Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[RedFox99]

1 minute ago, knuckles20 said:

I guess it helps that Charmy is under care of Team Chaotix and Cream is more under Sally's care with Vanilla's permission.

Good point and Yeah, I didn't got why Cream lived in the Sky Patrol and not with her mother when she barely does anything. 

[Heckboy]

The Sally/Cream thing really could've been an interesting exploration of Sally's character if handled well. Maybe have Cream actually prove herself capable and make Sally realize that, y'know, maybe she shouldn't be so overprotective of someone who has managed to fight Eggman before. Unfortunately the comic never actually allowed time to explore the dynamics of the Freedom Fighters because it was too concerned with shoving ten new characters into every issue cuz lore.

Or better yet, don't have someone like Cream be part of an already bloated team where she barely does anything, and instead have her show up when she actually has a role to play in a story, like any other non-Freedom Fighter character.

[RedFox99]

56 minutes ago, Mister X said:

The Sally/Cream thing really could've been an interesting exploration of Sally's character if handled well. Maybe have Cream actually prove herself capable and make Sally realize that, y'know, maybe she shouldn't be so overprotective of someone who has managed to fight Eggman before. Unfortunately the comic never actually allowed time to explore the dynamics of the Freedom Fighters because it was too concerned with shoving ten new characters into every issue cuz lore.

Or better yet, don't have someone like Cream be part of an already bloated team where she barely does anything, and instead have her show up when she actually has a role to play in a story, like any other non-Freedom Fighter character.

That could've been a nice idea for a short side-story. That's one of the problems with the Post-SGW series: it focused a bit too much on world-building and introductioning characters to develop them and the already-established cast.

[BlueSky]

It focused on worldbuilding because people were whining/mourning about the loss of all the old stuff that became unusable. Because of for example you know who...

...at least that's what I remember hearing about the stuff.

About age gaps, guys, young children especially are the kind of group where age really matters even on small differences. If not for anything else, it's a physical fact. Easiest way to see it is to take notice how often kids need to get new clothes.

That and Tails' been hanging around with Sonic for quite some time beore the whole "let's ask Vanilla a permission to get Cream onboard" thing. That and he's supposed to be too genius for his own good...

... and let's not start to deduce about the age Tails "was" when he got into the stuff, when it comes to things like this, Sonic=/=Sally like nothing else characteristically talking, Sonic's so into doing stuff because he feels like it mentality after all. If Cream were to hang around in some other group thing could be a bit different, but then again, what'd Vanilla think of it? I at least have no everloving idea about what kind of unholy promises were given the day they agreed on getting Cream onboard.

Really, this isn't even too new for Archie Sonic comics anyway. Or have people already forgotten about the stuff around Amy's age in the old continuity..?

[KoDaiko]

It reminds me of the confusing “she’s too young and isn’t properly trained to fight like Tails/Charmy/Marine” reason Ian brought up in the beginning.  I don't think there is no official statement if all the characters train to be physically strong. She is confirmed to be able to fight in game (with Cheese). Sure there are games where she helpless but heck, Tails switch between a fighter and weakling between games too. Then the “she is a pacifist” reason, still bad since pacifists can still fight when they need to. Then they say Vanilla and yada yada...

Okay, “comic is more realistic, different from the game”. So everyone needs to be of decent age and train to fight. Tails and Charmy are young but given professional training by their friends, sure. If she can’t really do combat, then she still can do the passive support role that the other fighters need. But Cream wants to do more, the leader tries to overprotect her, and Freedom Fighter has all the roles they need. Why did Sally allow Cream to come in if she thinks she isn’t strong enough? Why is she here? Why won’t Sally tell Cream she needs proper training is she wants to help? If that’s how the world works, did Vanilla know Cream was weak but agreed because everyone will protect her? Didn't she worry Cream will be a nuisance/baggage to the fight for evil? Maybe they were planning to develop it but...why, why?

I...Is it just me or the character who got hurt by the FF format and comic logic the most is Cream?

[Razule]

Wasn't there a mandate that Cream couldn't fight? If Ian wanted to make her a fighter he couldn't.

[RedFox99]

3 minutes ago, Razule said:

Wasn't there a mandate that Cream couldn't fight? If Ian wanted to make her a fighter he couldn't.

Yeah, you've got a good point but then why did he have her in the FFs if that was the case.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

Personally, I would've made Cream a search and rescue character. Cheese would fit into small spaces. 

[RedFox99]

2 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

Personally, I would've made Cream a search and rescue character. Cheese would fit into small spaces. 

That could work. Maybe also have Cream a sort peace keeping member of the FFs; for instance she can travel around places and try to resolve issues.

[KoDaiko]

54 minutes ago, Razule said:

Wasn't there a mandate that Cream couldn't fight? If Ian wanted to make her a fighter he couldn't.

If there was a mandate, there would be other ways to execute it. They could’ve made Cream be fully dedicated to being support and be happy with it. But they made Cream wanting to help the FF fight and Sally trying to prevent that. Maybe there was going to be an arc of Cream wanting to do more but later settling down with how she is. But she doesn’t have any role that is significant or important. She’s just there, unlike Tails or Rotor or Nicole who specializes in the gadgets and base and all that, or Sally who orders around,  or the rest whose main job is to fight. It brings the question of, “Why is she here? What is her job?”

The problem is there are too many in the group. It’s understandable that each character doesn’t have a strict and limited role, but that means Cream who can’t fight (the most basic and standard role everyone else has) lacks meaning in the team composition who can fill in most of the other non-combat roles.

 

She works better in a smaller group. I think Team Rose could’ve been a separate FF group or an independent team traveling and helping on their own, occasionally teaming up with the FF.

[RedFox99]

7 minutes ago, KoDaiko said:

If there was a mandate, there would be other ways to execute it. They could’ve made Cream be fully dedicated to being support and be happy with it. But they made Cream wanting to help the FF fight and Sally trying to prevent that. Maybe there was going to be an arc of Cream wanting to do more but later settling down with how she is. But she doesn’t have any role that is significant or important. She’s just there, unlike Tails or Rotor or Nicole who specializes in the gadgets and base and all that, or Sally who orders around,  or the rest whose main job is to fight. It brings the question of, “Why is she here? What is her job?”

The problem is there are too many in the group. It’s understandable that each character doesn’t have a strict and limited role, but that means Cream who can’t fight (the most basic and standard role everyone else has) lacks meaning in the team composition who can fill in most of the other non-combat roles.

 

She works better in a smaller group. I think Team Rose could’ve been a separate FF group or an independent team traveling and helping on their own, occasionally teaming up with the FF.

Or maybe she could've specialized in medicinal practices, but yeah it probably would've been better for Team Rose to be more like a major ally to the FFs rather than members of the group.

[Korke]

8 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

It reminds me of the confusing “she’s too young and isn’t properly trained to fight like Tails/Charmy/Marine”

Why did Sally allow Cream to come in if she thinks she isn’t strong enough? Why is she here? Why won’t Sally tell Cream she needs proper training is she wants to help? If that’s how the world works, did Vanilla know Cream was weak but agreed because everyone will protect her? Didn't she worry Cream will be a nuisance/baggage to the fight for evil? Maybe they were planning to develop it but...why, why?

I...Is it just me or the character who got hurt by the FF format and comic logic the most is Cream?

I just wanted to point out that Marine never fought in SRA nor in the comics.

The anwser for most of your question is: fan demand. Don't get me wrong, I dislike Flynn, but he's not at fault here. Fans did demand the character to appear and he found a way, trying to apply Sonic X method of supporting cast.

All characters were hurt with Flynn's format of "squad teams", but I would'nt say that Cream took the worst of it. She is supposed to work as the civillian figure and managed to fill that role just fine.

[PublicEnemy1]

Do you guys think this comic will be good, or at least succeed?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

We know basically nothing about it. We can only say it'll probably be okay since it's got some good people working on it.

[DabigRG]

Looking back using hindsight and my collection of comics, the Cream not being able to help issue is a combination of things:

• A simple case of Gameplay and Story Segregation except in the comics rather than in a cutscene, as Cream in both her debut series and certain spinoffs gained a reputation for being broken.
• While I don't think he mentioned it until after it was irrelevant, Mr. Flynn said he was partially limited by SEGA's Mandate due to their particular vision of Cream. Considering this vision is presumably the one as to why Cheese exists, this makes perfect sense.
• Cream was intentionally create as Amy's answer to Tails, which coincided with her filling both of their former roles as both the sweet girl and the tagalong kid. Having her also be the youngest meant she was deemed inexperienced among the Freedom Fighters compared to them.
• The overly large roster the Freedom Fighters had(seriously, you had Team Fighters, Team Freedom minus the Mechanix, The original SatAM group, Team Rose, and T-Pup & Omochao) meant that there was some overlap in abilities and temperaments that meant Cream was unlikely to be active in the high-stakes story arcs that the other characters would naturally get more mileage out of.
• And finally, there's the simple matter of how the stories with her in the focus were published:
  • Pirate Plunder Panic and the final part of Countdown to Chaos(256) has her cooperating with Amy, Marine, and Sally in their fights against Captain Metal and his crew, Captain Whisker and his crew, and Metal Sonic, albeit less directly then the others--mostly getting her effectiveness across by getting the others airborne and suggesting alternative approaches. (257) also has her assisting Sally and Nicole in monitoring  on the others' progress in saving the citizens of Station Square from the flooding, eventually having to keep tabs.on everything for a bit when Sally briefly loses her focus.
  • Ambushed (266-7) is where the concept first really came into play and it was actually a crucial plot point too: Sally, after putting whether they go after the next Chaos Emerald she suspects could be either a trap or sloppiness on Eggman's part to a vote, has Cream, Cheese, and Big stay on the Sky Patrol with Nicole for their safety while the rest of them go after it. The catch here is that Cream being told to stay behind is what ultimately saves the others, as she mobilizes Team Support when they are ambushed by Iota, Kappa, and Lamda and Nicole is unable to use the weapons system to reliably save them. So I think the fact that Sally more or less enabled this entire plot is what ultimately got the most focus in the critical reception of the story.
  • Also, A Ray of Hope(272) also had a moment where Cream openly questions when she'd get to go on missions. Rotor replies that she'd get to when they don't involve the Dark Gaia monsters, with Cream bringing up her incident with the Espresso Machine(?) as a possible extra reason she's being held back. 
  • Additionally, I think it's safe to say World's Unite (273-5) really did cause a number of unplanned issues with the storytelling and pacing and this is one of them. Over half a month after the events of Ambushed, Cream(as well as Roll and Nicole) is once again told to hang back during the fights against the invading Deadly Six, Mechaniloids(?), and later the magnetically controlled Light Robot Masters, Quake Woman, and the Maverick Hunters, which to some unintentionally gave off the impression that Sally didn't "learn her lesson."
  • After the second crossover, Wing's of Fire(281-2) finally has Cream participate in a mission, as she helps Sally and Antoine keep up with Sonic(and the snatched up Big) on Dragon Road, asks around Chun-Nan for information concerning with Cinder, and helps fight off Conquering Storm and the Egg Clan's ambush after the Werehog and Chip manages to deal with the Gaia Phoenix(which coincidentally took place at night).
  • Finally, The Mission and Panic in the Sky(283-7) were openly solicited as stories where she is the key to the Heroes' success, as she, Cheese, Big, return to Mobotropilis to store the Gaia Keys and the Chaos Emeralds in King Acorn's vault for safekeeping. She eventually ends up saving Gemerl from an UnBEARable situation, even personally taking on Bark herself. Unfortunately, she is unable to keep Metal Sonic from getting away with the goods and is forced to allow the Hooligans to escape as well due to Gemerl reminding her that they need to deal with remaining Badniks Nack sicced on the city.

[NikoS]

7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Cream bringing up her incident with the Espresso Machine(?)

Cream had a little problem with Rotor's espresso machine in the first part of the Spark of Life arc:

Spoiler

c'mom it's not that  complicated

 

[RedFox99]

So it's likely had the comics not been cancelled, Cream might have been on more missions. 

@NikoS Not gonna lie, I can't say I liked Sally's joke.

[Red Hot Jack]

I don't think Cream was underused in the comic, she had her arcs with Amy and the girls, (Treasure Team Tango, Pirate Plunder Panic), she simply had no place within the Freedom Fighters, who were already too many IMO.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, NikoS said:

Cream had a little problem with Rotor's espresso machine in the first part of the Spark of Life arc:

  Hide contents

c'mom it's not that  complicated

 

Ah, okay then.  I didn't get personally subscribe to Universe until Eggman's Dozen because c'mon. 

 

To be fair, that was definitely more on Rotor. Incidentally, Sally's terrible pun makes me realize that Cream should totally have her own rival be named Coffee. 

 

2 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

So it's likely had the comics not been cancelled, Cream might have been on more missions. 

@NikoS Not gonna lie, I can't say I liked Sally's joke.

Pretty much. They were intentionally dividing them up with the intention of giving each of the Freedom Fighters a personal mission/arc(particularly Antoine) and giving the game material more spotlight. I believe Cream was supposed to be involved in the story about restoring Nicole, but I didn't really pay attention to those pages yet for a reason or two.

2 hours ago, Jack the Rookie said:

I don't think Cream was underused in the comic, she had her arcs with Amy and the girls, (Treasure Team Tango, Pirate Plunder Panic), she simply had no place within the Freedom Fighters, who were already too many IMO.

The problem wasn't that she was underused, but rather underutilized throughout the Shattered World Crisis itself. Not for nothing, the progenitor of the problem was indeed the simple fact that the main cast was too big for it's own good, but some characters were noticeably used less often than others and Cream&Cheese unfortunately was probably the worst offender after T-Pup. The fact that she was generally just an Advertised Extra most of the time and was often told to sit it out whenever she was relevant is where issue came up.

 

I believe Waves of Change in particular would've been a great time to utilize her considering it's involves Chao.

[RedFox99]

@DabigRG Kind of sad that the comics ended before we saw some of the arcs. Hmm.... would Coffee also be a rabbit?

[DabigRG]

3 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

@DabigRG Kind of sad that the comics ended before we saw some of the arcs. Hmm.... would Coffee also be a rabbit?

Yeah. I was really looking forward to Antoine and Bunnie's issues in particular. Still curious about what Rotor's issue would've been.

 

Perhaps. Either that or a Squirrel/Jerboa for the sake of a mythology gag.

 

Speaking of which, I swear there was indeed an Dark Cream and Cheese in the background one issue.

[Red Hot Jack]

17 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

The problem wasn't that she was underused, but rather underutilized throughout the Shattered World Crisis itself. Not for nothing, the progenitor of the problem was indeed the simple fact that the main cast was too big for it's own good, but some characters were noticeably used less often than others and Cream&Cheese unfortunately was probably the worst offender after T-Pup. The fact that she was generally just an Advertised Extra most of the time and was often told to sit it out whenever she was relevant is where issue came up.

 

I believe Waves of Change in particular would've been a great time to utilize her considering it's involves Chao.

Indeed, the problem is that there were too many characters taking the spotlight, especially in the main book, which focused on Freddom Fighters. That's why game fans used to dislike the main comic and preferred Universe.

[DabigRG]

On 11/12/2017 at 10:41 PM, Korke said:

I just wanted to point out that Marine never fought in SRA nor in the comics.

.

Marine is another character I was kinda hoping would show up again in the games and be utilized more in the comics, particularly after the reboot(assuming it's after Rush Adventure and Captain Whisker was simply repaired). 

On 11/12/2017 at 10:41 PM, Korke said:

The anwser for most of your question is: fan demand. Don't get me wrong, I dislike Flynn, but he's not at fault here.

You do? Any issue in particular?

[RedFox99]

18 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Yeah. I was really looking forward to Antoine and Bunnie's issues in particular. Still curious about what Rotor's issue would've been.

 

Perhaps. Either that or a Squirrel/Jerboa for the sake of a mythology gag.

 

Speaking of which, I swear there was indeed an Dark Cream and Cheese in the background one issue.

Maybe Rotor would go against his father. A dark Cream and Cheese?

8 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Marine is another character I was kinda hoping would show up again in the games and be utilized more in the comics, particularly after the reboot(assuming it's after Rush Adventure and Captain Whisker was simply repaired). 

You do? Any issue in particular?

Well Ian did say he disliked Marine as a character.

One issue I hear people say when it comes to Ian's writing was his favoritism for Sally and I can where they get that when you see when Sonic meets Sally again in the reboot and seemingly ignites Amy or when Sally's restored memories were seen as more important than Amy's memories. There's people who felt he had a bias against Amy, as many feel she tends to the butt of a lot of jokes.

[DabigRG]

2 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Maybe Rotor would go against his father. 

Mm...yeah, that is the most likely thing, though I think I would've preferred if it were more an adventure focused on him and Tails. Particularly since another Tundra story would inherently do better as a two-parter/full issue.

3 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

 A dark Cream and Cheese?

 

Yeah, it was a snobbish looking Rabbit girl with a Dark Chao in her purse. I'm trying to look up posts/pages online since I'm not currently at home.