Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Mauro Fonseca]

1 hour ago, Your Vest Friend said:

This one's actually slightly different IIRC. Ian dropped the name in because he was intending on using them, but it was written before Mania Plus was revealed, which cemented the classic-locked cast as being classic-locked. It got through because it was too late to change it, the issue coming out less than a month after the DLC's reveal.

The classic cast being just classic was already a thing before- it's more that Ian sneaked the name in, because he was hoping that, in the case of being told he couldn't use the characters because they're classic-branch, he'd be able to "well we already named them, so...". Which later on he proceeded to do, but it only resulted in Sega pretty much just going "yeah, we know, but you still can't use it, also please don't do that again".

[Soniman]

I didnt know the Archie concepts were owned by Archie thats just so idiotic to me and like no disrespect to Satam, but Im pretty sure the things like Antoine/Bunnie being married, Lynx Nicole etc are things people really treasure about those characters so its a shame esp since Archie cant DO anything with them anyway since they lost the liscence, what a headache

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, The KKM said:

He absolutely would need to, in this instance, since he was never D'Coolette in SatAM. Mind, this is assuming he gets to exist at all- I could more easily see Sega let them use only whatever appeared in Spinball, meaning no Antoine.

 

Amy Rose and Charmy Bee are not comparable examples to this scenario. Sonic Team were involved there from the very start, created their designs, it's a product made in the same culture, language, and country as the game developers, etc. When I asked if people were ok with Metamorphia coming in, my point was that most people will react "who?" to that- that's sorta how Sega sees SatAM characters. They're certainly aware these characters exist, there's old footage of Sonic Team having faxed copies of very early Archie Sonic in their offices, but mostly it's just "that thing from halfway across the world 30 years ago that we have no connection to".

It comes from the series bible, just like Ixis, Boomer, and apparently Max.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why exactly are these small details such a huge legal issue? I could understand the designs (except for not being able to use Lynx Nicole, that’s just seems stupid to me), but the last name and Bunnie X Antoine?

These looks more like grudge holding between the two parties, especially when Sega has ownership of them.

[KoDaiko]

2 hours ago, The KKM said:

The classic cast being just classic was already a thing before- it's more that Ian sneaked the name in, because he was hoping that, in the case of being told he couldn't use the characters because they're classic-branch, he'd be able to "well we already named them, so...". Which later on he proceeded to do, but it only resulted in Sega pretty much just going "yeah, we know, but you still can't use it, also please don't do that again".

  While I agree Sega can be incompetent, I am glad they put their foot down when they need to. While I understand Ian really wanted them in, sounds like a shitty move for him to do.

8 hours ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

They hardly have to change anything to fit the Freedom Fighters in, particularly if they use their Post Genesis Wave characterizations and backstories.

The most drastic change they could make is simply dropping the name Freedom Fighters and give them new roles, and I highly doubt any fans of them are that attached to the group name than they are the characters individually. Beyond that, aside from a visual redesign, they’d fit right in to the current setting, since before the Reboot, they were living in the exact same conditions as IDW started.

Well, we don't really know that. I personally think Post-Archie is different from IDW or the games, for example, and we definitely dunno how SoJ sees it.  

[Leebo4]

9 hours ago, The KKM said:

Which they can't- it's been mentioned repeatedly no Archie, so any Freedom Fighters use will have to be based directly on SatAM. No Antoine x Bunnie, no "D'Coolette", no Nicole lynx, etc etc etc.

It's definitely doable, but again, I think a lot of the fans asking for this don't understand how much is going to have to change.

 

Jon sneaked that in of his own volition, same with Ian sneaking in "The Hooligans" as a mention early on, or ABT drawing Sally and Bunnie in the Forces comics. On each instance they then got chided and it went nowhere. If the FF get brought back, it won't be through these- these are just references the staff is making of their own want, not something Sega's approving of.

Pretty sure that they won’t have to exclude any potential romances that happened in the comics considering they sneaked in a cameo from Antoine and bunnie as a couple

[Mega]

Personally, as someone who grew up with SatAM before the games... I think even using SatAM as a baseline is fine? I know a lot of elements from Archie are long standing and beloved, but even taking the cast as they were in the show, I think they could be developed and refined to fit into the world of IDW.

Though it'd be weird for Archie to own the rights to... a ship. I get Lynx Nicole, but wat?

[Mauro Fonseca]

6 hours ago, Leebo4 said:

Pretty sure that they won’t have to exclude any potential romances that happened in the comics considering they sneaked in a cameo from Antoine and bunnie as a couple

Yes, sneaked. As in, not approved by Sega. If you'd be happy with the Freedom Fighters only existing as miscoloured cameos facing away from the camera in the back of panels without official approval from now on, great. If you want the actual characters, they'll have to be approved by Sega, and then Archie-specific elements get removed because it's a legal quagmire. Lynx Nicole was invented by Tania Del Rio, an Archie artist, for Archie- not part of SatAM- gone. Bunnie and Antoine coming together was invented by Archie, not part of SatAM explicitly even if maybe part of the plans- gone. Etc, etc etc.

 

Please understand that what artists sneak in is not the same as what's legally allowed and accepted for use in the comic. Jon Gray sneaked a Marsupilami in, doesn't mean the marsupilami is now canon to IDW Sonic. Cameos are an old tradition in comics, and always just mean the artist or writer having fun. There's a reason, again, why they had to sneak in a cameo of Antoine and Bunnie. Which they did twice by the way, with different designs each time, exactly because it's not meant to be the literal canon Antoine and Bunnie, it was just Evan in one instance and Tracy in another having fun.

 

And this doesn't mean facsimiles of these concepts couldn't be extrapolated and arrived at eventually, in the same way how the reboot of Archie had to remove King Max but just added King Nigel. Nicole could be given a body again, especially since that was already part of the plans in the show, for instance. But it absolutely would not be the lynx Nicole design from Archie, probably an entirely different thing. (and also inherently would mean repeatedly bringing them back to the spotlight so as to have time to develop things towards those facsimiles, which would just be back to postboot and placing them above game characters; not feasible, if they're brought back they gotta be placed at like, Chaotix-level at most of "can reappear every so often but not be the focus of everything")

 

EDIT: Look, all I'm saying is

1. No need to repeatedly ask for the Freedom Fighters- be assured, Ian etc aren't sleeping on it, they're doing all they can, as soon as an opportunity actually exists they'll pounce on it

but also

2. For multiple reasons, from the legal to the simple marketing, whatever shape or form the FF return in will be from mildly to drastically different, so temper your expectations

[Pengi]

15 hours ago, DabigRG said:

It comes from the series bible, just like Ixis, Boomer, and apparently Max.

D'Coolette and Boomer are used in the series bible. Ixis was Naugus' name in Ben Hurst's outline for the episode "The Void" (he wasn't in the bible, because he's a season 2 character).

Where did you hear about "Max"? They purposely avoided using that in the Archie reboot, so I don't think that originates from the TV series.

[DabigRG]

8 minutes ago, Pengi said:

D'Coolette and Boomer are used in the series bible. Ixis was Naugus' name in Ben Hurst's outline for the episode "The Void" (he wasn't in the bible, because he's a season 2 character).

Where did you hear about "Max"? They purposely avoided using that in the Archie reboot, so I don't think that originates from the TV series.

That's right, same website collection.

I thought I heard it was in the series notes as well, but I didn't see it either.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Make Nicole a Bobcat instead. They’re basically similar to the point of being the same.

There, problem solved.

[Your Vest Friend]

No, make Nicole a jaguar.

On a serious note, wow, didn't realise the skulduggery going on with the Hooligans. I thought it was just a continuation of the grandfather clause of Archie, I guess not.

Also if we went by SatAM's groundwork we'd have to get Boomer X Bunnie lol

[Slashy]

On 3/14/2021 at 6:53 PM, The KKM said:

The classic cast being just classic was already a thing before- it's more that Ian sneaked the name in, because he was hoping that, in the case of being told he couldn't use the characters because they're classic-branch, he'd be able to "well we already named them, so...". Which later on he proceeded to do, but it only resulted in Sega pretty much just going "yeah, we know, but you still can't use it, also please don't do that again".

That sounds passive aggressive, I am not surprised if SEGA doesn't trust him to write for the games with behavior like that.

[Mauro Fonseca]

11 minutes ago, Slashy said:

That sounds passive aggressive, I am not surprised if SEGA doesn't trust him to write for the games with behavior like that.

Take into account you're reading my paraphrasing of his paraphrasing of what went on. I imagine reading the actual e-mails it was a lot more polite and low-key than that. He simply tried to push for something he wanted a bit, and sometimes that works, this time it didn't. He's made it clear plenty of times that the relationship with Sega is different now on IDW, back then he was still fresh from Archie where "sneaking things past Sega" was the standard of the comic- he was probably still feeling and learning how this new licensing relationship goes.

[SBR2]

7 hours ago, Slashy said:

That sounds passive aggressive, I am not surprised if SEGA doesn't trust him to write for the games with behavior like that.

That's an...interesting take. I don't know how you jumped from trying to sneak something in to "this is why they won't let him write the gsmes".

[Natie]

I'm not sure I get all this clamor to make IDW into "Archie 2" that's been going on since the thing first came out. Is it wrong for a separate comic to be... separate? It's shitty how Archie got cut off without any sort of ending but after like 25 years worth of comics I personally felt pretty satisfied and ready to move on.

[Slashy]

11 minutes ago, Natie said:

I'm not sure I get all this clamor to make IDW into "Archie 2" that's been going on since the thing first came out. Is it wrong for a separate comic to be... separate? It's shitty how Archie got cut off without any sort of ending but after like 25 years worth of comics I personally felt pretty satisfied and ready to move on.

I would rather IDW have a clear identity that isn't thematically or stylistically like Archie/SATAM. It is why the Resistance and heavy use of a Forces-esque setting annoy me.

[Natie]

1 minute ago, Slashy said:

I would rather IDW have a clear identity that isn't thematically or stylistically like Archie/SATAM. It is why the Resistance and heavy reliance Forces-esque setting annoy me.

You have a fair point, I was a little miffed that IDW Eggman is still just Ian writing his angry SatAM Robotnik instead of going for the gleefully egocentric Eggman from the games, considering that's what the comic was trying to go for with its world. But I guess he's a grouchy fist waggling despot in the recent games now, too, so eh.

[DabigRG]

7 minutes ago, Natie said:

You have a fair point, I was a little miffed that IDW Eggman is still just Ian writing his angry SatAM Robotnik instead of going for the gleefully egocentric Eggman from the games, considering that's what the comic was trying to go for with its world. But I guess he's a grouchy fist waggling despot in the recent games now, too, so eh.

Is he?

He seems more like a gleeful scientist who's now in the middle of damage control as he gets resituated 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

On 3/15/2021 at 1:57 AM, Soniman said:

I didnt know the Archie concepts were owned by Archie thats just so idiotic to me and like no disrespect to Satam, but Im pretty sure the things like Antoine/Bunnie being married, Lynx Nicole etc are things people really treasure about those characters so its a shame esp since Archie cant DO anything with them anyway since they lost the liscence, what a headache

I feel like it needs to be pointed out that we actually don't know if Archie has the rights to the post-reboot FF. The original email that was being circulated around to claim that was the case was later confirmed to be a total hoax by someone in the Rally 4 Sally campaign:

While SEGA's rep didn't specify which aspects were false, there's a good chance, especially given Archie's previous incompetence with copyrights that their ownership of the post-reboot FF concepts might just be apart of the lie too, so it's really up in the air if that's true or not.

I do have to admit it'd be very strange if SEGA didn't immediately clamp down on Archie following the Penders' lawsuits, and ensured everything created for the comic from then on automatically defaulted back to SEGA's ownership.

[Slashy]

33 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Is he?

He seems more like a gleeful scientist who's now in the middle of damage control as he gets resituated 

I can't see games/X Eggman wanting the whole world to be mindless zombies. He would probably use the virus as a threat and at the very least be concerned when the zombots stopped responding to commands.

[Rabbitearsblog]

1 hour ago, Natie said:

I'm not sure I get all this clamor to make IDW into "Archie 2" that's been going on since the thing first came out. Is it wrong for a separate comic to be... separate? It's shitty how Archie got cut off without any sort of ending but after like 25 years worth of comics I personally felt pretty satisfied and ready to move on.

I agree with this.  I like the fact that the IDW comics are their own separate thing from the Archie Comics.  Now, if they somehow managed to get in some characters from the Archie Comics, like get the Freedom Fighters back, I wouldn't mind seeing that since I loved the Freedom Fighters.

[SBR2]

2 hours ago, Natie said:

I'm not sure I get all this clamor to make IDW into "Archie 2" that's been going on since the thing first came out. Is it wrong for a separate comic to be... separate? It's shitty how Archie got cut off without any sort of ending but after like 25 years worth of comics I personally felt pretty satisfied and ready to move on.

Agreed. I also just generally don't want the Freedom Fighters in the book. Literally the only way I want them to show up is a revival of the Archie continuity.

[Cuz]

While I'm not calling for IDW to become Archie 2.0, I definitely feel the characters can comfortably migrate over without derailing it. 

[Silvereyes]

Preview pages for #38: