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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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I just think it's a poor mindset to have. See again: DC making Harley Quinn a mainstay.

It just feels like Sega of Japan is weirdly against any western contributions to the brand? And I get that Penders left a bad taste in people's mouths, but it just seems so stupid. Western Sonic, like it or not, is still part of Sonic's history.

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At this point in time, I can sort of understand why they wouldn't necessarily want to put them in so brazenly: while ultimately a case of franchise original sin and or grandfather clause, the freedom fighters were such a big part of all three continuities they were part of. This primarily center's around Sally though who even Mr flame himself made the case was the real protagonist of SatAm with Sonic and Robotnik as supporters to her story that were just more front and center. So legal and or creative difference issues aside there might be some hesitation towards the notion that including them could involve them taking over and or changing the vibe of the series as upheld by the games, which is more freeform in general.

This was explicitly Incorporated into most of the idwr exclusive characters when you get down to it: they either have their general feel/point about them that might be similar to other characters while still being something different(Starline, Whisper, Belle) or they might be fairly simple excuses to have a fun character(Tango, Rough, Tumble), but they also are pretty easy to have come and go as needed or wanted by the issue. The former might show up more often and determine the story and the ladder might just show up for funsies every once in awhile, but the real focus is generally on the game cast and the adventure. This is also why others like Jewel, Lanolin, and Scruffy have been nowhere near as prevalent: they are either supports for those exclusive guest stars or they're simply there to support whatever story is being told without really having much effect on it.

That said, it wouldn't be hard to take the basic spirit and key elements of those characters into account to add them to that list of recurring guest stars, with Post-Reboot already showing how that can be done and Forces already having established the Resistance/Restoration as meet up point for different heroes.

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1 hour ago, Mega said:

I just think it's a poor mindset to have. See again: DC making Harley Quinn a mainstay.

It just feels like Sega of Japan is weirdly against any western contributions to the brand? And I get that Penders left a bad taste in people's mouths, but it just seems so stupid. Western Sonic, like it or not, is still part of Sonic's history.

Well its kind of a different situation; Harley Quinn was designed as a henchman to Joker and that was it. The show was still about Batman.

SATAM was structured and centered around Sally and the Freedom Fighters more than it was about Sonic. That's not really compatible with the games.

 

In order to properly incorporate them, you would need to significantly alter them to fit into the mold of the games. And the fact is, the Freedom Fighters are kind of redundant because they were designed as a supporting cast to Sonic, but he has a pretty well defined supporting cast now.

So they would need entirely new purposes. They would more or less need to be re written from the ground up, and I think Sega sees no reason or merit to do that.

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2 hours ago, The KKM said:

Are you particularly clamoring for Metamorphia to be made part of the games?

I had to look this character up, but while I wouldn’t be clamoring for it, per se, I wouldn’t see a problem with an old character like that getting a new lease on life.

I’d say do that more than make a whole new character given how many we already had before hand.

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2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Well its kind of a different situation; Harley Quinn was designed as a henchman to Joker and that was it. The show was still about Batman.

SATAM was structured and centered around Sally and the Freedom Fighters more than it was about Sonic. That's not really compatible with the games.

 

In order to properly incorporate them, you would need to significantly alter them to fit into the mold of the games. And the fact is, the Freedom Fighters are kind of redundant because they were designed as a supporting cast to Sonic, but he has a pretty well defined supporting cast now.

So they would need entirely new purposes. They would more or less need to be re written from the ground up, and I think Sega sees no reason or merit to do that.

I think fans know that already and have understood that the FFs would have to be adapted to the main series. It's really, just as you say, about getting SEGA to find that merit. 

Only the most delusional think that the FF can go back to how they were.

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Despite him being a recurring threat, I don't like Eggman being such a huge threat that organizations need to exist to undermine his control over the world.

GUN should be it.

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4 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Despite him being a recurring threat, I don't like Eggman being such a huge threat that organizations need to exist to undermine his control over the world.

GUN should be it.

Well, thanks to the Sonic X Law, GUN is a human organization in the Human World that Team Dark is no longer associated with.

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2 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

Well, thanks to the Sonic X Law, GUN is a human organization in the Human World that Team Dark is no longer associated with.

I am aware and normally I would say "just use GUN and set your military stories in the human world" if SEGA didn't actively restrict the comics from it.

Unless GUN gets totally retconned I don't really want Freedom Fighters, Restoration, Resistance to be in the games. Eggman should be more major nuisance that is regularly stopped than someone who needs organizations to undo his victories.

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8 hours ago, Mega said:

I just think it's a poor mindset to have. See again: DC making Harley Quinn a mainstay.

It just feels like Sega of Japan is weirdly against any western contributions to the brand? And I get that Penders left a bad taste in people's mouths, but it just seems so stupid. Western Sonic, like it or not, is still part of Sonic's history.

To be fair, shows like SATAM and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog were around when Sonic the Hedgehog had just first started out and SEGA hadn't developed a broader backstory for Sonic and his friends until Sonic Adventure came out.  Since SEGA decided to give their own spin on Sonic's mythos at that point, I guess to them, bringing back the Freedom Fighters or anything related to SATAM wouldn't make any sense at this point since they had already developed a different backstory for Sonic.

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1 hour ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

To be fair, shows like SATAM and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog were around when Sonic the Hedgehog had just first started out and SEGA hadn't developed a broader backstory for Sonic and his friends until Sonic Adventure came out.  Since SEGA decided to give their own spin on Sonic's mythos at that point, I guess to them, bringing back the Freedom Fighters or anything related to SATAM wouldn't make any sense at this point since they had already developed a different backstory for Sonic.

They still haven’t thought up a mythos for the franchise as they keep on changing it.

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11 hours ago, Slashy said:

 I don't like Eggman being such a huge threat that organizations need to exist to undermine his control over the world.

That is good point, but easily fixed.

1) FF formed during Sonic Forces

2) Eggman conquers 1 single city/kingdom where Sally lived, so she formed FF just to safe her homeland.

3) FF are just a military sub-section to Restoration.

Either way, fighting Eggman isn't their sole reason of existence anymore. He just happens to make trouble most often.

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On 3/12/2021 at 1:47 AM, Silvereyes said:

Well, that's pretty cool. It does feel like in a way the 30th anniversary special will replace the annual for this year I guess. Hopefully it'll come out in June/July.

Looking forward to the panel.

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Can’t say I agree about not needing multiple organisations to fight him and just use gun, if your going to make Eggman/Robotnik a worldwide threat hen of course more groups would be resisting him, it makes the world so much smaller if you just say that just one or two groups are the only ones fighting him if he’s being portrayed as a worldwide threat

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17 hours ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

To be fair, shows like SATAM and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog were around when Sonic the Hedgehog had just first started out and SEGA hadn't developed a broader backstory for Sonic and his friends until Sonic Adventure came out.  Since SEGA decided to give their own spin on Sonic's mythos at that point, I guess to them, bringing back the Freedom Fighters or anything related to SATAM wouldn't make any sense at this point since they had already developed a different backstory for Sonic.

I guess it was initially "you do your thing, we do ours", and now it's "why do we have to use your old ideas when we could just make new stuff that fits our specific need?" seeing how IDW's new characters have specific purpose/role in the narrative. 

I don't think SoJ would want to change or adjust their ideas/lore for the Freedom Fighters to fit in (who weren't made with the game in mind). But if Sega decided to use the Freedom Fighters but in name only, it brings the question of why bother using them.

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They hardly have to change anything to fit the Freedom Fighters in, particularly if they use their Post Genesis Wave characterizations and backstories.

The most drastic change they could make is simply dropping the name Freedom Fighters and give them new roles, and I highly doubt any fans of them are that attached to the group name than they are the characters individually. Beyond that, aside from a visual redesign, they’d fit right in to the current setting, since before the Reboot, they were living in the exact same conditions as IDW started.

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16 minutes ago, Zulon Eredas said:

Cover B of Sonic 31 mentions the Knothole Village Police Precinct, so that enough for me to hold out hope that we may see the Freedom Fighters again one day.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that SEGA didn't like that Ian snuck that in.

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3 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

They hardly have to change anything to fit the Freedom Fighters in, particularly if they use their Post Genesis Wave characterizations and backstories.

Which they can't- it's been mentioned repeatedly no Archie, so any Freedom Fighters use will have to be based directly on SatAM. No Antoine x Bunnie, no "D'Coolette", no Nicole lynx, etc etc etc.

It's definitely doable, but again, I think a lot of the fans asking for this don't understand how much is going to have to change.

 

2 hours ago, Zulon Eredas said:

Cover B of Sonic 31 mentions the Knothole Village Police Precinct, so that enough for me to hold out hope that we may see the Freedom Fighters again one day.

Jon sneaked that in of his own volition, same with Ian sneaking in "The Hooligans" as a mention early on, or ABT drawing Sally and Bunnie in the Forces comics. On each instance they then got chided and it went nowhere. If the FF get brought back, it won't be through these- these are just references the staff is making of their own want, not something Sega's approving of.

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Spoiler

The diamond cutters connection to Metal Gear was just a fun reference that came about from Whisper and Mimic that was surprisingly approved
Whispers name may be a pun as well as the antithesis to other characters high energy
Mimic was a villain from Archie days that he never had the chance to use and they needed a villain

Non-echidna characters 
Enerjak as entirely separate entity 
Echidna hubris   Parallax would be interesting but doesn't want to dilute
Can't remember specific

Tried to beat Megaman lost 
Thanks to fandom chronicling series for research
Hiroshi Ariga read Archie and enjoyed it

Sonic Boom episode
Pitched other conceots game characters 
First two script that was finished by show staff
Another pass at House of Cards

Mr X plans
Thrown into portal
After Megaman 4 question of Wily resources
Xander would be ousted 
Fate wasn't fully decided but that would have been it since he was tired of him

Come up with dialogue cadence delivery
Not sound like same person talking to themselves
Tricky and time consuming

Plans for Locke
Sega did not order him dead
He was becoming a monster
Against even Brotherhood
Good intentioned, but all wrong ways and completely unapologetic
Moments of doubt but too much of traditionalist
Grew up in insular society 
Doubled down after losing a lot
Only when I'm a corner to see what he had become
Break free from shackles in last moments
Ultimate villain arc
Started in early 100s
Complete arc

Megaman nearly killing Wily
Middle ground between english and japanese
Shut down between Rules of Robotics
English dialogue as sign of malfunction

Tangle and Marine 
Who would tire who out?
Might energize each other when one starts to calm down
Best case scenario Tangle would try to be adult for long enough to get them to safety
Perpetual motion machine


The creative process of IDW during covid
Had wrapped up his work right as covid took affect and Bad Guys likely would have written even was already implementing her plans

Chaos emeralds sentient like sol
Idk because will is so vague that doesn't seem worth going into beyond the one game it did

Issue 12  battle of angel conclusion end of whole first year or finale
It's just angel island battle
Personally call revenge of neo metal

Iron dominion iron king old Mobotropolis reference from asterisk 
No because wasn't familiar
Has Euro comics 
Behind on lot of media beyond blutzod kanolus and guanido.  Did back cover for vincent. Got free look 
Kyle knows of tintin and valaroan


Babylon Rogues flames on arms. Would work in racing title
Flames are seemingly markings like Knuckles don't know much about their concept
Feel been shortchanged think Variety in extreme gear rides means they shouldn't be limited
They may just be exclusive but lack pushback inclusion makes it unclear


Cacophonic conch record its sound too get around air capacity limitation?
Difficult to accurately reproduce sound 
As example Youtube series notes how hard to replicate certain effects


Instant gratification culture has had effect on comics
It is factor but larger issue is ability to readily express opinions
Had to wait or talk in closed areas before but now can publish immediate reactions
For example Remember AntiVenom returning got bad reaction initially and then the story was interesting but reaction got him written out
Also trend of burnout from netflix and graphic novels


Will Classic Amy be in classic series comic and will be explain where was during forces and mania?
Can't say


Why Knuckles can't leave Floating Island?
He can but have to find reason to leave
Knuckles was meant to team up with Espio against Zazz, but was told he wouldn't leave with Eggman there. They argued over technicalities until he relented


Is Shadow not allowed to have emotional friendship and attachment?
Don't know, never will has those
 he doesnt emote outwardly
Why he isn't used much outside of action and conflict


Nocturnus is different from dark legion
They are and aren't similAr concept and traits
Nocturnus get things done  was seemingly single generation As far as remember
Gizoids
Dark legion didn't have robots beyond androids that were quickly forget


Nintendo today would approve of Mario metroid comic ideas?
ARMS comic is proof that they are willing to license out
Depends on what they want


What animal was Cortez from Sonix Universe?
Either Ferret or Badger, as he was developed before they knew about Sticks
Aleah thinks it was latter


Would Amy tie her hair in scene to indicate she's serious?
Borderline fan idea
Not sure but probably not in character


Font idre dismogue(I'd have to go back to confirm what this wqs)
Depends on who is doing might makes pro is most common


Could Mephiles come back?
Would be through Timeywhimey loopholes
But he's dead and he can't touch
Note how it was unstable time loop that eliminated him


Has written 280 issues of Sonic in career may be nearing personal milestone?
Don't count things like annual personally
Will have spent half life with Sonic in  2028
Iuzuka has been involved for nearly 30


Zeti prereboot would have eventually but arguably wasn't
Swatbots and robotization is not in idw and is locked with SatAm
Egg pawns and metal virus


Bad Guys takes place between 32 33
Prologue to season three


New encyclopedia involvement for games
He's been doing Sonic for long time and got noticed
Had been humbling experience since there are a lot of things her forgotten or become fuzzy on
Lot of nuance and unanswered questions that had fallen cracks
Do it was refresher
Timeline doesn't exist beyond how robust it can be at any given time
There are things he'd like to include but has to deal with sega approval


Does writer have input on art like colors and lineart?
Very little is credible for writer
Suggested riders tie in. Emulate 2d trailer
Occasionly very specific with direction 
Based on artist ability deadline Sega would allow
Drogun hadn't designed vomtee enchanti back and forth adam had final sayEcho shonen jump comyaeer back and forth on how to design
Inquisitors much more pedestrian that adam took in spooky direction


Cosmo and Meterax plans island like in bad guys. Beard in comic con  video
Reference to prison island Sonic x was easter egg
X material is generally something he's not fan of but there were elements he enjoyed along with fans and wants to include
Same heroes played major role in his comic work
Even boom would like to incorporate inn modern 


Zeti had place in Sonic world Zavok bad guys first issue also have tried puteen
Like in canada so if couts
Not found of cheese curds 
Like meat and gravy on french fries
Dubious of not side


Chaos age mentally
No notes and figured he doesn't have age as an element
Doesn't pissed so much as is emotion of protecting nurturing chao
Doesnt see as being with well defined thoughts


Appreciating use of Deadly Six in idw especially Zavok, who has potential better villain, what is right approach to win people over?
Didn't find them as offensive but there wasn't meat
Runners event Zeti event gave a lot of characterization notbalotbto zomom infktmedvba lot
Sega had a lot of notes especially on Zeena.
Zavok is one of favorites villain tropes bestial primal  intelligent
Calculated eloquent in presence makes malice much more palletable  knows how to make painful since
Example Shadow broker
Cheap bowser clone has a lot of similAr elements around him though not in character
Bowser has better design in part thanks to time to refine


Like all might as best written superman in all time
So powerful yet vulnerable and camp
He is quintessential remix of clark and superman
Love voice and catchphrase
Pacing of appearances 


Do the mandates from Archie about Nega wardrobe and relationships still apply?
Doesn't know about Dr. Nega since haven't tried
Knows that there are rules around significant wardrobe changes that Evan got around by using official alternate outfits


What determines characters like Tangle and Whisper's creation?
He initiates
Varies based on 
Use rabbit prototype for Tangle Sega said not a rabbit so they went through other ideas settled on lemur
Whisper general idea composed muted sniper wolf Evan and Sega went back and forth she did mask that informed her character 
Rough and Tumble were at their core just brothers with bond two mooks who get nest up species up to tyson even if it is different
Starline based on something in particular secret 
Original trio themed in origins
Whittled down from that idea because it would have been too much 
Evan and Sega even hashed out read colors mannerisms


Genesis facilitated reboot and anniversary
Reboot for sake of story that had rough plans to spinoff into own thing but never went anywhere


Joke comic amy had enough bracelets like inhibitor rings what poersd could she have
Skates line of fan idea
Raise question of numerous fully realized ideas that never go anywhere.  Implications of esp. hinted at cut content wish they would do more with potential
She's not stalker so Sonic would be fine and in great hands


 .

I kept forgetting to post three episodes worth of Bumblekast Ive been cathing up on. Once again, I'd like to apologize for any confusion or lack of clarity that might come from how minimally I edited this together.

 

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1 hour ago, The KKM said:

Which they can't- it's been mentioned repeatedly no Archie, so any Freedom Fighters use will have to be based directly on SatAM. No Antoine x Bunnie, no "D'Coolette", no Nicole lynx, etc etc etc.

It's definitely doable, but again, I think a lot of the fans asking for this don't understand how much is going to have to change.

I don't think it's been explicitly clear that they would have to be different from what Archie did should they be told they can use the Freedom Fighters at some point, just that is real possibility those could be the restrictions they have to work under. Ian specifically mentioned the IDW team did a hypothetical discussion for fun where they talked about all the different ways they might handle things depending on what rules they were given and what they'd actually want to do to make them fit. There are no hard rules with the Freedom Fighters right now outside of that Sega isn't letting them use them right now.

I can only speak for myself, but I'd be fine with a SatAM/Sega version of the characters. I don't think Antoine and Bunnie being married really makes sense for Sega versions of those characters, Antoine's name being Depardieu is whatever (I'd just have him be Antoine the Coyote myself), and having Nicole be in the handheld again as an accessory character to Sally would also be fine. I'll go even further - forget about Bunnie's parts being roboticized, just have them be prosthetic or some sort of tech armor. Ditch the Sally as princess concept and just have her be an activist. Get rid of the Freedom Fighters team setup entirely and have them be stand alone characters that have a team dynamic when they work together like Team Sonic does. I think most people asking for those characters at this point aren't asking for the IDW book or games to contort themselves to fit the premise of post-reboot or pre-reboot Archie, or even SatAM. They just want versions of those characters as part of the tertiary cast.

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He absolutely would need to, in this instance, since he was never D'Coolette in SatAM. Mind, this is assuming he gets to exist at all- I could more easily see Sega let them use only whatever appeared in Spinball, meaning no Antoine.

 

Amy Rose and Charmy Bee are not comparable examples to this scenario. Sonic Team were involved there from the very start, created their designs, it's a product made in the same culture, language, and country as the game developers, etc. When I asked if people were ok with Metamorphia coming in, my point was that most people will react "who?" to that- that's sorta how Sega sees SatAM characters. They're certainly aware these characters exist, there's old footage of Sonic Team having faxed copies of very early Archie Sonic in their offices, but mostly it's just "that thing from halfway across the world 30 years ago that we have no connection to".

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1 hour ago, The KKM said:

same with Ian sneaking in "The Hooligans" as a mention early on

This one's actually slightly different IIRC. Ian dropped the name in because he was intending on using them, but it was written before Mania Plus was revealed, which cemented the classic-locked cast as being classic-locked. It got through because it was too late to change it, the issue coming out less than a month after the DLC's reveal.

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26 minutes ago, The KKM said:

He absolutely would need to, in this instance, since he was never D'Coolette in SatAM. Mind, this is assuming he gets to exist at all- I could more easily see Sega let them use only whatever appeared in Spinball, meaning no Antoine.

I didn't know that, but okay.

While media original characters don't really need to follow the SEGA naming scheme, the characters don't just have "real name" the animal...it'd be totally fine if they kept that or gave him a different one.

 

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