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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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8 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

The very fact that they have Sonic Channel artwork, and the fact that Sega have approved of their appearance in the current comic is all of the validation you need. Once again, if they were going to be "phased out" they'd be gone. There's no if ands and buts about this, and is an irrational fear born from nothing. 

Seriously can we drop this now, because it's getting ridiculous. 

There are plenty of if and and buts actually. Have you like engaged with media like this before, because there are tiers of " Hey we aren't really using this character anymore "

Obviously cream isn't quite " This is horribly embarrassing we aren't even going to reference this tier"

She does align with " maybe she doesn't gel with what we want to do with the franchise tier , and we don't plan on doing anything with her so she's for the most part isn't going to be around or referenced" and that's a form of phasing out as well. And its a pretty valid fear.

Sega approves things that they have NO PLANS on using and if you deny that you are actually being disingenuous I can go back to this very comic along with the comic previous and point out specific examples of Ian being able to use shit sega has no plans on using but isn't horribly embarrassing so they will allow it.

Ian Flynn well tell you his dang self that just because a thing shows up in the book doesn't necessarily means its actually going to be used let alone be canon in any capacity

 

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Not that I don't appreciate your input on this subject, Shadowlax. Because I do appreciate and can agree with your thoughts here lol 

But let's seriously just drop it. I've derailed the Archie Sonic thread multiple times over Cream, I don't wish to derail IDW over her. Especially since I'm actually satisfied with how she had been utilized in this comic compared to its predecessor; just miffed at Gemerl taking up the spotlight, but I may have thought he took too much than he actually did. Besides, that subject goes beyond the comics and would probably be better suited as its own thread. Key word being "probably" because, as Kuzu states and I must admit, it's based on irrational fear and nothing

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I don't think the fear is irrational, Its just a distrust of the corporation to provide you what you want if you feel you aren't as fiscally viable to their world view as other fans. But I'll drop it

I'm curious as if they will do more game tie ins

I actually liked the TSR one as simple as it was

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23 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

There are plenty of if and and buts actually. Have you like engaged with media like this before, because there are tiers of " Hey we aren't really using this character anymore "

Obviously cream isn't quite " This is horribly embarrassing we aren't even going to reference this tier"

She does align with " maybe she doesn't gel with what we want to do with the franchise tier , and we don't plan on doing anything with her so she's for the most part isn't going to be around or referenced" and that's a form of phasing out as well. And its a pretty valid fear.

Sega approves things that they have NO PLANS on using and if you deny that you are actually being disingenuous I can go back to this very comic along with the comic previous and point out specific examples of Ian being able to use shit sega has no plans on using but isn't horribly embarrassing so they will allow it.

Ian Flynn well tell you his dang self that just because a thing shows up in the book doesn't necessarily means its actually going to be used let alone be canon in any capacity

 

If they wanted Cream gone, she'd be gone. End of discussion. I'm not talking about this anymore because it's stupid. If you want to keep entertaining this line of thought, then be my guest, because I don't really give a damn anymore. 

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1 hour ago, Kuzu said:

Since it seems like I'm not getting Shadow doing stupid stuff; I at least am interested on who this Clutch guy is. 

Its funny though, because the last time Rouge, Amy, and Cream interacted was in Treasure Team Tango about ten years ago, and it was much less friendly terms. 

Yeah, I'm curious about Clutch too. Could this be an evil counterpart for Cream? Or just a shady Chao trainer?  

Indeed lol Of course, TTT was hardly ever renown for its characterization of Rouge. Here's hoping this arc does Rouge tagging along Amy and Cream a whole lot better

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21 hours ago, Iko said:

 

I don't know why, but I'm under the impression that the fact that the story was planned to be Cream-Rouge-Shadow and now apparently became Cream-Rouge-Amy could mean that it's Amy that may steal the spotlight from Cream and not Gemerl.

BTW I think that Gemerl is to Cream what Chaos is to Tikal... I think that the two characters are very similar, except that one is a ghost who lived in ancient times, while the other exists in the present and has less experience and knownledge of the world because of being way younger.

Ooh, that's a cool way of looking at it 

13 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

So gemril being around despicably in the absence of her chao makes sense... to me anyway.

All that said if you say wanted to make a complaint to how all the in game girl characters seem to be largely relegated to side rolls even amy sometimes and the only that commands presence is often trapped on another planet and that sucks. I'll agree with you on that broader scale yes, infact its my main fear with tangle and whisper getting close to games among other fears. But like with cream specifically I don't quite see the issue.

 

Uh, did you mean to use that word or...?

And yes, that is of great concern. 

3 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

 

1) I'm not saying I want Cream to be a "uber badass who could wipe the floor with Shadow" or any of that crap. I'd rather she NOT become such a character. I understand if that's the impression I give off, given my posts in the past... But no. 

 

 And I want Cream to be shown fighting by her own capability more because not only is this an action franchise (in which non-combat characters are the most minor of the cast at best, and obviously I want Cream to be in the major leagues at least) but Cream's most memorable moments are when she fights.   

I don't remember why, but this reminds of some conversation or thought that resulted in me thinking of that one scene in Force except with Cream in place or Silver. 

Quote

Creamhas had a surge of popularity in recent years because her OP status in her playable appearances came to light to the masses, who subsequently had fun with it. And be honest, what moments of Sonic X!Cream do you even remember of her? That time she and Cheese fought and destroyed Emerl, and the odd confrontational moments throughout the show (be it direct combat or simply calling out Chris on dissing his own mother)? Or the rest of Cream's appearances in Sonic X? 

Of course, I'd be all good with Cream not fighting at all if she had some way to still be useful and/or cool in the major cast without doing so ("cool" is the key thing here. And before you try to tell me otherwise, you CAN have characters who are both cute and cool. Look no further than, say, Pikachu). Such as being a the definitive healer of the main cast, providing the combatants crucial support via eliminating injuries, defending them from further harm, and so on. But outside of Sonic Chronicles, that is not the case for Cream, and so her best bet to remain with the major cast (let alone not be retired like Mighty, Ray, and the other Classic characters had been) is to fight. Because ultimately that's the only way for a recurring major character in Sonic to contribute in a story.

[He's right you know image].

Quote

Look no further than Jewel in IDW: can any of you see her as a major character with her non-combat, civilian role? Not unless a given story is conjured to give that character some importance. And I'm simply wanting for Cream to avoid that fate.

2) I am satisfied with Cream's moment in Issue 27, nor do I think she was short changed. I have nitpicks, of course, but after the extreme frustration of Reboot Archie as a whole, I couldn't be more thankful to Issue 27 as a whole for what it did for Cream. Or more accurately allowed her to do.

 

Granted, maybe I'm just being irrationally resentful of Gemerl for the same reason I had become resentful of Sally in Post-Reboot Archie. Not helped by Gemerl literally doing what Sally did in Issue 26... All I can say is that I want Cream to stand out on her own and not get talked down to by other characters, since the opposite case isn't doing her character any favors. Sally was the most frequent offender in Post-Reboot, denying Cream from taking any action because "it's too dangerous" (nevermind Cream's canonical involvement in the no less dangerous events of Advance 2 & 3, Heroes, Battle, and Rush) and taking over Cream's few moments of action (namely the climax to Issue 267, in which Cream's initiative to rescue the Freedom Fighters was overshadowed by Sally's "sympathy sobbing"). Gemerl committed the 'talking down to' with his own "it's too dangerous" in Issue 26, and his presence alone garnered more attention from fans in Issue 18 and Issue 27, both issues that were meant to be Cream's stories.

I still think Archie was down to unfortunate timing/pacing more than anything.

The conceit of that character arc/interaction between Cream & Sally was choice and the two notable instances I can think of make sense with that arc in the context of Unleashed & how it would pay off in mind. That said, World's Unite really did screw it up, as not only does it mess with Sally's place in that (even if it makes perfect sense given the stakes of Act 2), but then we suddenly jump to Cream along on pretty intense mission with no comment or better yet, no transition.

Overall, Cream benefits from something like the Freedom Fighters more than any game character besides maybe Tails and like with any good idea given shaoe, it was the execution that let it down.

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So I'm sorry if I'm rather irritated with the robot right now. I'm trying not to, taking into consideration Gemerl's own lengthy absence from the franchise, but for once I'd like for Cream not to be overshadowed by a "generic badass" character, and I feel Gemerl has interfered with that. Hence I'm not looking forward to his presence in the Chao Racing story and voicing my concerns so things don't degrade for Cream in the one medium that's allowing her a chance, in light of the games completely abandoning her coughcouchTeamSonicRacingcoughcough 

In think regardless if anyone's stance on this, we can at least recognize that this is ultimately borne of unfortunate (?) context. Gemerl being there at all is not bad, but as you(or in most other cases, Kuzu) were likely bothered by, the fact that he's notably present as a fourth/fifth/six wheel in a sneak peak of what is obstensibly a low stakes story(ergo, pretty sure Clutch isn't much to worry about) about three somewhat unlikely characters hanging out can inadvertently send the wrong message about the content.

And that's what it is at the end of the day: an out of context panel that's only in the pencil stage. So while you're not wrong to raise an issue with something that bugged you personally, we must keep in mind that it's honestly not a big deal. It'd be different if it was, like, a main cover.

2 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Well, I have good reason to be. After all, much of my rants about Reboot-Archie!Cream were fueled primarily out of admittedly irrational fear SEGA would try to phase Cream out of the franchise due to her seeming irrelevance, which Archie Sonic wasn't exactly helping with. And people indeed called me crazy over that. But lo and behold, Team Sonic Racing would come out around three years after Archie Sonic ended, and Cream is not only replaced by three random Chao and Omochao in her established team, but went on completely unmentioned by the rest of the cast in the game's story mode. Espio and Charmy at least got name-dropped in reference to Vector forming a team with Blaze and Silver instead of with them. Cream though? Nah, she never existed; Omochao had always been the third member of Team Rose

Leaving a character out if something that screams perfect for them tends to do that. That Omochai honestly sounded like Cream through a filter at first didn't help.

3 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Once again, I still think you're being overly paranoid over nothing dude. 

This is a side of the discussion that's kinda valid and necessary for it to be an actual ...discussion.

That said, of the people who could be leading this side of the argument, it probably shouldn't be you.

2 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

That's totally a valid fear, but I think if Sega allowed cream to be in IDW to begin with when they aren't allowing Marine or Infinite to be in it, it means they have some hope for her.

 

Infinite not being available at least makes sense for a number of reasons.

It's Marine that's the more ambiguous case even as far as Sega themselves go, which at absolute best makes you wonder.

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Sega also said they were phasing out Big a few years ago, and lo and behold, he's still right here. Team Sonic Racing is one game. ONE. You'd have a point if this was a recurring thing, but it's literally just a single game of a thirty year franchise. 

Cream still regularly gets artwork on Sonic Channel made by the official game artist and whatnot. If Sega were going to phase her out, they would have did it already. So once again, please chill out and stop overreacting about minor details and then forming conspiracy theories over nothing

She was also absent from Forces, now that you mention it.

Also, Big really was retiredfrom the games  until fairly recently though, down to completed recordings for Generations evidently being purged and his only appearances for years being Archie(which used other officially retired chracters) & kitchen sink phone games. It was only some combination of his popularity online and the low number of power type characters that openly brought him back for TSR.

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----------------------------------------------

Don'cha love how replying takes so long that a conversation can end right as you doing in?

Also, double posting

2 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

 

So, to try and change the topic for the better... What are y'all excited for in the Chao Racing story? Besides just being a short and fun story after the Zombot saga lol I personally can't wait to see Cream and Rouge's interactions And Amy hopefully being the energetic girl she was back on the Adventure Era

Just seeing Cream in what could be her forte is an automatic approval. Seeing her interact with Rougeand Shadow of all people earns an accolade.

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Since it seems like I'm not getting Shadow doing stupid stuff; I at least am interested on who this Clutch guy is. 

Its funny though, because the last time Rouge, Amy, and Cream interacted was in Treasure Team Tango about ten years ago, and it was much less friendly terms. 

34710-1536682367-12482-list_items-ezgif.

Oh yeah, they were in that...as direct enemies. Man have things changed.

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

To be fair this person. The ONLY reason big exists is that he's a meme among the staff, not even the fanbase just the staff. And he still despite gets rather negative reception from the fanbase from time to time. Cream has never been a meme, has always been contentious in a way her fan base can not  counter balance and I don't think sonic channel art work amounts to anything. Shadow's chao has sonic channel art work, gemrel has sonic channel art work. One doesn't exist and the other outside of the comic has all been phased out. Its a very valid fear and i think you are underplaying it to try and tone down discussion.

I also think its a valid fear because I dunno about cream but it actually seems like they maybe trying to phase some characters out. IMO anyway

I wouldn't say phased out so much as immediately forgotten. Remember, Rush came out not long after.

2 hours ago, NeoZDuwang said:

I just wanna say that I'll be really disappointed if my favorite character that was introduced in Adventure 2 doesn't make an appearance in this arc... I'm talking about Chaclon of course

 

 

chaclon.jpg

Look at that smug little stinker

1 hour ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Yeah, I'm curious about Clutch too. Could this be an evil counterpart for Cream? Or just a shady Chao trainer?  

Why not both?

Quote

Indeed lol Of course, TTT was hardly ever renown for its characterization of Rouge. Here's hoping this arc does Rouge tagging along Amy and Cream a whole lot better

I mean technically, that had Blaze as the tag along with Rouge ad the antagonist.

1 hour ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Yeah, I'm curious about Clutch too. Could this be an evil counterpart for Cream? Or just a shady Chao trainer?  

Why not both?

Quote

Indeed lol Of course, TTT was hardly ever renown for its characterization of Rouge. Here's hoping this arc does Rouge tagging along Amy and Cream a whole lot better

I mean technically, that had Blaze as the tag along with Rouge ad the antagonist.

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I understand this topic is over, but I need to write this before I forget:

3 hours ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

Granted, maybe I'm just being irrationally resentful of Gemerl for the same reason I had become resentful of Sally in Post-Reboot Archie. Not helped by Gemerl literally doing what Sally did in Issue 26... All I can say is that I want Cream to stand out on her own and not get talked down to by other characters, since the opposite case isn't doing her character any favors. Sally was the most frequent offender in Post-Reboot, denying Cream from taking any action because "it's too dangerous" (nevermind Cream's canonical involvement in the no less dangerous events of Advance 2 & 3, Heroes, Battle, and Rush) and taking over Cream's few moments of action (namely the climax to Issue 267, in which Cream's initiative to rescue the Freedom Fighters was overshadowed by Sally's "sympathy sobbing"). Gemerl committed the 'talking down to' with his own "it's too dangerous" in Issue 26, and his presence alone garnered more attention from fans in Issue 18 and Issue 27, both issues that were meant to be Cream's stories. 

Didn't Ian explain (initially) back then that Cream wasn't participating/Sally was denying because of her age? Or isn't trained to fight like Tails & Charmy?

I vaguely remember being annoyed by that. Even the recent Bumblekast had Ian and Kyle express confusion and annoyance at their age (which, if you've been a Sonic fan long enough should know, doesn't reflect RL and is an ambiguous stat to fill in their bio).

At least Gemerl being over-protective makes more sense. He's like a personal butler/bodyguard. Though I agree he shouldn't be too focused on over Cream.

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1 hour ago, Zaysho said:

I'm curious if they're pushing the bullshit scarcity with the covers on these trades as well.

Probably. They might be using Japan as a test market for this sort of thing since they don't have to print as many copies as in the US.

Or maybe because the printer is local to Japan, they have more ready access to the resources to pull this off without being too costly. 

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It admittedly probably won't be handled on trades the same way they're handled on monthlies, which is where a lot of my distaste for the practice comes from. I don't like variant covers on principle when they're designed to inflate sales numbers and give shops an excuse to overcharge people for already overpriced books because certain covers are printed in smaller quantities compared to standard covers. I'm just skeptical of it being a thing at all at this point, especially with IDW's track record of doing this crap in the first place.

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I realized something funny. Remember when in #28 Sonic tells Silver he needs specifically his help otherwise future is doomed?

Yeah, that's a bull.

1) Yes Silver is a only new element that  CAN help, but it doesn't mean he MUST be a solution. What if time traveler was Joe Scratchybum, loser with no powers or skills? Would Sonic try to desperately find use for him?

2) Silver already changed the past. Even if you're going to ignore Butterfly Effect and every small thing he did, in #11 he saved most of cast from falling to their doom. As far as we know Amy, Espio and maybe more guys would die, thus not being there to fight Deadly Six (and that's not counting lack of Rouges and Silver himself). Heck, he saved Sonic in #20.

I mean Super Silver was kinda necessary at the end, but that's just coincidence.

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Sonic's guess that Silver was the one factor that would lead to their victory was a fair one, and even without that logic it just makes sense to partner up with the only other guy who has a super form while Shadow is out of commission.

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How does Sonic even know Silver can go Super in this timeline? Unless it happened some other time off-screen aside from 06. Or maybe Sonic is aware of the "male hedgehogs only" rule

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Silver's future didn't have the Metal Virus until after the Metal Sonic fiasco iirc.

So Eggman went ahead with his plan and everything got fucked after Silver left in the original timeline. 

Silver coming back was the butterfly effect as it made Sonic aware that everything had already occurred, so it's easy to decide that Silver was needed if he was going to win.

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5 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

1) Yes Silver is a only new element that  CAN help, but it doesn't mean he MUST be a solution. What if time traveler was Joe Scratchybum, loser with no powers or skills? Would Sonic try to desperately find use for him?

I mean...yeah, probably? Sonic lays it out pretty clear, they lost in Silver's timeline, the only new factor in this go-around is Silver being present, so if there's any way out it'd make sense that it's got something to do with him. Same logic works whoever the time traveler is, regardless of what powers or abilities they may or may not have. Granted, what Silver changes so they can win could've been anything, butterfly effect and all, but they hadn't brought up the idea that Silver's presence could've been the deciding factor before, and it'd be lame to bring it up and then just say he's already done whatever was necessary.

That said I don't feel like the idea really pays off, because Silver doesn't do anything that's especially impactful or uniquely "him" aside from the out-of-nowhere ability to hoover up the virus.

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6 minutes ago, Your Vest Friend said:

It also doesn't quite make it clear why the future Silver saw was completely barren. If everyone got infected, wouldn't there be Zombot bodies shambling around? Nothing about the conclusion suggests they'd all disappear.

I think it was mentioned that the virus is evolving in a way that meant the zombots would eventually disintegrate.

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16 hours ago, Rouge_Witchy said:

i bet Ian Flynn wishes he never wrote the metal virus saga at this point.....feels extremely awkward during the covid-19 situation if you ask me

 

There is a part of me that wonders if it wouldhave been better if it had been done in Archie as originally planned so now it'd just be awkward in hindsight instead of uncomfortably timely. 

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Honestly, I can see why the future is totally barren in Silver’s timeline. The zombots would be more or less exact to The Silver Saga’s Prelates, the only real difference is the Zombots have evolved to a point where they’re beyond control compared to Enerjak Knuckles controlling the Prelates, and obviously how they infect others. Ian might’ve gone this road to differiate it a bit.

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13 minutes ago, Your Vest Friend said:

Ah okay. 

I suppose that would be over decades then, would have been awkward if that happened fast enough to see the characters start disintegrating. Would be funny though.

Yeah I just looked it up, it's in issue 25, Eggman says it'd take about 200 years. Silver shows up right after and basically says "yeah that's my time".

Coincidentally, I also noticed Silver wondering if his failures are dooming his time, so they were kind of maybe setting up him being vital to fixing things there, but it gets lost in...everything else.

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