Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Slashy]

 

15 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

 

I don't think Sonic Battle is good example for your argument, not only because of certain character moments and incorrect tutorials, but because the cutscenes are all non moving images and things happen that we don't actually see or completely understand until the characters give more exposition.

The dialogue and plot of Sonic Battle were incredibly good. There were multiple portraits to show expressions as well. You don't need pictures to tell a good story.

[Sonictrainer]

29 minutes ago, Slashy said:

The dialogue and plot of Sonic Battle were incredibly good. There were multiple portraits to show expressions as well. You don't need pictures to tell a good story.

3 poses of Shadow frowning, with 2 of them being the same pose except for a change of the arms, is not enough.

Also, compare the Death Egg destroying the star in Sonic Battle to Eggman cracking open the earth using the Cannon Energy Cannon in Sonic Unleashed. Which one is better?

[Slashy]

8 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

3 poses of Shadow frowning, with 2 of them being the same pose except for a change of the arms, is not enough.

Also, compare the Death Egg destroying the star in Sonic Battle to Eggman cracking open the earth using the Cannon Energy Cannon in Sonic Unleashed. Which one is better?

A more exciting scene doesn't mean a better story. If Battle had a bigger budget it would probably be more exciting but that wouldn't necessarily make the story better.

[Sonictrainer]

3 minutes ago, Slashy said:

A more exciting scene doesn't mean a better story. If Battle had a bigger budget it would probably be more exciting but that wouldn't necessarily make the story better.

It's the exact same scene except in Battle, you don't see the impact of the cannon.

It's like the 6 year timeskip in Forces. They tell and they don't show.

Imagine if Eggman & Starline tested out the Metal Virus for the first time...and we never see the small animals get infected. The camera just focuses on Eggman and Starline for 2 pages.

Also, IIRC, wasn't the whole point of Shadow's Chapter to prevent what happens in Emerl's Chapter?

[Slashy]

19 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

It's the exact same scene except in Battle, you don't see the impact of the cannon.

It's like the 6 year timeskip in Forces. They tell and they don't show.

Imagine if Eggman & Starline tested out the Metal Virus for the first time...and we never see the small animals get infected. The camera just focuses on Eggman and Starline for 2 pages.

Also, IIRC, wasn't the whole point of Shadow's Chapter to prevent what happens in Emerl's Chapter?

We don't need to know how Eggman took over the world in Forces, we get an idea from the opening cutscene. The bigger problem was having Sonic immediately come back and Tails being useless.

If Sonic IDW was a novel and had great dialogue then I wouldn't mind. Heck great dialogue could provide ominous foreshadowing making us more tense as we don't know what the virus was capable of until Eggman dumps it on a town. Many horror movies avoid showing the monster till the end to drive up the suspense for example.

[Sonictrainer]

4 minutes ago, Slashy said:

We don't need to know how Eggman took over the world in Forces, we get an idea from the opening cutscene.

How?

We don't know jack about Infinite until halfway through the game at Stage 15. Even though the Phantom Ruby is hinted at the end of Stage 10, the way it works in Sonic Mania is different in Sonic Forces.

Did being around Super Sonic and the Chaos Emeralds in the Egg Reverie Zone accidentally super charge the Phantom Ruby, which is why it looks different in both games?

Did Eggman make prototypes of the Phantom Ruby and then mass produce Phantom Badniks in different parts of the world?

Did he use the Prototypes to change the Zones, like the Desertified Green Hill Zone?

How much range does Infinite's illusions have? Can they span a whole country? How far away can they be from Infinite? Do the Prototype Phantom Rubies increase his range and power?

Why did Infinite only make copies of Shadow, Zavok, Chaos Zero, & Metal Sonic? Why not make copies of Sonic? He's captured now and no one would know the difference.

Did Eggman capture people and replace them with Infinite's illusions? Were entire cities taken under control in secret?

We don't know.

Also, me and a number of fans would loved to see Eggman win for 6 months straight.

44 minutes ago, Slashy said:

If Sonic IDW was a novel and had great dialogue then I wouldn't mind. Heck great dialogue could provide ominous foreshadowing making us more tense as we don't know what the virus was capable of until Eggman dumps it on a town. Many horror movies avoid showing the monster till the end to drive up the suspensen for example.

Imagine going through this entire arc and never seeing a Zombot.

You're just told about them and the camera always focuses too close to other characters' faces whenever they're surrounded or moves away from them so you can't see them.

You never see them on any covers or any panels.

You're told about them but you never see them.

[Slashy]

25 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Imagine going through this entire arc and never seeing a Zombot.

You're just told about them and the camera always focuses too close to other characters' faces whenever they're surrounded or moves away from them so you can't see them.

You never see them on any covers or any panels.

You're told about them but you never see them.

I only mentioned holding off showing the zombots until Eggman dumps the virus on a town. I only mentioned horror movies hiding the monster till the end as an example because horror movies do that.

Ironically the example you provided sounds awesome. If we were left with only their destruction and character reactions to know what the zombots were capable of, we would very likely have a far scarier story than we have now.

[Sonictrainer]

19 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I only mentioned holding off showing the zombots until Eggman dumps the virus on a town. I only mentioned horror movies hiding the monster till the end as an example because horror movies do that.

Ironically the example you provided sounds awesome. If we were left with only their destruction and character reactions to know what the zombots were capable of, we would very likely have a far scarier story than we have now.

You don't think anyone wouldn't complain about not seeing Zombots for 16 issues?

[Slashy]

1 minute ago, Sonictrainer said:

You don't think anyone wouldn't complain about not seeing Zombots for 16 issues?

Maybe don't make the story 16 issues long?

[DabigRG]

A comic's two main disadvantages is that it lacks audio and animation compared to convey whatever is about; Though that first one is arguably a bonus in some cases because that means there isn't any bad voice acting to getting in gmthe way for some people. However, that also means more of the effort goes into telling it's story with restricted presentation since that's the baseline of it.

If an adaptation of Lost World was allowed to happen, for example, there's at least a 60% chance it'd be superior to the game because things are a lot more cohesive and expressive compared to the disjointedness of the cutscenes, which mean critical plot elements would be better developed and executed.

The examples with the Black Arms and Unleashed are interesting finger raisers because the former is simply a concept rather than the entire product and the latter was more of a backdrop with some limitation.

And I've already said my piece on Administrator Amy.

 

[StaticMania]

Zombies don't need to be hidden like typical horror creeps, because it's usually the amount of them that makes them scary and not just the fact that they "can" infect you.

A small amount of build up is fine, but it's not like they're ghosts or slasher villains.

[DabigRG]

Oh and a few games>comic>some games>Advance/Rush/Battle when it comes to presentation.

[Slashy]

1 minute ago, DabigRG said:

Oh and a few games>comic>some games>Advance/Rush/Battle when it comes to presentation.

I know Battle is lacking in presentation, but I would argue it has one of the best storylines in the entire series with amazing dialogue. Using Emerl as a focal character to learn from the rest of the cast was an amazing way to make everyone shine.

[Kaotic Kanine]

4 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I'm not saying Amy was particularly interesting as a commander, but they're axing it before they even really did anything with it.

Here's the funny thing; reason why I'm so insistent on Amy no longer being the Resistance/Restoration commander (aside from how it made her act and behave in ways that just aren't how she normally acts and behaves) is that I want a proper continuation of Amy's character after Heroes; the game which saw her become a bonafide hero who could keep up with Sonic, kick ass just as well as the rest of the main players, and even form her own adventuring team (with Cream as a dedicated sidekick for Amy to mentor over). All the while remaining as the energetic and cheerful girl with an open crush that she is supposed to be. That should've lead to many interesting things for Amy, to say the least, but of course SEGA had to turn her back into a strict support for Sonic, and are now only making her worse. Post-Reboot was going in the direction I desired, but that in itself got cut short, so naturally I was hoping IDW would continue what was left off. And suffice to say, it was something completely different that I always felt was uninteresting in comparison, but made Amy behave almost the opposite of her normal self. Like, I can't even buy the commander role as a natural conclusion for Amy's story because it would be more apt if she became more like Sonic; a powerful hero constantly wandering the world, helping people along the way, and being capable of directly saving the world. The commander role would be a more natural conclusion for (sorry for playing this comparison again) Sally, going from the leader of a small resistance group to the leader of a global heroic organization, such as the Resistance/Restoration 

I guess genuinely interesting things could've been done with Commander!Amy and it simply wasn't achieved before it got canned. But, like I said many times, the role was making Amy act more like a contrast to her character, being logic-minded and tactical/strategic rather than emotional and a risk taker not unlike Sonic, and this is after the games and Boom already portrayed Amy as much different from her original self. I'm just tired of Amy being made into different characters than her actual self, just as Superman fans are understandably beyond done with the "evil Superman" trend. And, as Shadowlax pointed out, the comic had three years to do truly interesting things with Commander!Amy but never really did so: even during a zombie apocalypse, when a commander figure would be most relevant and crucial. So, too little too late I'm afraid. Best to go back to a take on Amy that works better with her established character, has worked before, and has more "interest potential" than being a commander

Okay, this will be the last post I make about Amy in here for a good while, I swear

Edited September 3, 2020 by Kaotic Kanine

[Slashy]

I just want this resistance/restoration stuff forgotten about and just have Sonic and friends going on adventures.

[Kuzu]

Look, if they make Amy interesting fine. If not...well, I can go back to just ignoring her

[shdowhunt60]

I feel like the thing with IDW!Amy is that it really does feel like Ian is trying to reconcile her role in Forces, and quite hasn't gotten to that point yet. 

When I think of a logical extension of her portrayal in the Adventure games into the early 2000's... I don't know, I kinda lean towards how she was in Post-Reboot Archie. Amy's at her best when she provides emotional support to people who need it. She has leadership qualities, but I think it's one thing to position her as a leader of a team versus being a leader of a global resistance network.

But there's a ton of issues that I have when it comes to "The Resistance", as portrayed by Sonic Forces. It's a different discussion, but it does kind of scream "This sounded like a cool idea, but wasn't thought about beyond a surface level".

[Dr. Detective]

Is the mere act of changing leadership positions being taken as something that's irresponsible of her? If so, I don't know how fair that is. Pigeon-holing her into this position as something she needs to do forever doesn't exactly seem right. If the comic ends up portraying it as her dumping it on Jewel and peacing out without a proper, smooth transition on the part of the two individuals, then I can see the argument against the way it was done but she said in the preview that she wasn't going to do that. 

Plus, I kind of feel like I'm one of the few here that was expecting this happen. Not just because Ian almost, basically straight up said he was planning to do something like this in one of his Bumblekasts way back when we were in the middle of the Zombot Arc, but also because I kind of just assumed that the natural conclusion to the super-stressed out Amy stuff was going to be this. You know, when Cream walks in and says "Break time Ms. Amy" and Amy's response is, "Yes please. How long do I get? Five minutes? Weeks? Years?!" it kind of tells me that she's not in a position she particularly enjoys being in. So I do take issue with the hypothesis that it was done for the sake of being reactionary to the complaints. 

Like, when asked who he'd have made the leader in Forces, the person he chose was Vector. The Amy thing here is going off of how the actual portrayal played out in Forces where Knuckles (supposedly) lead but Amy kept chiming in as the actual voice of reason for most of it. Now with this, it seems the last dregs of what was there is finally being fazed out, which I'm also for. 

I will say that whether she was good at it, is up to us though. Ian says she isn't but I dunno, it seemed like she did about as well as you could have expected her to given the circumstances. 

When it comes to Amy in particular, I've liked her portrayal in the book. I don't see her being stressed about the position as her having lost her bubbly traits but rather her suppressing them for the sake of what she has to do. At the very least, she never felt like Sally to me. I do still find Amy as she is here to be more approachable than I did her. 

[Slashy]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Why should Amy suppress those traits when people need that from her?

[StaticMania]

Being super bubbly isn't gonna get the paper work done.

And any character like her who ends up in a position like that often finds themselves repressing their most active traits due to what the role requires, it's a cliche...and then at the end of the episode they go back to their normal selves.

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Slashy said:

Why should Amy suppress those traits when people need that from her?

Whether she should have or shouldn't have isn't really the issue. I didn't mean to imply she did it willingly. It's an expected and plausible reaction to being put into an intensely stressful situation. Also, I'm not even of the opinion that it was done in such a way that it completely left her original personality in an endless void. You know, I saw how she handled that conversation with Cream after she asked about a break. It didn't end with her being all cold, distant, and business-like with her. She got emotional, she got happy, and she gave her a bubbly little hug. She definitely knew when to do it when it was appropriate. 

Perhaps other people have a different opinion about how much it was toned down but I could still tell it was Amy. Perhaps more of what you'd like to see can come to fruition now though. Hopefully, that'll make you all happy. 

I can only offer so much input since I'm not a huge Amy fan, despite liking her.

 

[Slashy]

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Being super bubbly isn't gonna get the paper work done.

And any character like her who ends up in a position like that often finds themselves repressing their most active traits due to what the role requires, it's a cliche...and then at the end of the episode they go back to their normal selves.

1. Suppressing her bubbly nature doesn't get the work done any faster. You can be bubbly and do paperwork.

2. Why is there paperwork? The resistance/restoration isn't a government organization, why is there so much bureaucracy?

[StaticMania]

1 minute ago, Slashy said:

You can be bubbly and do paperwork.

She probably was at first...

The point is that it's taxing after a while, which is why she's not.

[Slashy]

1 minute ago, StaticMania said:

She probably was at first...

The point is that it's taxing after a while, which is why she's not.

We never see anyone help her for one. We never see her bubly at the start aside from brief flirting with Sonic and some tender moments that have to be brought out by Cream.

[Sonictrainer]

6 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Why is there paperwork? The resistance/restoration isn't a government organization, why is there so much bureaucracy?

People got to get paid.

Food, clothes, & shelter isn't going to pay for itself.