Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[DabigRG]

On 10/11/2017 at 7:12 AM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I could take or leave Sticks. I like her well enough. However, the real crying shame of Boom's loss would be the disappearance of their version of Tails. 

He's too perfect. I like the others for what they are for Boom just fine but what they did with Tails is just too excellent to fade away.

How so, if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

 

On 10/12/2017 at 11:13 AM, Josh said:

 

http://nintendoeverything.com/new-sonic-forces-digital-comic-series-debuts-today/

Four Part Sonic Forces series confirmed. After all that.


 

Ooh-hoo-hoo-hoo! That looks good!

[DabigRG]

On 10/12/2017 at 5:59 PM, Forterror-Metallix said:

More updates from today's Sonic stream:

-No known price per issue yet

-Mighty, Ray, and the Hooligans are apparently fair game for this comic

-No origins planned for the cast yet. This first year will focus solely on the "here and now"

-This is primarily a Modern-based comic, but look forward to bits from Classic and Boom

-They don't know if there will be a subscription service yet

 

Oh. Well, I guess that answers some of my concerns.

 

On 10/12/2017 at 7:05 PM, LongcrierCat said:

I guess I liked that Flynn worked with the overall lore of the Sonic Franchise and didn't ignore a single bit of it. That's kind of the thing Sega needs is that kind of acknowledging consistency to their canon. That's another cute and awesome detail that made Sonic Mania a blast. It paid to be a Sonic fan who got into the whole lore of the series. 

I have no idea what's going on with the new book but it's nice to hear that old crew from Archie are returning. I just hope that they can do what they were doing but better. You know? Like let Sally and Nicole be openly gay for one thing. Maybe tighten up the character storytelling and let Sonic be friendly and really brotherly with Tails again and show an undying interest in what he does. Maybe even write a Knuckles that's more cultured in whatever his role as the Guardian of the Emeralds is. Maybe Amy has a life with other friends when she's not with Sonic? 

It's about taking what's there and making it better and making it new. And then yes. Maybe add new characters. But people like familiarity for a reason. And by familiarity we don't mean Green Hill Zone for the umpteenth time. 

We mean, have the ideas of the series coming to new conclusions. New scenarios where we meet new people in old and new places  and meet old faces in new situations. 

Don't get me wrong. A fresh start is good. But I'm going to miss things the way they were. I hope the Eggman Empire Loyals and Freedom Fighters stay around and more experimentation is allowed. It just feels that after both the comics and games were made to fit each other better in the books that starting completely fresh might even be a mistake. 

I have no worries about the writing being solid. 

 

Agreed.

 

On 10/12/2017 at 7:32 PM, Tenko said:

Why is Shadow back then...he died. His convoluted story arc in the games also didn't make it any more clear as to if he was the real one or one of Eggmans weird robot clone things post Heroes...

Oh wait..hes super popular. For whatever reason, so rules don't apply. Logic.

Actually, it did.

 

 

 

 

 

[PublicEnemy1]

25 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

So what are these massive differences a comic book contains that makes it so they can't have stories without backstories and motivations? 

Backstories may not be a MASSIVE difference, but it does help with telling good stories (if done right) which is Ian's goal. However, motivation DEFINITELY makes a difference.  It's their driving force to solve the conflict. As a quote from here ( http://theeditorsblog.net/2011/02/17/the-psychology-of-character/) says:  "Motivations lead to action. And action leads to more action. And problems. And conflict. And thus to story." I suggest you read it, but I warn you, it is quite lengthy. But it explains everything.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

9 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Actually, it did.

 

I don't blame anyone for missing that one, though. It only shows up when you're nine minutes into the final boss. Somehow they managed to shove the only worthwhile piece of exposition in the game into the worst possible storytelling device in a game already known for having the worst, worst told story in the franchise.

[RedFox99]

1 minute ago, Shaddy the guy said:

a game already known for having the worst, worst told story in the franchise.

Wasn't that 06's title?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

No, 06's story was terrible, but it did at least communicate itself from beginning to end. Shadow's story is all over the place, some stuff canon, other stuff not, completely disregarding tons of it's own established material within the game itself, and all exploding in a big dumb mess of a game. Honestly, 06 is never going to not be the worst game in pretty much every way (yes, yes soundtrack, I know)  but Shadow is always going to be the game that pisses me off the most. That was the point where I stopped giving the games a chance to pretend it was any good at stories and just kind of went by whatever is the most immediate "sort of fun".

[PublicEnemy1]

7 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Wasn't that 06's title?

At least 06 was so bad it's good. Shadow the Hedgehog was just... boring IMO.

 

[Razule]

On 12/10/2017 at 7:32 PM, Tenko said:

Why is Shadow back then...he died. His convoluted story arc in the games also didn't make it any more clear as to if he was the real one or one of Eggmans weird robot clone things post Heroes...

Oh wait..hes super popular. For whatever reason, so rules don't apply. Logic.

Because.. SEGA doesn't have to operate by the rules they set for companies that use their IP so as to not be contradicted?

[DabigRG]

On 10/14/2017 at 8:13 PM, Miragnarok said:

 Nat That

What now?

On 10/14/2017 at 8:35 PM, Shadowlax said:

I'm stumped on blaze. I don't even know if the girl in forces

I seriously doubt it, since it'd make little sense.

On 10/14/2017 at 9:38 PM, hedgie said:

So, what characters from Sonic cartoons do you want to see in IDW Sonic? (Not counting blatant choices like the Freedom Fighters)

 

It's been a while since I've even gleaned those older shows, so I'm having a bit of a hard time thinking. I'm pretty sure Underground and especially Sonic X were off-limits, but who knows? Maybe something changed.

Multimedia Mogul Breezie is already primed to be brought back. Some of the Mean Bean Machine Robots would be a cool throw in thanks to Mania, particularly Davy Sprocket, Sir Ffuzzy Logik, and DragonBreath. And maybe if Evan Stanley can write again, we can bring back her version of Von Schlemmer, Ze Bits, and maybe Gold.

I wouldn't The Freedom Fighters returning more or less unchanged from the New252 except as more occasional characters doing their own thing, like they apparently were meant to be both in the backstory and after the Shattered World Arc. I'd like to have Walter Naugus back as well thanks to the Reboot realigning him with his original incarnation while still doing interesting lore around him and the Witchcarters.

I haven't seen much of Underground in a while, so I'm blanking on who would actually make sense to show up due to the few I do recall being so context heavy. 

I mentioned up above that I wouldn't mind having Chris Thorndyke show up as his adult self, doubling as a reference to the Gem system from 06.  Cosmo was also vaguely set up with the possibility of returning in some shape or form, so at least a Chronicles styled reference to her would be nice. Or maybe introduce another Seedrian for fun; the Metarex themselves are kinda askin for trouble, though. Kunoichi was probably my favorite E Series for the show, so having her around in some shape or form would be cool. And I recall having the concept of Bokkun and those Bokkun creatures from that one episode returning as a non-threatening antagonist, particularly for Cream. Maybe the Dark Chao Walker can get in there as well.

And for Boom, Sticks and maybe that Perci chick everyone seems to love are the obvious ones. Comedy Chick could also have a cameo on TV or something since that's basically why he was created; Soar would also be good since he's essentially Babylonian anyway. Most of the other Boom characters would be a little too weird or niche to add in though. And Cliff has to be just a straight up ripoff of Uncle Chuck.

 

 

 

[RedFox99]

20 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

No, 06's story was terrible, but it did at least communicate itself from beginning to end. Shadow's story is all over the place, some stuff canon, other stuff not, completely disregarding tons of it's own established material within the game itself, and all exploding in a big dumb mess of a game. Honestly, 06 is never going to not be the worst game in pretty much every way (yes, yes soundtrack, I know)  but Shadow is always going to be the game that pisses me off the most. That was the point where I stopped giving the games a chance to pretend it was any good at stories and just kind of went by whatever is the most immediate "sort of fun".

So 06 had a more coherent story that ShTH? Wow...

[DabigRG]

23 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

Part of me wants Naugus just because he would be a nice reoccurring villain, but honestly the reboot kinda soured me on him. Pre-reboot he had a decent personality that improved on his SatAM counterpart, but post-reboot he felt very hollow. He's the SatAM character I'd like to see but be least disappointed with not having.

 

Post reboot, my favorites are Cassia and Clove, but given how tied they are to the Egg Bosses concept which I'm not a fan of, I think it'd be hard to bring them in while keeping what made them appealing to begin with.

How so?

23 hours ago, hedgie said:

As a matter of fact, yes. IDW has a penchant for bringing back obscure characters. So seeing Katella again after 20+ years doesn't seem too far-fetched.

Not that I'm at all opposed, but how the heck would she even work, though?

13 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

I agree with most of that (not that fond of Dave because he appears way too often in the show and because of his personality).

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

I don't think we saw the Rogues post reboot at all

We didn't. They get referenced by BattleLord Kukku in a conversation with Abyss, but that's about it.

 

6 hours ago, hedgie said:

 Not to mention Topaz as a regular in Rouge-centric issues.

Or GUN centric stories, anyway. Which is what Mr. Flynn was planning to do at some point.

6 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

 To be honest, I would kind of like them to maybe try to make Elise more likable. Maybe have her be like herself from the Triggered comics of Mobius Legends. 

I would like to see them do something with post-reset Elise, as well. 

Don't know what that is you're referencing, though.

6 hours ago, hedgie said:

About Mephiles, would anyone like to see him redesigned if he appears? 

That was apparently the plan for Shadow Fall, originally. Or at least he was gonna be depowered somewhat to make him more manageable.

 

5 hours ago, Creep Dude said:

Ah, so a proper battle with just those two teams minus Dark & Rose's interference, interesting. 

What's even more intriguing is that neither the Babylons and Hoolgians are heroes, so I would've curious on who to root for or how it would turn out.

If we're lucky, Ian might actually revive for the IDWverse if either of them are returning.

Pretty much. The idea was something of a farcical heist or something, kinda like what Bean and Bark apparently went through in the past with Fiona prereboot against Rouge.

 

 

 

[Dr. Detective]

2 hours ago, ShroomZed said:

Alright, maybe this is just me, but I'm motherfucking glad Sonic isn't one piece. I don't bloody care about motivations or background events that drive the characters, I just want people who do shit and that's what defines what their characters are, what they do in the present. You take them as they fucking are. It may be shallower than some other things but that's exactly how I like it when it comes to Sonic. 

I don't agree that motivations aren't necessary. I will agree that parents aren't necessary in order for those to exist, however.

Backstories, I'm only marginally okay with if they can manage to make it interesting enough or creative enough to justify it as something that could only benefit the story if it were told.  No offense to Ian but I don't feel he'd be able to do it in a way that would satisfy me. So I ultimately would rather he leave it alone. Truthfully, I don't really care WHO their parents are. If I did, it'd only be because I wished to find out what happened to land some of the characters in their current position. Like how a six-year-old bee ended up with two people so vastly different in age-range than him. Or if there's a story behind Tails's abandonment.

But even still, parents aren't required for stories like that. And even if they were, it certainly wouldn't be necessary to keep them around.

Plus, I feel like it could benefit from being One Piece in other areas. Like creativity and character designs for one. Not saying the comic won't have that but the Sonic series in general could always use more of it.

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

How so, if you don't mind me asking?

Ah man. I wish I could dig up all the lengthy posts I've made about how much I love Boom's version of Tails. I've done so many, I don't think I'd be able to collect all the reasons I love him so much in one area.

It didn't hit me how perfect he was until I saw "Translate This", which I think was the third episode of the show. With Sonic Colors and Sonic Lost World failing (in my opinion) to add a little more fun to Tails's character by stretching him beyond just being cute and kind, seeing him in this episode in particular brought him back to that in a way that didn't just have him explain things and saying really generic nice guy stuff. The excitement he had for creating his little robot and how he talked to it about getting it right when he went to sleep, how upset he was when it got taken from him, and the brilliant plan he had of using its malfunction against Eggman to relay a message to his friends was not only a clever bit of writing but a way to use his intelligence in a manner that didn't resort to just mouthing off techno-babble. In Colors, him screwing up with the translator not only kind of failed as a joke dispenser (the translation jokes in that Boom episode made more sense and were a lot funnier) but there wasn't really an interesting spin on it at the end that allowed for it's use to be something worth putting up with. It lost it's usefulness when Tails told Sonic that he had to destroy 5 generators to free the aliens. And even then, by that point, he had already destroyed 2 so he was already half-way done. There's also the fact that the ferris wheel robot had a part lodged into the cannon so that it would have blown up whether Sonic had done something or not but that's a Colors issue and not a Tails one.

As the show went on, I got a chance to bare witness to sides of Tails I had barely ever seen exploited to his character's advantage before. The way the characters can act out on the show allowed for Tails specifically to come off as an actual child. He likes having fun and goofing off with the others. However, he's also really adorable when he showcases his glaring issues with self-esteem. Like during the episode where they're all taking turns with trying to defeat Eggman individually, Tails is extremely nervous, pacing back and forth, wondering if his machine is cool enough. When he gets himself calm enough, Eggman shows up and surprises him and he freaks out, trying to put his hand on the device to get into a cool pose but falls on his butt. Then he tries to play it off by trying to explain what his machine does in a cool way... but the more he talks the more excited he gets about his device and the more you see his face light up. Eventually he drops the cool act and just starts getting really excited about seeing Eggman use it to the point where Eggman has to tell him, "Whoa, Whoa. Slow down Professor." And when Eggman does use it, he uses it on Tails and freezes him in place, exploiting one of his more obvious flaws too. Like the "because you just told me Fox-boy" moment from SA2 only put into a more purposefully jokey context that still manages to play with who he is as a character in the right way.

In that moment alone, you see his childish tendencies, you see his nerdy intelligence, you see how despite that intelligence he's still inexperienced, and you also see that despite loving what he does, he still has hang-ups about showing his stuff sometimes. Sometimes it'll be shown in a whole scene. Others it'll be a quick gag like when he's the one tasked with saying "Ready Set Go!" when it comes to the girls going up against Sonic and Knuckles in a bet. Yet, he screws it up and says it wrong and then panics and tries to say it's the first time he's ever done something like it.

I love the way he and Sonic act together too. It never feels like Tails is overdoing it when he plays off of him like it sometimes did in the newer games. When they argue or he's upset with Sonic it feels a lot more justified and they even manage to make it kind of cute sometimes. Other times, the show will go out of its way to show how much they care for each other, whether it be Tails listing off all the awesome things he loves about Sonic in a courtroom or just giving the guy a big hug.

Plus, the show isn't afraid to dish out slapstick onto him. I love that a lot. No character should get left behind when it comes to slapstick. Not even the kids. 

They got all the qualities down for what I want to see out of a version of Tails. He's nice and cute without being bland as dishwater like in some of the earlier games but the nuances to his character that make him more fun and outgoing down turn him into a little version of Sonic or a whiney bitch.

Hopefully I can find this explanation later because I really like it a lot.

 

[GentlemanX]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

How so?

I'm assuming this is regarding Cassia and Clove? What I really like about them is the bond between them and the grip Eggman holds over their lives. It's all about the tragedy and the only way to keep that tragic aspect is to have them working for Eggman. But having anyone working for Eggman that isn't some robot he invented or a like minded evil do-er seems out of character and tone for Sega Eggman, which is the version I would want for a new comic like this one. Temporary minions like Knuckles or Shadow aside anyway.

I suppose I'd be fine eventually if they were reintroduced without the tragic aspect to them, I do like their sisterly bond character which wouldn't be reliant on that. But at least initially I'd be frustrated losing that element of their dynamic.

[ShadowSJG]

Didn't they say we are getting more info this week? What is it?

[DabigRG]

4 hours ago, Razule said:

What are you guys' thoughts on giving the SEGA characrers parents?

They'd be pretty unnecessary, really. Which is likely part of why Sega has that mandate in place.

Plus, there's not much room to do that anyway:

• Sonic is a freespirited hero who Sega don't want being [too] tied down and while having parents existing ala Jules and Bernie would be a neat little thing, it's also pretty pointless and gives him too much of an origin.
• Eggman is a little too old for his parents to be around, much less relevant without going his backstory some more, which Sega doesn't seem to want. Blaze and Dr. Nega may also fall into this category.
• Tails was explicitly stated to be an orphan at some point and seemingly just made his own places to hang.
• Knuckles is the last of his kind not counting Chronicles and not knowing much beyond instincts and the murals is a fairly key part of his character.
• Big's origin are kinda irrelevant, even if I really liked the idea of the Felidae.
• Vector is an adult and arguably the mobian that's treated the most as such, so having his parents around would be even weirder. The same can somewhat be said for Rouge and Espio as well.
• Charmy is presumably an orphan as well, at least if a moment in the New252 is any indication. Same can probably be said Marine.
• And who even knows with Gemerl and most of the Deadly Six.

Only Amy, Omochao, Cheese(and Chocola), and maybe Wave, Storm, and Silver would be remotely open to breaking that rule, besides the established on arrival Shadow, Cream, Omega, Jet, and Zomom.

3 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Some explanation of how Knuckles is the last echidna and has somehow never met another member of his own race would be nice, too.

 

Well, echidna's do lay eggs. But we already knew that.

 

 

3 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

. SonicSCANF breifly had a bunch of this stuff, but a while back they decided to stop hosting the Archie and Fleetway comics.

You may read that and think "but those aren't even related to the manga", and you're right. I have no idea why they haven't put those back up after nearly a year of inactivity, it's bullshit.

Yeah, that's been a considerable pain in the ass considering it was the only way I could finally read Sonic X a week or so before it went down.

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I don't blame anyone for missing that one, though. It only shows up when you're nine minutes into the final boss. Somehow they managed to shove the only worthwhile piece of exposition in the game into the worst possible storytelling device in a game already known for having the worst, worst told story in the franchise.

Yeah, while I'm all for easter eggs, that was too much. Especially since you'll likely die before you can stumble upon it yourself, as I did on my first playthrough.

22 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

I'm assuming this is regarding Cassia and Clove? What I really like about them is the bond between them and the grip Eggman holds over their lives. It's all about the tragedy and the only way to keep that tragic aspect is to have them working for Eggman. But having anyone working for Eggman that isn't some robot he invented or a like minded evil do-er seems out of character and tone for Sega Eggman, which is the version I would want for a new comic like this one. Temporary minions like Knuckles or Shadow aside anyway.

I suppose I'd be fine eventually if they were reintroduced with the tragic aspect to them, I do like their sisterly bond character which wouldn't be reliant on that. But at least initially I'd be frustrated losing that element of their dynamic.

Ah, okay. 

That also included Naugus, btw.

[GentlemanX]

I guess my problem with post-reboot Naugus is how plain he is. This is a complaint from the SatAM version too, though I give that one more leeway given he only appeared in one episode while Ian gave Naugus a decent amount of page time post-reboot. He squabbles a bit with Wendy but otherwise he mostly just hisses angrily and throws crystals at things. The transformation ability was rarely used besides to trick Knuckles. I think part of it is how we got Eggman's Dozen and Shattered back to back and Ian kept repeating himself. He takes control of Metal Sonic in the first arc and then Omega in the next arc. It just seemed like Ian had no idea what to do with Naugus.

Pre-reboot, Naugus was able to play off a wider range of characters to get different results. He could tempt Max and Geoffrey, he had both reverence and disgust for Mogul, he authority over Uma, Kodos, the Arachnae, Geoffrey, etc. He had a wide range of abilities, elemental magic, flight, the crystals, transformation, possession - his technique was never boring. And the Order of Ixis, his split personalities, the mutations, etc. gave his surrounding environment and background elements an extra level of interest (admittedly, I was eager to learn more about Ixis from the post-reboot, but we never got the chance to really learn about it). He just overall seemed like a much more round and interesting character and I wonder if Ian would be able to recapture that after he seemed to flounder at it the last time.

[PublicEnemy1]

Do you guys think that the mandates will be loosened? I hope so.

[Shadowlax]

4 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

I'm assuming this is regarding Cassia and Clove? What I really like about them is the bond between them and the grip Eggman holds over their lives. It's all about the tragedy and the only way to keep that tragic aspect is to have them working for Eggman. But having anyone working for Eggman that isn't some robot he invented or a like minded evil do-er seems out of character and tone for Sega Eggman, which is the version I would want for a new comic like this one. Temporary minions like Knuckles or Shadow aside anyway.

I suppose I'd be fine eventually if they were reintroduced without the tragic aspect to them, I do like their sisterly bond character which wouldn't be reliant on that. But at least initially I'd be frustrated losing that element of their dynamic.

My only issue with that, is that like... eventually characters have to find out that's a thing, and i'm pretty sure every single character would get pissed at eggman and offer to get them away. Hell characters like shadow, might actually try to off him again, I like the narrative, but I  feel like its limited in how long you can do it. Because you are dealing with a cast of... for the most part selfless goody two shoes, and the shades of gray that would be required to do that doesn't really exist. 

[SBR2]

14 hours ago, Razule said:

What are you guys' thoughts on giving the SEGA characrers parents?

No. That's my main thought on it.

I honestly have never really subscribed to this idea that we need to see Sonic's home life for him to be a good character. Why can't he just be a smartass drifter who fights robots?

[Razule]

8 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

Do you guys think that the mandates will be loosened? I hope so.

Which one?

[Red Hot Jack]

7 minutes ago, Razule said:

Which one?

I don't think the mandates are stupid, they have to keep Sonic's identity intact. Although I could do without the "Sonic can't lose" rule, but the rest? I don't have problems with the planet not being called Mobius, I just wish it had an actual name, Sonic can have emotions, he just can't cry like a fountain, I'm fine with that, and Knuckles is the last of his kind, I actually find that epic. I don't want to see a family for Sonic, I didn't like his parents from the comic, Uncle Chuck was cool, yeah, but I'd rather see Tails getting a stepfamily.

One thing I would keep (or change, depending on what we get), is that I would have official couples and relationships, but not for the game characters, that would make it too different from the game series interactions.

 

[Shadowlax]

I don't even mind couples for game characters

Don't be a weirdo hack and make it weird 

Background thing that gives them motivation from time to time and a bit of plot? sure

Everything having to do with scourge ever, especially when he was pretending to be sonic, everything with Fiona a lot of shit with sally and a lot of pre-reboot stuff in genera? Don't do that, only villains do that. 

[RedFox99]

4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I don't even mind couples for game characters

I think it could work for some couples like Vectilla and maybe Sonamy.

[Shadowlax]

1 minute ago, RedFox99 said:

I think it could work for some couples like Vectilla and maybe Sonamy.

I meant more like in comic characters being in a relationship with game ones. Like tails liking cosmo, or that girl from boom who's name I forget. Just don't make it weird. 

Sega is probably never going to confirm a relationship in game and the ones they get close to confirming vary on who's writing what. And the direction of the company, I think that might be one of the reasons why rouge is " unusable" in sonic boom

[Razule]

19 minutes ago, Jack the Rookie said:

Tails getting a stepfamily

Adoptive family, step is always the family you gain through your parents marrying someone