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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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I don't agree that Cream's debut needed to be a part of the jumble that happened in the first season. Her debut was fine. 

Although, I love the idea of stretching things out, making the stories longer, and giving characters more scenes but when you do that people complain about it taking forever and moving too slow so hopefully we've gone past the point of needing anyone else in the main cast established.

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11 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Things can serve multiple purposes?

That they can: saying this once again this weekend SDA, the order of events can a say a decent amount about how things come to be and under what climate. I just can't see that being a reason considering what we've already known about the timeline and process of production for IDW compared to Archie.

I am curious how things like Pirate Plunder Panic, Spark of Life, and this upcoming Chao arc got pitched for lincensing approval, now that I think about it, but we'll at least find out the latter.

29 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I don't agree that Cream's debut needed to be a part of the jumble that happened in the first season. Her debut was fine. 

Although, I love the idea of stretching things out, making the stories longer, and giving characters more scenes but when you do that people complain about it taking forever and moving too slow so hopefully we've gone past the point of needing anyone else in the main cast established.

I suppose. Though the point about her, Omega, and Big has more to do with how people feel we should've gotten more downtown and side story issues after Metal was dealt.

Not only would it allow time to flesh out the material that were introduced and also introduce their smaller names, but it'd also be breathing room to establish who they all are and what the world is before it all gets threatened when Eggman returns with the completed Metal Virus.

Could've also cleaned up the finale issues according to get more of them since you're not squeezing in setup for that and also maybe free up Mr. Tinker for a few more appearances.

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1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I suppose. Though the point about her, Omega, and Big has more to do with how people feel we should've gotten more downtown and side story issues after Metal was dealt.

Not only would it allow time to flesh out the material that were introduced and also introduce their smaller names, but it'd also be breathing room to establish who they all are and what the world is before it all gets threatened when Eggman returns with the completed Metal Virus.

Could've also cleaned up the finale issues according to get more of them since you're not squeezing in setup for that and also maybe free up Mr. Tinker for a few more appearances.

You say that now, but at the time of that first arc coming out the issues introducing the characters wasn't met with a ton of enthusiasm on here by some. There was a definite push for something more serious or meaningful to happen so that they could start caring about the scrapes they were getting into. Doing what you're suggesting right now would not have been met with a ton of acceptance at the time.

It's interesting because I always champion things like this. I like the idea of longer arcs and more chances to show this stuff off but a lot of people don't and yet still suggest ideas that would only make getting to this point an even longer endeavor anyway. 

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Long arcs aren’t exactly the problem—or at least they shouldn’t be, but misblaming things tends to be a bad habit among a lot of people.

It’s really the pacing. Like, if the pandemic didn’t hit at the time it did, for example, the Metal Virus arc would’ve finished up sooner.

And to further emphasize how long arcs aren’t bad, let’s not forget House of Cards and it’s problems—it’s among the shortest arcs written, and yet we’ve given it just as much flak as the Iron Dominion arc (which I actually liked, but can’t deny that it had a ton of issues).

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2 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

You say that now, but at the time of that first arc coming out the issues introducing the characters wasn't met with a ton of enthusiasm on here by some. There was a definite push for something more serious or meaningful to happen so that they could start caring about the scrapes they were getting into. Doing what you're suggesting right now would not have been met with a ton of acceptance at the time.

Oh, was it? I must admit I'm blanking overall and just remember smaller complaints.

I mean it's possible to do serious and meaningful without going plague for an extended period of time and all, but that's besides the point.

2 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

It's interesting because I always champion things like this. I like the idea of longer arcs and more chances to show this stuff off but a lot of people don't and yet still suggest ideas that would only make getting to this point an even longer endeavor anyway. 

.

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I've followed this thread on and off since the IDW issues started coming out, and yeah, there definetly was a lot of complaints about each issue featuring the formula of Sonic + reintroducing an ally for an issue. It was only when the metal virus arc really kicked off, and we've now had a few issues with Sonic barely in them that particular issue has vanished. Not to mention from the summaries of #31-#34, it sounds like we're going to be getting some plots with Sonic not really involved in them, so it definetly feels like the book is confident enough to let other characters carry a story without needing Sonic present.

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3 minutes ago, Silvereyes said:

I've followed this thread on and off since the IDW issues started coming out, and yeah, there definetly was a lot of complaints about each issue featuring the formula of Sonic + reintroducing an ally for an issue. It was only when the metal virus arc really kicked off, and we've now had a few issues with Sonic barely in them that particular issue has vanished. Not to mention from the summaries of #31-#34, it sounds like we're going to be getting some plots with Sonic not really involved in them, so it definetly feels like the book is confident enough to let other characters carry a story without needing Sonic present.

Okay, that's one of the things I remember and it's also what I was trying to get across when I talk about having some more breathing room between the two sagas.

I just used Mr. Tinker as a quick example of something I recall people felt was wasted and wished there could've been more done with it before he inevitably became Eggman again.

That honestly applies for a couple of characters that would've been great to show now that the war was over: spotlight for the Chaotix daily operation, what Shadow is up to after all the fighting, and yes, adventures with any of the three dummied out characters. But the one I personally recall bringing up a couple of times was Amy working with the Restoration to fix the world, which could've given us some insight on her time as a leader and more importantly, shown her just helping people return to their lives.

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Tbh I may have enjoyed the first season more, I already posted it, didn't I? I also remember most people (outside of here) really liked those issues too. I agree with most criticisms, repetitive formula etc. No story progress within the first 4 issues etc. But still as introduction they really worked. I also enjoyed Battle for Angel Island for not introducing any more characters besides Starline. Things I didn't like in season 1: yeah we definitely could have gotten more of Mr Tinker, and literally the one flaw I can think of in the final arc was Metal's final form. That's it. 

However everything else was on point, interactions, fights, characterizations, art, mystery vibe for the villain plot, which I really hope comes back in some way. We even got a better Shadow treatment.

Things I didn't like, however,  in the Metal Virus: the moodyness of it, Deadly Six being an annoying joke again, Knuckles being not much present And not leaving the island, the final fight is once again in AIZ. Talk about repetitive. Silver also should have played an even bigger part. Big's debut in 25 was also underwhelming, I could have liked Ian's cameos idea but oh well. Still, I didn't mind it being expanded to the Zeti arc. And have Eggman as big bad in the epilogue for full circle. 

Now... I'm definitely intrigued by the next 2 arcs, it will use a variety of characters including Cream and Shadow... Nice, I hope the mystery aspect returns, and Bad Guys looks interesting, at this point I would have cut Zavok and only have the 4 comic exclusives, since Zavok may be similar to Mimic. I don't know.

One more thing: I hope the Freedom Fighters don't show up, I have thought about it and yeah, especially Sally, they would require to be protagonist and have a certain plot status quo. Sally would take over Amy's role basically. I think their time is done. But if they were to be rebooted hard, as occasional guest characters, I think they would have to be changed so drastically that their fans would no longer enjoy and recognise them anymore. Sally was supposed to be the leader and Sonic's love interest and a Princess for the main kingdom. I don't see how this fits into the world of Sonic anymore.

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3 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

Wow... I'm definitely intrigued by the next 2 arcs, it will use a variety of characters including Cream and Shadow... Nice, I hope the mystery aspect returns, and Bad Guys looks interesting, at this point I would have cut Zavok and only have the 4 comic exclusives, since Zavok may be similar to Mimic. I don't know.

First the Froggy shaped cloud, now shapeshifting? Where the hell were all these powers in Lost World? 

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One more thing: I hope the Freedom Fighters don't show up, 

No one said anything about the Freedom Fighters?

10 hours ago, NeoZDuwang said:

Oh is that...

  Reveal hidden contents

395119090_chaclon2.jpg.3cd13df5e7ae1c254d70db07b35802b3.jpg

CHACLON!?

 

"Scribble me like one of your Mercian Chao."

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13 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

One more thing: I hope the Freedom Fighters don't show up, I have thought about it and yeah, especially Sally, they would require to be protagonist and have a certain plot status quo.
 

Stop saying this like that’s actually going to happen. They don’t have to be the focus any more than literally any other character, and that can show up or be on the sidelines just as frequently—which they did numerous times back in Archie.

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Sally would take over Amy's role basically.

Because leading a whole resistance/restoration organization was totally her role to begin with and not Sally’s.
 

And, of course, that’s the only role Amy can ever have going for her despite the many other things she’s done in the same comic with Sally in it, and then some. 

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I think their time is done. But if they were to be rebooted hard, as occasional guest characters, I think they would have to be changed so drastically that their fans would no longer enjoy and recognise them anymore. Sally was supposed to be the leader and Sonic's love interest and a Princess for the main kingdom. I don't see how this fits into the world of Sonic anymore.

Basically the exact same way she was the first time she was rebooted? Where she wasn’t Sonic’s love interest? And it’s not like we can’t have more than one leader of a group: Sonic, Amy, Knuckles, Vector, Rouge—all of these characters are leaders of their own teams and in some cases bigger organizations. Sally being one isn’t going to change anything more than what’s already here, and it’s blatantly dishonest to say such, especially when you’ve read Archie comics to know this.

Like seriously, we’ve had a discussion about this earlier in this topic for you to pretend like this is something new to you. That you even admit to wanting them to be changed to the point their fans no longer enjoy and recognize them is you intentionally trying to stir things up.

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I don't see what's the matter since this discussion often comes back to the same things, same criticisms. I just wanted to express my dislike for the FFs again And that they would do more harm than good in the series in general, due to their nature and their role. My post was in response to the Rally campaign. And btw I talked about a lot of things in my post, not just about them.

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4 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

I don't see what's the matter since this discussion often comes back to the same things, same criticisms.

Because they don’t go back to the same things and the same criticisms. And you know it, so don’t pretend like you don’t see what the matter is.

You’re not sly with that stunt you pulled—your so called “criticisms” we’re stirring the same flames that started at the very beginning of this thread before Issue 1 was even released. There have been plenty of discussions in this topic about the Freedom Fighters being involved or not and in new roles without backhanded comments like yours being made to stir up drama.

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I just wanted to express my dislike for the FFs again And that they would do more harm than good in the series in general, due to their nature and their role. My post was in response to the Rally campaign.
 

So basically you were stirring the flames. Got it.

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And btw I talked about a lot of things in my post, not just about them.

You’re other things weren’t stirring any flames—that’s why that specific part got called out.

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17 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

One more thing: I hope the Freedom Fighters don't show up, I have thought about it and yeah, especially Sally, they would require to be protagonist and have a certain plot status quo. Sally would take over Amy's role basically. I think their time is done. But if they were to be rebooted hard, as occasional guest characters, I think they would have to be changed so drastically that their fans would no longer enjoy and recognise them anymore. Sally was supposed to be the leader and Sonic's love interest and a Princess for the main kingdom. I don't see how this fits into the world of Sonic anymore.

I'm just going to say the only way I'd want to see the Freedom Fighters again is if IDW began publishing a book set in the Archie continuity. I've brought it up before but there is precedent for books like that. Larry Hama's G.I. Joe is still going strong under IDW, Simon Furman revisited the Marvel Transformers series once for Regeneration One and is still doing so with a currently running series called Transformers '84: Secrets and Lies, the Image Comics Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series currently being reprinted as Urban Legends will be finished with three new issues by the same writer and artist as the 1996-1999 comic.

It's not impossible to continue from where Archie left off. Hell maybe that's even why Ian had to give up writing the main title. Apparently he and Adam Bryce Thomas are working on something secret.

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10 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

I don't see what's the matter since this discussion often comes back to the same things, same criticisms. I just wanted to express my dislike for the FFs again And that they would do more harm than good in the series in general, due to their nature and their role. My post was in response to the Rally campaign. And btw I talked about a lot of things in my post, not just about them.

Then do it somewhere else that's more appropriate. Do in the Archie, do it in Unpopular Opinions, hell, bring back something like the Canon Immigrant thread if you please.

Just actually try talking about things where they're appropriate, whether in topic or in context(the latter of which you could've even made).

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BumbleKast Questions I thought were interesting

 

Could nagus's magic cured the metal virus if it happened then?

Ian planned to have nagus die before all that.

Was the idea of having them sort of fuse into weird metalic goopy monsters on the question

Ian says no. But there was a scene planned where tangle was gonna get mushed, but sega said that's too harsh

Question about why scourge needed a super charged warp ring to travel from mobius to moebius and and the destructix didn't need it to travel from the no zone to mobeus

Traveling from world to world requires more oomph. The no zone is between world so its easier to travel. Compares it to walking from one person's house to another vs already being outside and walking into a home

Question about does he know what is and isn't canon.

Its less a list a more so a " ooops sega told me this isn't real " situation, but here is a short list

Knuckles and Chaotix isn't canon.

Sonic Chronicles isn't canon

Olympic series is probably not canon, if that isn't obvious

Other guy says it seems like most spin offs aren't considered canon. Ian Chimes in "yeah kinda"  and further goes to say that unless sonic team had a direct hand in it. You can safely say it isn't canon. Though occasionally weird things like Sonic R is actually canon. The list may change depending on who he asks at the time

Does shadow care about maria's wish anymore?

The impression Ian gets is that , coming out of shadow's game he wasn't going to be ruled by maria's dying wish or anyone. He was going to forge his own path. Self actualization and then he moves on. This bit is Particularly interesting he brings up 06 and talks about how mephilies says humanity will betray you and shadow goes " I don't care i'm going to do things my way" Ian Flynn says that's the direction he think's they are going with him. Current shadow maybe them misunderstanding why people liked 06 shadow. Oh no.

Does TSR come before or after forces?

He say's probably after. Probably shouldn't think so hard about it. Sega doesn't like them directly referencing the games

Takal's whole deal is apparently 3000 years ago. Emerl was found 4000 years ago. Chronicles suggest both were 4k but is now non canon. What's the deal?

Chroncles is non canon. Ignore it and the connection between gizoids and echdina.

Is there older material from archie you would like to reference? Can you?

He says Sega isn't into referencing past incarnations. Also archie might be in some legal limbo , isn't too sure. If things change in the future, he might talk to someone to see if he could do something. But until then, no.

 

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If Chronicles is non-canon, I think any elements exclusive to it are barred with it. 

Also, it's not shocking that Sonic R is canon when you consider that it falls under "games Sonic Team had a direct hand in". Seriously, look up the staff list; there's a good chunk of it comprising of familiar names from ST.

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Sonic 3D and Sonic R were made under similar conditions. Sonic Team did all the conceptual work, level design and so on, while Traveller's Tales handled the development.

I think in a previous podcast Ian said he was told Sonic R was canon when he was working on the "Sonic: Mega Drive" comics, which starred the classic versions of the characters and was released over a year before Sonic Forces.

So I wonder if today Sonic R would only be considered canon for Classic Sonic?

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49 minutes ago, Pengi said:

Sonic 3D and Sonic R were made under similar conditions. Sonic Team did all the conceptual work, level design and so on, while Traveller's Tales handled the development.

I think in a previous podcast Ian said he was told Sonic R was canon when he was working on the "Sonic: Mega Drive" comics, which starred the classic versions of the characters and was released over a year before Sonic Forces.

So I wonder if today Sonic R would only be considered canon for Classic Sonic?

It'd be hilarious if a timeline was ever released and revealed the only Classic Sonic games post-3&K that are canon to Modern Sonic's timeline are 3D Blast, R and Sonic the Fighters. 

I still think that in the split timeline that the Game Gear Games and Chaotix are canon to Classic Sonic's new "dimension".

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