Jump to content
Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

Recommended Posts

I'm kinda surprised how much play Burning Blaze is getting. Sega pretends like she doesn't exist sometimes, but during the IDW run she has been front and center.

Makes sense for a ton of reasons, and it helps space out Super Sonic which is good for keeping him fresh.

Interesting to see a Jeweled scepter cameo in that cover. Wonder if they are gonna do anything with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About newest cover: I do love "put every character" covers, but I wonder if we don't do that a little to often.

Yes, I get it, Sonic has a lot of characters. It still blends a little.

Remember this cover? It has only few characters, and because of that they get do something, not just pose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Shadow Chaos Control said:

Shadow was going to take Amy’s place how? 

The original solicit had Cream, Shadow, and Rouge(Team _____ from the first two Riders games) going to the Chao Races together, with no mention of Amy(or Gemerl, but he's a tagalong anyway). The next solicit had Amy in his place and a later one brought him back up as investigating a lead on Eggman.

So basically, it was the Dark Duo actually supporting Cream and I recall the obvious connotation being that they could potentially discuss what happened before and during the Metal Virus outbreak regarding Tinker and his jackass moment, giving us a rare combo with Shadow and Rouge on the side talking things out.

 

That and his Chao's presence here was basically living up to something Flynn wanted to see in the comic at some point, except he would've been actually participating in something fun for once.

6 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I'm kinda surprised how much play Burning Blaze is getting. Sega pretends like she doesn't exist sometimes, but during the IDW run she has been front and center.

Makes sense for a ton of reasons, and it helps space out Super Sonic which is good for keeping him fresh.

Her being their Guardian was discussed as something of an emergency trump card here, so it makes some sense.

6 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Interesting to see a Jeweled scepter cameo in that cover. Wonder if they are gonna do anything with that?

I honestly didn't notice that.

I kinda doubt that'll be relevant in the story proper, but then we don't have a comprehensive grasp on what the arc is actually about.

6 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

About newest cover: I do love "put every character" covers, but I wonder if we don't do that a little to often.

Yes, I get it, Sonic has a lot of characters. It still blends a little.

Remember this cover? It has only few characters, and because of that they get do something, not just pose.

That is a very good point-less is more. And we had a fair few of lately anyway.

Also, I always wondered, what is Sally even fistpumping about there?  :lol:

2 hours ago, Jack out of the comics! said:

For those judging Shadow's presence in issue 33: it's not the full story, in fact it's just the beginning, we can't say if Shadow is pointless yet.

I acknowledged that. I just also don't have another reason to extend courtesy to Shadow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

So here's a theory I was throwing around on Discord:

So IDW is calling this new collection, "The IDW Collection" which is something they've only done for their TMNT and Transformers line, and that was to differentiate the stories from the classic issues which they eventually republished. So is it possible that IDW is future proofing Sonic for republishing older material? Maybe an Archie or Fleetway collection?

Fleetway seems like it would be simpler considering the mess Archie is in, but it's a nice thought.

I'm hoping they reprint the post-reboot material. It could fit nicely into a 3-4 volume hardcover of its own. Collect 16 issues a volume of both Sonic and Sonic Universe and title it "Sonic The Shattered World Saga".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, DabigRG said:
Spoiler

 

Oh I noticed Shadow was in this issue to get worf effected once again And I also don't care

Like, on a three strike system of acceptance or caring, shadow probably has about a four. Reason number one its Shadow Reason number two it's post 2015/IDW Shadow Reason number three this issue is supposed to be about grounded heroines is like Amy and Cream and Reason number four as a bonus he was a part of the original solicit for this very main story but was quickly taken out on favor of Amy.

I'm reserving judgment on this issue specifically because unlike other issues it's intended to be a two-parter and then therefore not complete I already just going off of my future blanket actual storytelling stuff aside Shadow does not need to be in this issue. This was supposed to be about Beta Team Rose going Chao Racing as the A plot and Shadow had a chance to be a part of that as original intended, given the presence of the Shadow Chao from Sonic channel. But combining everything that's been wrong with him for the past 5 years with IDW's apparent inability to do backup stories, he adds nothing to this story thus far and arguably plays a small but substantiable part in weakening it. 

Here comes a thought: Why wasn't it Cream or Gemerl who spotted and chased the parka villain? They were both present in the issue in the company of Rouge and Cream's spotlight in the Zombot arc was said to carry over a bit here. And if it does have something to do with the Gizoids, then Gemerl's presence here would be more relevant.

 

 

Spoiler

Huh, now that you mention it, I'm starting to be bothered more by Shadow's presence in this arc rather than Gemerl. The robot still annoys me, cause he inherently limits Cream's usefulness, not helped by his overprotectiveness, and is redundant in role with Cheese, Amy, and Rouge present alongside Cream (and I know I'm not alone about Gemerl here; a member of a Cream Discord I'm in ranted about Gemerl and how he holds back Cream's rep lol). But Shadow is even more unnecessary! Maybe the story will end up giving his presence meaning, but even then he's still one more character in a story that is already packed with characters (Amy, Rouge, Cream, Sonic, Tails, and soon-to-be-introduced Belle. And there's also Clutch). A single comic issue can only give so much focus to individual characters, and ultimately I'd rather they focus on Amy, Cream, and Rouge: not just out of personal bias but because those three have never been the stars of their own story. This is their time to shine, and I feel that the sub-plot with Sonic and Tails is going to interfere with that. Tossing Shadow into the mix is just further interference from their spotlight. And, it's like, who knows when at least Cream and Rouge will get to be the mains of a story again, and this time without Sonic and/or Shadow taking page-time...

 

Edited by Kaotic Kanine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm probably the only one exception who would have preferred if the story was about Team Dark with Cream replacing Omega, rather than having Amy in it for the sake of they are all girls.

Spoiler

Wathever, I agree that with the current cast, Shadow is kinda pointless and his role could have been taken by Cream or Gemerl to make them more active in the story and overall more useful.

I don't get the hate of Gemerl by Cream fans, I already said it in the past but honestly think that Cream and Gemerl are a cool team and IMO Gemerl could help Cream to show up more if done right (I think that Gemerl being overprotective is actually a flaw that can be used as a way to put the two characters against each other in a friendly fight). I think that Vanilla does more harm to the character of Cream than Gemerl does. Like, imagine if that scene at the beginning of the issue was Amy interacting with Cream directly, instead of talking to the phone with Vanilla. "We need Cream and Cheese, let's go to their home and meet them directly". I'm not saying that Vanilla should not exist at all, but her presence should be a lot less frequent, because she limits what Cream can do, and when the interaction with Cream goes through Vanilla, Cream becomes a very passive character that's almost just a plot tool rather than an actual character.

Spoiler

Later in the issue, a similar situation (Cream being very passive and her role being played through other characters) happend with Rouge too, but at least there was an excuse for that, kinda. It still annoyed me a bit, basically Cream did nothing in the issue aside of being passively manipulated by other people. Unless you count cheering cheese up (with cheesy words, pun intended) from the crowd.

This said, I think that hating Gemerl because of Cream is not much different than hating Vector because of Charmy... it's not even exactly the same thing, but I think it makes the point clear.

 

On 10/22/2020 at 7:02 AM, KoDaiko said:

(there was another one about Ian wanting Zeena to stomp/kick Cream on the floor to make sure people hate her, but Sega said do not hurt the child)

What's the point of a character who can't fight and can't be hurt, or can't even directly interact with other characters? This is what I mean when I say that I don't like how Cream is portrayed in recent stuff.

Especially when she does the boaster against the bad guys but at the end she does near to nothing to fight or defeat them (in the metal virus arc she did it at least twice, the worst time was at the end of the arc against Zavok, when she says him to give up because his evil friends were all defeated). That's very annoying, it's like, Shadow level of boasting, but without even trying to be credible.

 

I like Cream, she's actually one of my favorite characters, but sometimes I feel like the Cream I liked was only in the Advance games (and I mean the platformers, not Battle) and all other iterations of her I don't like, they almost never get her right (at least IMO). Sorry for the rant, I don't mean to bring negativity to the thread, just my two cents about Cream since @DabigRG quoted me from the Cream thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Iko said:

...a very passive character...

That's literally the point...

As the only character with a parent and actually acts like a kid who has a pretty normal life, this was unavoidable even if it wasn't...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

That's literally the point...

As the only character with a parent and actually acts like a kid who has a pretty normal life, this was unavoidable even if it wasn't...

Though she doesn't have to be passive.

Surely she wasn't passive in Sonic Advance 2 (the small cutscenes it had), nor she was passive in Sonic Battle (despite how I dislike her obsessive pacifism in that game), nor she was passive in Sonic Rush, where she was almost hyperactive instead, and persuaded Blaze into becoming her friend plus hosted her at home against her will, even before she became a friend of Sonic & Co.

Tails is 8, Amy is 12, Charmy is 6 just like Cream, none of them have to be passive in order to exist. It's not like they have no parents, it's just that their parents are not mentioned because they are not useful to the story. It's unknown if they have parents, we don't need to know; it's even unknown if Cream has a father, because Vanilla was shown only due to her being kidnapped in Sonic Advance 2, we had no reason to know about Cream's father because he has no role in the story, so he just isn't mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going off topic about Cream's character (sorry guys/gals), but it's kinda sad that Russian fans only got first four issues of IDW STH, even though at some point it was discussed that Diamond Dust team (which still does unofficial translations of the series) could arrange things with SEGA and IDW for licensing in my country. Unfortunately, it was revealed that a big publisher got the said license instead and because of it, there's no way the team could get rights to release issues 5+ legally. I wonder if other non-english countries got the same problem (as is - limited run). Again, I'm sorry for interrupting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Iko said:

Though she doesn't have to be passive.

Surely she wasn't passive in Sonic Advance 2 (the small cutscenes it had), nor she was passive in Sonic Battle (despite how I dislike her obsessive pacifism in that game), nor she was passive in Sonic Rush, where she was almost hyperactive instead, and persuaded Blaze into becoming her friend plus hosted her at home against her will, even before she became a friend of Sonic & Co.

Tails is 8, Amy is 12, Charmy is 6 just like Cream, none of them have to be passive in order to exist. It's not like they have no parents, it's just that their parents are not mentioned because they are not useful to the story. It's unknown if they have parents, we don't need to know; it's even unknown if Cream has a father, because Vanilla was shown only due to her being kidnapped in Sonic Advance 2, we had no reason to know about Cream's father because he has no role in the story, so he just isn't mentioned.

I brought this up on another site last week...it's really just how the character functions; she designed to be a passive kid to the more bold and brave adult/teenaged characters. 

 

There's a reason kid characters tend to be considered the weakest links in shows they're in unless its about them :V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jumping around here, I know, but I have other stuff to say about our latest "antagonist."

Spoiler

Barring one possibility that I'll try to acknowledge at the end, I don't think Clutch is really meant to have much presence in this story or perhaps beyond. Plainly speaking, he is likely a mere facility for this story to happen--a bait and switch. This is especially notable when you consider how overly ragged his design for his mundane affability--a creepier Dodon Pa, if you will-- alongside recent covers making it clear there will be a bit more cohesion then the current story mentality would bely.

I see his part next issue ending one of three ways, two of which are fairly open and shut.

Spoiler

He approaches Rouge about their deal, hoping to take Cheese into his care regardless of how the races turned out. This will be Cream's time to shine, maintaining their perspective that Cheese is not an prize, animal, or even a pet--here's her friend and as long as he wants to be with her, he's certainly not something to trade away. Clutch's reaction (and likely the ending) will go one for two ways:

  • He becomes frantic and begins making greater offers to Rouge's amusement, being left begging for the opportunity as the heroines leave.
  • He gracefully respects their decision, saying there will always be exceptional Chao but complementing the bond between Cream&Cheese and one of the finest treasures he's seen.
    • Alternatively, he mutters under his breathe that no Chao as valuable as that one should remain out if his collection.

In other news, here's something I considered recently:

Spoiler

What if clutch is actually Mimic? 
Its been a while, but I seem to recall one key flaw of his camouflage is that at least part of his natural appearance remains in his metamorphosis. And the most notable aspect of Clutch's design, aside form his protuding fangs of bling, is his black and grey eyes.
Add in what we observed from the parka villain's encounter with Shadow, suspected in light of issues to come, and have confirmed in the preview for Bad Guys #2 and Mimic could be using Clutch's reputation to aid the next phase in Starline's plans.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Spiritmaster said:

Going off topic about Cream's character (sorry guys/gals), but it's kinda sad that Russian fans only got first four issues of IDW STH, even though at some point it was discussed that Diamond Dust team (which still does unofficial translations of the series) could arrange things with SEGA and IDW for licensing in my country. Unfortunately, it was revealed that a big publisher got the said license instead and because of it, there's no way the team could get rights to release issues 5+ legally. I wonder if other non-english countries got the same problem (as is - limited run). Again, I'm sorry for interrupting.

No need to apologize dude lol This is the IDW Sonic thread, not Cream thread. Chime in about whatever you want, so long it's relevant to IDW Sonic ;) And that is sad. As far as I know, the only non-English country getting non-limited official translations is Japan. But I could be wrong about the "no limited run"... 

Back to Cream, for a bit 😅 I will admit that perhaps I'm being too harsh on Gemerl thanks to his "It's too dangerous spiel" in Issue 26 (with those words being directed at Cream having become a berserk button of mine ever since Reboot-Archie) and personally feeling he stole fan attention from Cream in Issue 18 and Issue 27 (like, both issues were meant to be Cream's times to shine, yet it seemed folks paid more attention to Gemerl). But thinking about it, he hasn't actually been too disruptive to Cream's character. Like, she still got to interact extensively with Amy in Issue 22, there was that touching moment with Whisper in Issue 25, defiantly standing up to Zavok in Issue 30, and landing a crucial hit on Eggman in 32, with Gemerl nowhere to be seen in those instances

However, I'm still annoyed with Gemerl's presence in this arc simply because I find him unnecessary; this is the "Rouge, Amy, and Cream/Cheese story", Gemerl's inclusion alongside Cream/Cheese inherently messes with that dynamic. Like, I want to see Cream talking most with Amy and Rouge, I want to see her doing fighting combos with those two should a fight arise. But with Gemerl there, how can I trust that he won't be stealing away some of those anticipated interactions? Having Cream talk with him most over Amy and Rouge, her doing combos with him, or her being most concerned with Gemerl over Amy and Rouge should something bad happen. I'm just gonna say, I got seriously annoyed with Cream being made to constantly be alongside Sally (with whom she almost solely spoke with) throughout Reboot-Archie, and with Gemerl sticking around with Cream for this story after having plenty of time to shine with her in the Metal Virus, I'm fearing he'll be a repeat of that. Let Cream get to be alongside her other friends without that robot accompanying her, just as I wished Cream got to go on a solo adventure with Amy or Bunnie in Reboot-Archie rather than having to stick by Sally

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/24/2020 at 9:42 AM, Kaotic Kanine said:
  Hide contents

Huh, now that you mention it, I'm starting to be bothered more by Shadow's presence in this arc rather than Gemerl. Maybe the story will end up giving his presence meaning, but even then he's still one more character in a story that is already packed with characters (Amy, Rouge, Cream, Sonic, Tails, and soon-to-be-introduced Belle. And there's also Clutch). A single comic issue can only give so much focus to individual characters, and ultimately I'd rather they focus on Amy, Cream, and Rouge: not just out of personal bias but because those three have never been the stars of their own story. This is their time to shine, and I feel that the sub-plot with Sonic and Tails is going to interfere with that. Tossing Shadow into the mix is just further interference from their spotlight. And, it's like, who knows when at least Cream and Rouge will get to be the mains of a story again, and this time without Sonic and/or Shadow taking page-time...

 

Pretty much.

On 10/24/2020 at 9:42 AM, Kaotic Kanine said:
Spoiler

The robot still annoys me, cause he inherently limits Cream's usefulness, not helped by his overprotectiveness, and is redundant in role with Cheese, Amy, and Rouge present alongside Cream (and I know I'm not alone about Gemerl here; a member of a Cream Discord I'm in ranted about Gemerl and how he holds back Cream's rep lol). But Shadow is even more unnecessary!

 

.

4 hours ago, Iko said:

I don't get the hate of Gemerl by Cream fans, I already said it in the past but honestly think that Cream and Gemerl are a cool team and IMO Gemerl could help Cream to show up more if done right (I think that Gemerl being overprotective is actually a flaw that can be used as a way to put the two characters against each other in a friendly fight).

This said, I think that hating Gemerl because of Cream is not much different than hating Vector because of Charmy... it's not even exactly the same thing, but I think it makes the point clear.

Espio would probably be a better fit for that analogy, but the point is clear enough I suppose.

Anyway, the concern is that Gemerl acting as a frequent protector for the rabbit means that he can always just swoop in to take whatever action scene could have Cream at the helm and potentially even attract whatever content her place of in a story has by virtue of what he is in comparison. While it's mostly a product of Kaotic's views of how the comics have fared in using her for some time, there is technically some merit to it.

I honestly didn't consider how it also impacts Cheese, who is a more intrinsic part of the character.

4 hours ago, Iko said:

I'm probably the only one exception who would have preferred if the story was about Team Dark with Cream replacing Omega, rather than having Amy in it for the sake of they are all girls.

That was the initial solicit, but it was quickly changed the next we heard of the issue.

4 hours ago, Iko said:

I think that Vanilla does more harm to the character of Cream than Gemerl does. Like, imagine if that scene at the beginning of the issue was Amy interacting with Cream directly, instead of talking to the phone with Vanilla. "We need Cream and Cheese, let's go to their home and meet them directly". I'm not saying that Vanilla should not exist at all, but her presence should be a lot less frequent, because she limits what Cream can do, and when the interaction with Cream goes through Vanilla, Cream becomes a very passive character that's almost just a plot tool rather than an actual character.

  Hide contents

Later in the issue, a similar situation (Cream being very passive and her role being played through other characters) happend with Rouge too, but at least there was an excuse for that, kinda. It still annoyed me a bit, basically Cream did nothing in the issue aside of being passively manipulated by other people. Unless you count cheering cheese up (with cheesy words, pun intended) from the crowd.

Or if it was at least Rouge having to make a case to Vanilla or Cream, for that matter.

 

4 hours ago, Iko said:

What's the point of a character who can't fight and can't be hurt, or can't even directly interact with other characters? This is what I mean when I say that I don't like how Cream is portrayed in recent stuff.

Especially when she does the boaster against the bad guys but at the end she does near to nothing to fight or defeat them (in the metal virus arc she did it at least twice, the worst time was at the end of the arc against Zavok, when she says him to give up because his evil friends were all defeated). That's very annoying, it's like, Shadow level of boasting, but without even trying to be credible.

 

I like Cream, she's actually one of my favorite characters, but sometimes I feel like the Cream I liked was only in the Advance games (and I mean the platformers, not Battle) and all other iterations of her I don't like, they almost never get her right (at least IMO). Sorry for the rant, I don't mean to bring negativity to the thread, just my two cents about Cream since @DabigRG quoted me from the Cream thread.

Yeah, I recall actually hoping/preferring if it was mostly a standoff between the two of them(who are opposite in tone without getting into Mephiles or Infinite), with the other heroes either being among those who support her or not being involved at all.

3 hours ago, Iko said:

Though she doesn't have to be passive.

Surely she wasn't passive in Sonic Advance 2 (the small cutscenes it had), nor she was passive in Sonic Battle (despite how I dislike her obsessive pacifism in that game), nor she was passive in Sonic Rush, where she was almost hyperactive instead, and persuaded Blaze into becoming her friend plus hosted her at home against her will, even before she became a friend of Sonic & Co.

Tails is 8, Amy is 12, Charmy is 6 just like Cream, none of them have to be passive in order to exist. It's not like they have no parents, it's just that their parents are not mentioned because they are not useful to the story. It's unknown if they have parents, we don't need to know; it's even unknown if Cream has a father, because Vanilla was shown only due to her being kidnapped in Sonic Advance 2, we had no reason to know about Cream's father because he has no role in the story, so he just isn't mentioned.

Yeah, I can't help but feel that Cream is a character where I notice there's some insistence on leaving them into some not very productive boxes. Like, isn't the whole point of a story seeing a character go through something that involves them trying to achieve something or at least dealing with some conflict? A character having passivity about them doesn't nor shouldn't mean they can't do anything--it just means they aren't super gung-ho about action compared to some others.

And yeah, it looks especially silly considering she actually did take quite of bit of action(which isn't exclusively about violence, btw) in most of her game appearances to start off with, including the one that had her go through an arc about being willing to fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Iko said:

What's the point of a character who can't fight and can't be hurt, or can't even directly interact with other characters? This is what I mean when I say that I don't like how Cream is portrayed in recent stuff.

Especially when she does the boaster against the bad guys but at the end she does near to nothing to fight or defeat them (in the metal virus arc she did it at least twice, the worst time was at the end of the arc against Zavok, when she says him to give up because his evil friends were all defeated). That's very annoying, it's like, Shadow level of boasting, but without even trying to be credible.

 

I like Cream, she's actually one of my favorite characters, but sometimes I feel like the Cream I liked was only in the Advance games (and I mean the platformers, not Battle) and all other iterations of her I don't like, they almost never get her right (at least IMO). Sorry for the rant, I don't mean to bring negativity to the thread, just my two cents about Cream since @DabigRG quoted me from the Cream thread.

I went back and checked. It was "don't go that far" "pls don't directly show violence against the child" to his original plan of Zeena kicking Cream while she was already down.

Here's the timestamp if you wanna hear that specific Q&A: (The question was about what Ian thought he wouldn't get away with and whatnot about IDW. )

Spoiler

(The Cream part is on #48:59)

 

My longest question/confusion about Cream & the more younger cast is.....at what age range are the considered/treated as "kids"? I can see Vanilla's concern of Cream more as a concerned mother-thing, but iirc in the Chao race they were told "we don't allow children to participate in this race". Maybe it was supposed to mean the specific race was for "adults" only, but makes me wonder...ok at what age are they considered & treated as equivalent to RL kids, and at what age do they stop questioning/be treated as mature?

I always assumed age worked differently/didn't mean anything in Sonic games (not in the WRONG way, mind you), and when Archie brought it up it was because the writers tend to base stuff on RL. I mean almost all of them are minors and act independently, the most obvious example being Tails driving & going on adventures. Would Amy who is a preteen be considered "too young" to enter the race too?

It only happens around Cream too, interestingly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

I went back and checked. It was "don't go that far" "pls don't directly show violence against the child" to his original plan of Zeena kicking Cream while she was already down.

Here's the timestamp if you wanna hear that specific Q&A: (The question was about what Ian thought he wouldn't get away with and whatnot about IDW. )

  Hide contents

(The Cream part is on #48:59)

 

My longest question/confusion about Cream & the more younger cast is.....at what age range are the considered/treated as "kids"? I can see Vanilla's concern of Cream more as a concerned mother-thing, but iirc in the Chao race they were told "we don't allow children to participate in this race". Maybe it was supposed to mean the specific race was for "adults" only, but makes me wonder...ok at what age are they considered & treated as equivalent to RL kids, and at what age do they stop questioning/be treated as mature?

I always assumed age worked differently/didn't mean anything in Sonic games (not in the WRONG way, mind you), and when Archie brought it up it was because the writers tend to base stuff on RL. I mean almost all of them are minors and act independently, the most obvious example being Tails driving & going on adventures. Would Amy who is a preteen be considered "too young" to enter the race too?

It only happens around Cream too, interestingly. 

It's worth noting that Rouge is one of the characters who is practically a legal adult by our standards, being 17 in her initial appearances and apparently turning 18 in later games, which is why she ultimately why she had to sign up under an alias. Clutch is also obvious an adult, so it checks out.

Also, Charmy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just throwing in my opinion, but I think by kids they mean "little kids". For example to adults someone who is 12 years old (Amy) or 15 (Sonic) are broadly viewed as kids because they aren't adults either in real life. But in terms of media (both western and Japanese), teenagers aren't treated with the same level of presumed innocence as younger kids. For example, a lot of RPGs or manga focus on older teenagers and treat them similar to adults and never think about them being a legal minor. Similarly it seems that if a teenage character gets punched/kicked/hurt by an evil character it isn't as big of an issue as showing the same direct violence against a child. In short, I think for awhile now teenagers have always been a gray area compared to children or adults. 

The tricky area are characters like Tails though. Tails is definitely in the "innocent child" box. And the characters call him "kid" or "kiddo". That being said, I don't think I have seen direct violence (being kicked, punched etc) against Tails even when he participates in lots of fights in a recent issues (both IDW and the last of Archie when he deaged) either. The closest thing is him being kicked by Honey in the Champions arc which is different in context like martial arts.

That's just my guess though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Child" is extremely contextual in Sonic and hard to pin down.

 

For all intents and purpose however, the cast are generally meant to be teenagers with thr same level of autonomy you'd expect from a series that focuses on them. The kid characters are quite obviously considered just that, children. They can be expected to handle some things, but usually have to rely on the older cast for protection. This is true even for Tails, even if he doesn't get it as bad as Cream or Charmy do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that is what I am saying. I feel like Cream and Charmy are 100% treated like children. Tails is sort of a mixed case in that he is treated as a child but they let him do more mildly dangerous tasks and the rest are just treated as teenagers with not a lot of restrictions on them even if they are minors by modern standards because that is how media in general treats most teenage characters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2020 at 8:20 PM, DabigRG said:

Jumping around here, I know, but I have other stuff to say about our latest "antagonist."

  Reveal hidden contents

Barring one possibility that I'll try to acknowledge at the end, I don't think Clutch is really meant to have much presence in this story or perhaps beyond. Plainly speaking, he is likely a mere facility for this story to happen--a bait and switch. This is especially notable when you consider how overly ragged his design for his mundane affability--a creepier Dodon Pa, if you will-- alongside recent covers making it clear there will be a bit more cohesion then the current story mentality would bely.

I see his part next issue ending one of three ways, two of which are fairly open and shut.

  Reveal hidden contents

He approaches Rouge about their deal, hoping to take Cheese into his care regardless of how the races turned out. This will be Cream's time to shine, maintaining their perspective that Cheese is not an prize, animal, or even a pet--here's her friend and as long as he wants to be with her, he's certainly not something to trade away. Clutch's reaction (and likely the ending) will go one for two ways:

  • He becomes frantic and begins making greater offers to Rouge's amusement, being left begging for the opportunity as the heroines leave.
  • He gracefully respects their decision, saying there will always be exceptional Chao but complementing the bond between Cream&Cheese and one of the finest treasures he's seen.
    • Alternatively, he mutters under his breathe that no Chao as valuable as that one should remain out if his collection.

In other news, here's something I considered recently:

  Hide contents

What if clutch is actually Mimic? 
Its been a while, but I seem to recall one key flaw of his camouflage is that at least part of his natural appearance remains in his metamorphosis. And the most notable aspect of Clutch's design, aside form his protuding fangs of bling, is his black and grey eyes.
Add in what we observed from the parka villain's encounter with Shadow, suspected in light of issues to come, and have confirmed in the preview for Bad Guys #2 and Mimic could be using Clutch's reputation to aid the next phase in Starline's plans.

 

Spoiler

Clutch isn't Mimic, if that were the case we would have seen the suctions on his hands. And the color of each character he shape shifts would be a little more duller sometimes.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of you are overthinking this.

 

Ages are irrelevant in Sonic. They just serve to say "this character is older than that one", the specific number doesn't matter. Rouge didn't use an alias because of her age, and I thought the issue made that pretty obvious- it's because she didn't want to immediately blare out WORLD FAMOUS THIEF ROUGE THE BAT IS HERE by using her own name. Tails is 8 but isn't treated as a child any more than Amy or most anyone else for it. Amy, for that matter, is 12, which is pretty much just as much as a child, but like everyone else that isn't used as an element of her character.

Cream is a child not because she's 6, but because her character is child. Her archetype is "sweet naïve polite young child". She's specifically designed to be a young child, act like one, and look like one. If you don't look at gameplay specifically, her motivation in her intro game is literally "I want my mommy", her motivation in her second game is "I want my poor pet", and after that she mostly serves as a secondary character to go "Miss Amy, please be more polite" because she's a prim and proper polite young child. In Sonic X her role by and large is entirely "the polite child who leans back from the action because she's a child". The only exception to any of this is Battle, where every character had their motivations heightened in order to justify the constant fighting. I see people here all the time decry Amy in Battle as exaggerated, why wouldn't Cream be too?

I mean, come on guys. They literally gave her a mother. The only character to have a mother. Because they're meant to make a pair of mother and child. Charmy's also 6 and doesn't have a mother, no questions are raised about him, because his role is brat, not polite and proper innocent child.

 

You may disagree with her being used like this, but the motivation is pretty obvious and clear, and has been so since 2003.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2020 at 10:10 AM, DabigRG said:

It's worth noting that Rouge is one of the characters who is practically a legal adult by our standards, being 17 in her initial appearances and apparently turning 18 in later games, which is why she ultimately why she had to sign up under an alias. Clutch is also obvious an adult, so it checks out.

Also, Charmy.

13 hours ago, Kuzu said:

"Child" is extremely contextual in Sonic and hard to pin down.

 

For all intents and purpose however, the cast are generally meant to be teenagers with thr same level of autonomy you'd expect from a series that focuses on them. The kid characters are quite obviously considered just that, children. They can be expected to handle some things, but usually have to rely on the older cast for protection. This is true even for Tails, even if he doesn't get it as bad as Cream or Charmy do.

12 hours ago, prowerboy26 said:

Well that is what I am saying. I feel like Cream and Charmy are 100% treated like children. Tails is sort of a mixed case in that he is treated as a child but they let him do more mildly dangerous tasks and the rest are just treated as teenagers with not a lot of restrictions on them even if they are minors by modern standards because that is how media in general treats most teenage characters.

We also have Marine who's 7, right in between Cream/Charmy & Tails (Idk the Rush series so I can't say anything about her). 

The reason I am conficted is because I feel the game had kept it pretty ambiguous. The characters still work w/o knowing their age (Charmy may be childish/hyperactive because he's 6, OR maybe that's just how he is), and are much too mature/fictional for their age, so specifically mentioning someone is too young creates a link to RL for me that raises so much questions on how stuff works in Sonic. If these are considered kids, why aren't these guys not? At what age would the "adults" be concerned about them running around alone? Should we be concerned Charmy as a "child" doesn't have a parent and is free to do whatever?

Also because many people (including me) gets annoyed at her not having any moments to shine, but if age is relevant then it would be a reasonable justification for her being restricted from doing anything. "She's usually pacifist/timid girl" or "Her guardians are overprotective" still has some opportunity for her to be involved.

EDIT: Sorry I'm busy rn so my thoughts aren't properly organized

2 hours ago, The KKM said:

Most of you are overthinking this.

Ages are irrelevant in Sonic. 

[...]

Cream is a child not because she's 6, but because her character is child. Her archetype is "sweet naïve polite young child". She's specifically designed to be a young child, act like one, and look like one. If you don't look at gameplay specifically, her motivation in her intro game is literally "I want my mommy", her motivation in her second game is "I want my poor pet", and after that she mostly serves as a secondary character to go "Miss Amy, please be more polite" because she's a prim and proper polite young child. 

[...]

You may disagree with her being used like this, but the motivation is pretty obvious and clear, and has been so since 2003.

Yeah I guess that makes more sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The KKM said:

...

I mean, come on guys. They literally gave her a mother. The only character to have a mother. Because they're meant to make a pair of mother and child. Charmy's also 6 and doesn't have a mother, no questions are raised about him, because his role is brat, not polite and proper innocent child.

 

You may disagree with her being used like this, but the motivation is pretty obvious and clear, and has been so since 2003.

I agree with the first part of the post, about child being part of Cream's character and actual age not being important.

Though, I don't think her having a mother plays anything significant in defining her character, or at least it was probably not originally intended to. In most of Cream's early games, if Vanilla appears, she only appears once or twice in some cutscenes at best, but she does not play any important role in the story (excluding Advance 2 where she's the focus). For example, in Sonic Advance 3 Vanilla only does a cameo in the secret ending, otherwise she's completely absent through the whole game and not even involved in the story, while Cream is still one of the main characters of the game; in many other games Cream appears without Vanilla.

In the live action movie, Sonic himself has an adoptive mother, kinda, though the thing does not affect the character too much aside of giving him a more detailed backstory.

BTW I'm not disagreeing with her acting and being treated like a child, my issue is with some specific traits that I feel are ruining the character, especially the excessive passiveness (that IMO is not a required trait for child characters, and was not part of the character in her early games). It's ok when the older characters assist and protect her, but when they completely steal her role and manipulate her to the point that she becomes pointless that's definitely wrong.

On the other hand, I like how they brought back being brave as a trait of her. That trait disappeared since Advance 2. After Sonic ignored her asking to save Vanilla from Eggman, Cream decided to go save her mother by herself and kinda succeded, at least until the true ending happend. That was cool, especially considering how she's supposed to be a weak character (despite she's OP in gameplay but I doubt about it being canon). I wish Cream was more often like that. Just don't translate "brave" with "arrogant with the villain", because that's IMO out of character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.