? Yes. True? Possibly.

You're like someone else except perhaps more appropriate. (I'm joking)

It could fit with the assumption that SEGA, like a number of business managers, can sometimes take the wrong message from a result.

I think it's quite that, though.

7 hours ago, Jack at the Cinema said:

Shadow was too complex. No surprise.

Mm...you're not wrong.

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16 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I’m really wondering how Sega is gauging the opinions on characters like Shadow to make restrictions, or what measure they make their cases on. They seem to be doing more harm to the character than good compared to others.

Someone has an idea about what sonic needs to be. Shadow does not fit the idea, change shadow so he does. They may not care about harm, but an overall vision of what sonic is.

Now some of you all might be thinking "well the last two super successful things they had weren't made by them directly". And that thought might lead think "their vision ( or lack thereof)  might not be worth it"

Yes. Nothing else really to say. We cant stop em.

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3 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Can I be real? I genuinely don't think Shadow has ever been a particularly deep or nuanced character. He has a tragic backstory sure but outside of that? He's never really been all that interesting past his initial game. Ian's run at Archie made him a little more interesting but IDK I can't really say I view Shadow's current portrayal as "Flanderizing" him because he's kinda always felt like this or at least has since Heroes.

He was deep and nuanced in the sense that he had a consistent character arc across numerous games emphasizing the complications of his own existence, the horror that went down because of it, his inclination towards avenging those who were hurt, and his struggle to grasp his own identity, and once that was resolved, his willingness to put the past behind him and do whatever it takes to protect the world.

It's notable that 06 and even Rivals made his side of the story emphasize how far he's come and his dedication towards sticking by his resolution in the face of those who would persecute him despite that, manipulate him into sharing revenge with them, or use their past to justify destroying the world.

Only Tails and maybe Blaze has had an inkling of that type of focus.

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The only silver-lining here is that this new version of Shadow that they're trying to push isn't really that popular at all. I've never seen anyone praise current Shadow as he is, and actively detest how obnoxious he is. So hopefully this is enough to convince whoever is trying to push this bullshit that he's wrong and needs to stop.

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It's possible they may change over time. Negative reaction to Amy's personality resulted in Free Riders and Generations led to her behaving differently in Lost World and Forces. It's conceivable that negative reaction to Shadow or other characters may also result in a course correction. Or not, hard to tell.

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Hopefully shadow's popularity is valuable enough to them, that him going against their idea of what sonic should be is something they are just content with it. There's always a chance they don't care and want to force change and that and that could end with the character being shelved because someone had a bad idea it didn't work and blamed the thing.

 

Hope its the former. Could be the latter, sega has done the latter before.

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Silver is a good example of the comics doing his character justice. Wayyyyy more of an actual character than his game counterpart. He's also adorable, and those star-eyes of his in the preview for the next comic is amazing -- really befitting his age.

Knuckles and Vector actually being good leaders and having responsibility? Wow, we haven't seen those traits for a while.

I really like these comic versions of the characters apart from maybe Sonic himself and then Shadow. Tangle and Whisper also aren't bad for new characters.

This is why I really wish Ian had more freedom to use Infinite as I feel Infinite could've benefited from the development the characters tend to recieve in the comics.

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He only became the leader from ST's lazyness. There's really no good argument for Knuckles and Amy to have their positions in the Resistance. They did jobs that should've been granted to new characters or less Classic/Iconic ones like Blaze or Vector or even G.U.N. Commander doing search 'n destroy.

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3 hours ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

Silver is a good example of the comics doing his character justice. Wayyyyy more of an actual character than his game counterpart. He's also adorable, and those star-eyes of his in the preview for the next comic is amazing -- really befitting his age.

Honestly, the comics just ran with traits you saw in glimpses in 06 or were more informed, which was good for both speciation and the less high stakes.

3 hours ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

I really like these comic versions of the characters apart from maybe Sonic himself and then Shadow. Tangle and Whisper also aren't bad for new characters.

What is it about Sonic that doesn't quite gel with you?

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Knuckles isn't a leader...and in the comics it's established that he was leader in name only.

Knuckles being a Commander basically amounted to being a guy who stood in front, headed a charge, and didn't scare easy since he's a warrior by blood. Which was fine.

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1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Knuckles being a Commander basically amounted to being a guy who stood in front, headed a charge, and didn't scare easy since he's a warrior by blood. Which was fine.

I mean he was never a leader, as in that's never been a part of his character like the post above mine was implying.

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