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Dejimon11

IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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I could swallow the jerk-Shadow if he wasn't so embarrassingly incompetent. I can work character with ego, as long as they can somehow back it up.

 

As of now Shadow failed at everything he tried to accomplish:
killing Eggman (right or wrong, it was still his goal)
stopping Neo (made things worse)
fighting Zombots (worse)
stopping Eggaman from escaping
and now taking down Starline or Clutch.
(and if you insist that killing Tinker would be a bad thing, then I still count this as attempting to kill).

If he'll decide to help with that avalanche, this will end with him taking Steve Rogers nap in the snow.

 

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I already said my piece on how this arc has shaped up this far, but I decided to look into the something. The solicits, though the entire 4part story is in fact called Chao Races and Badnik Bases, are pretty accurate at charting what we've seen this far. And yet, since we're effectively on the last part, it's funny to note how Shadow isn't mentioned or alluded to on any of them.

3 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Here's the full connected covers of Bad Guys alternate cover by Dskullyscrawls

Ep8mIQpXEA0nlWh?format=jpg&name=4096x409

Someone caption this

Lol, what is happening on the right side of that table?

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14 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:


stopping Neo (made things worse)

 

Did he though? Some of the characters on the ground may have thought so, but from where I am sitting Master Overlord was much easier to deal with than Super Neo.

As a Dragon, Neo had the glaring obvious weak spot to take advantage of. The heroes were able to come up with a plan of attack and bring him down. There is no head-on plan of attack for dealing with a character in a super state. Super Neo would have slaughtered the entire cast in a brawl.

If anything, Shadow did exactly what he needed to do to give the Heroes a shot at winning that fight. Without de powering Super Neo, they would have gotten blown out.

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I admit as someone who's more or less accepted Shadow's overly antagonistic portrayal IF there's a character beat down comming I more than welcome it because good lord does he need it(even though the metal virus SHOULD'VE done that already)

I'm very much a casual reader so I didn't realize the hate for IDW Shadow was vocal enough fir the writers to personally step in and comment on it but hopefully the rampant criticism will intice some positive changes for a character I loved so much during the Archie days 

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3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Going full trash dragon was his plan from the start. It wouldn't have been, if it was a downgrade from Super Neo.

Plans have holes.

As Starline later noted, Metal Sonic copied Eggman's biodata and thusly his reasoning. In Issue 18, Starline concluded and was more or less backed up by Orbots observations, that Eggman's scheme's fail due to his lack of ability to "plan or adapt to the long term". Any short term advantage to gaining the Dragon from wasn't worth the long term weakness that could be exploited. Metal's Master plan didn't account or adapt for that and in the end he lost. 

If he had stuck with Super Neo, he would have had a better shot at victory. Metal couldn't see the forest through the trees.

 

Regardless my point still stands. Shadows brash decision to tackle the biggest threat turned a situation with no path to victory, into one the heroes could manage. I wouldn't call what he did making things worse - even if it looked that way at the time.

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1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Plans have holes.

As Starline later noted, Metal Sonic copied Eggman's biodata and thusly his reasoning. In Issue 18, Starline concluded and was more or less backed up by Orbots observations, that Eggman's scheme's fail due to his lack of ability to "plan or adapt to the long term". Any short term advantage to gaining the Dragon from wasn't worth the long term weakness that could be exploited. Metal's Master plan didn't account or adapt for that and in the end he lost. 

If he had stuck with Super Neo, he would have had a better shot at victory. Metal couldn't see the forest through the trees.

 

Regardless my point still stands. Shadows brash decision to tackle the biggest threat turned a situation with no path to victory, into one the heroes could manage. I wouldn't call what he did making things worse - even if it looked that way at the time.

 

That's not how it's framed though; nobody went and was like "Thank goodness Shadow was there to help Metal Sonic transform so that we can beat him" and that only works in hindsight. 

I'm not going to go as far to say Shadow failed, but he didn't really accomplish anything either...at least intentionally. And even then, Sonic was the one who came up with the plan of dogpiling Metal, so the credit really should go to him honestly. Shadow just went along with it. 

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On 12/25/2020 at 1:53 PM, Iko said:

I wish the locations of the Advance games were revisited more often in games and other medias.

I was a bit disappointed that Ice Paradise was not shown in the Metal Virus arc (it was mentioned a few times but never shown), though this Toy Kingdom artwork is great.

There was that fakeout in TSR with “Ice Mountain” Zone.

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33 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

That's not how it's framed though; nobody went and was like "Thank goodness Shadow was there to help Metal Sonic transform so that we can beat him" and that only works in hindsight. 

I'm not going to go as far to say Shadow failed, but he didn't really accomplish anything either...at least intentionally. And even then, Sonic was the one who came up with the plan of dogpiling Metal, so the credit really should go to him honestly. Shadow just went along with it. 

Nobody ever stopped to give Silver credit for forcing Infinite to fumble the phantom ruby prototype that ended up saving everyone, but at the end of the day we as the audience are able to put 2 and 2 together big picture style and recognize his contribution to what otherwise may have well been a doomed endeavor. Shadow deserves the same credit in this case. I get that it was framed in such a way to make it seem like the stakes were even more dire, post evolution, but its not like Shadow did what he did for the credit anyway. He pressed the issue and forced and error. Even if it was somewhat unintended, its still a major reason as to why the heroes ended up winning in the end. Forced errors are a thing.  Sometimes the best strategy is to be the aggressor and wait for your opponent to make a mistake. Shadow is ultra aggressive by nature - so its a natural byproduct of his actions.

Even if you are pulling up short of calling this move a failure, too many people in here are quick to just pile this onto the list in an effort to mark IDW Shadow as a total fuck-up. To just level a blanket assumption that Shadow "failed" or "made the situation worse" is ignorant to the fact that his actions were the primary catalyst that set the heroes up for their eventual success. Dealing with Master Overlord was much more straightforward than having to finagle a way to stop Super Neo. 

I get that Shadow hasn't had the best batting average here lately, but I'm not about to dogpile on him for stuff that is undeserved. Especially when I feel the opposite is true. He deserves credit here if anything.

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38 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Nobody ever stopped to give Silver credit for forcing Infinite to fumble the phantom ruby prototype that ended up saving everyone, but at the end of the day we as the audience are able to put 2 and 2 together big picture style and recognize his contribution to what otherwise may have well been a doomed endeavor. Shadow deserves the same credit in this case. I get that it was framed in such a way to make it seem like the stakes were even more dire, post evolution, but its not like Shadow did what he did for the credit anyway. He pressed the issue and forced and error. Even if it was somewhat unintended, its still a major reason as to why the heroes ended up winning in the end. Forced errors are a thing.  Sometimes the best strategy is to be the aggressor and wait for your opponent to make a mistake. Shadow is ultra aggressive by nature - so its a natural byproduct of his actions.

Even if you are pulling up short of calling this move a failure, too many people in here are quick to just pile this onto the list in an effort to mark IDW Shadow as a total fuck-up. To just level a blanket assumption that Shadow "failed" or "made the situation worse" is ignorant to the fact that his actions were the primary catalyst that set the heroes up for their eventual success. Dealing with Master Overlord was much more straightforward than having to finagle a way to stop Super Neo. 

I get that Shadow hasn't had the best batting average here lately, but I'm not about to dogpile on him for stuff that is undeserved. Especially when I feel the opposite is true. He deserves credit here if anything.

 

To be perfectly honest, I think both interpretations really aren't valid; I get what you're saying with the whole Silver example, but they don't feel enough like genuine contributions for me to give them credit. They're more like happy little accidents that just so happened to line up. Contrived coincidences basically. Its on the same level as the piece of robot debris that ended up causing Eggman's mind control ray to malfunction in Colors. Sure, its something that benefits the good guys, but not at all in a way that's really satisfying, at least to me. If you wanna go ahead and give Shadow credit for it, be my guest but it's just kind of whatever to me. 

Think people are so quick to dogpile on Shadow because everyone is just so used to him being in control and accomplishing shit. It was a thing for so many years that while Sonic was just doing nothing, Shadow was the one getting shit done and learning about what was happening behind the scenes.  That's not longer the case tho, and he's just....there I guess?

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Shadow screwing up is fine with me but it doesn't mean much without some introspection. We got a really nice moment for that at the end of the zombot arc and hopefully this new issue goes where I'm thinking it will. I would like to get a 4 issue storyarc or a mini devoted to him at some point. I want to get a better idea of where he's at with everyone in this universe and where they might try to take his character. 

Evan taking over has come with some positive changes but the overall problem of juggling a few too many concepts/characters in one arc still persists. This is clearly more reigned in than what we were getting but I think it could do with less...stuff, still. I don't know. I'm still enjoying myself.

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This arc still feels somewhat...bloated. I was originally led to believe that we were going to focus on the Chao races, while Sonic, Tails, and Belle had their own mini arc. But the Chao races ended up not really mattering much, and Clutch supplanted for Starline as the main obstacle. So it just kind of feels all over the place. I still like it, but it feels very unfocused overall. 

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It feels the opposite of bloated to me but that's not really an issue. I'm still enjoying myself. The heart pumping, excitement jitters I had nearly every issue of the Metal Virus Saga haven't been around in a while but that's to be expected. This isn't that kind of arc, intentionally so. 

As for me, you all probably know what mini-series I'd want; an actual Chaotix Noir story with a mystery and a culprit and everything. 

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I feel like Starline is a massive issue with the arc in general. He just isn't needed. He pops in out of nowhere in a unrelated story, supplanting a new villain, and this is already after wearing his welcome out following both appearing in a ton of issues between #10-26, and Bad Guys right after. 

Plus it doesn't help that Starline's role here directly ties into Shadow's attitude once again, when I feel like if they'd just let Shadow investigate solo, and find the chao + Clutch, like he did in the previous issue, it would've looked far better for him. 

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1 minute ago, Ryannumber1Santa said:

I feel like Starline is a massive issue with the arc in general. He just isn't needed. He pops in out of nowhere in a unrelated story, supplanting a new villain, and this is already after wearing his welcome out following both appearing in a ton of issues between #10-26, and Bad Guys right after. 

Plus it doesn't help that Starline's role here directly ties into Shadow's attitude once again, when I feel like if they'd just let Shadow investigate solo, and find the chao + Clutch, like he did in the previous issue, it would've looked far better for him. 

Shadow just handling the situation and going home doesn't make for compelling storytelling either. At least something is happening here that might have an interesting payoff. 

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I feel like Dr. Starline appearing here, not only is to tie in with Bad Guys, but it's to set him up as the big bad for the next arc, like Belle is being introduced, it's all a start to season 3 I think.

If anything the filler part here is Clutch and the Chao races, which doesn't contribute to anything to the overall story other than rebuilding Omega. But that's just what I think. I don't even know why it's called Chao Races and Badnik Bases, they either should have splitted it up into 2 arcs, yeah then I agree, or change the name, because the story as it is focuses on... various things, but for me it's mainly about the introduction of a new character and set up for next antagonist for the next bigger saga.

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So how did Rouge and Tails free themselves? Seems like they just kinda did. Thought Rouge had like a nail file or something but it seems like they just told themselves they can get out of this and they went "Oh yeah.." Then did.

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7 hours ago, dbzfan7 said:

So how did Rouge and Tails free themselves? Seems like they just kinda did. Though Rouge had like a nail file or something but it seems like they just told themselves they can get out of this and they went "Oh yeah.." Then did.

Check back on the previous issue, just after where Tails wakes up and Rouge explains she was hypnotised, the panel after that Rouge was using a jagged piece of metal on the side of the rollercoaster cart to cut her ropes and Tails spotted what she was up to. It’s subtle and I didn’t spot it on the first readthrough.

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I literally didn't read any of the preview pages or the replies in this thread or on Twitter until right this minute. I just now found out about how Shadow is continuing to act like how Shadow has been acting.

I probably could have just assumed that though so basically nothing has changed.

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