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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread


Dejimon11

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TBH, I believe that there isn't really room for both Sonic's game posse and the Freedom Fighters with extended cast. They overlap too much.

The Freedom Fighters were dandy back in the SatAM to early comic days when Sonic's cast was far smaller. Nowadays there really isn't a need for Sally when Sonic's not going to be dating anybody and we have Blaze, Tails is all the tech wizard Sonic needs more often than not, Orbot and Cubot are Eggman's sidekicks now so there's not a place for Snively (even if Ian Flynn tried to make Snively just some admirer of Eggman instead of his nephew), it goes both ways too (Eggman's more brutal so there isn't a need for Eggman Nega).

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2 minutes ago, Almar said:

TBH, I believe that there isn't really room for both Sonic's game posse and the Freedom Fighters with extended cast. They overlap too much.

The Freedom Fighters were dandy back in the SatAM to early comic days when Sonic's cast was far smaller. Nowadays there really isn't a need for Sally when Sonic's not going to be dating anybody and we have Blaze, Tails is all the tech wizard Sonic needs more often than not, Orbot and Cubot are Eggman's sidekicks now so there's not a place for Snively (even if Ian Flynn tried to make Snively just some admirer of Eggman instead of his nephew), it goes both ways too (Eggman's more brutal so there isn't a need fo Eggman Nega).

Honestly, I think the SatAM/Archie characters could work in a spin-off series.

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19 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

One issue I hear people say when it comes to Ian's writing was his favoritism for Sally and I can where they get that when you see when Sonic meets Sally again in the reboot and seemingly ignites Amy or when Sally's restored memories were seen as more important than Amy's memories. There's people who felt he had a bias against Amy, as many feel she tends to the butt of a lot of jokes.

And I recall people who claimed the exact opposite. It was nuts.

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46 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Ah, okay then.  I didn't get personally subscribe to Universe until Eggman's Dozen because c'mon. 

C'mon what? 2 Books was too much?

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Just now, DaddlerTheDalek said:

And I recall people who claimed the exact opposite. It was nuts.

Really? What do you think made them think that?

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1 minute ago, RedFox99 said:

Really? What do you think made them think that?

That he was using  Ben Hurst' legacy for his own agenda and wanted to transform the comic book into other-m. That he was destroying the old SatAM cast. That he supposedly hated Sally  and likes Amy more and the conspiracy theory that he wanted to replace Sonally with Sonamy. It was crazy especially during the Mecha Sally arc.

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Just now, DaddlerTheDalek said:

That he was using  Ben Hurst' legacy for his own agenda and wanted to transform the comic book into other-m. That he was destroying the old SatAM cast. That he supposedly hated Sally  and likes Amy more and the conspiracy theory that he wanted to replace Sonally with Sonamy. It was crazy especially during the Mecha Sally arc.

Well, someone told me he liked Sonamy more than Sonally as he found the latter cliched. 

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25 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

 

Well Ian did say he disliked Marine as a character.

 

True, but Pirate Plunder Panic was written by Tracy Yardley!. And given the amount of research and detail he originally did for that arc, I'm almost surprised he didn't use/reference Marine's power.

27 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

One issue I hear people say when it comes to Ian's writing was his favoritism for Sally and I can where they get that when you see when Sonic meets Sally again in the reboot and seemingly ignites Amy or when Sally's restored memories were seen as more important than Amy's memories. There's people who felt he had a bias against Amy, as many feel she tends to the butt of a lot of jokes.

To be fair, Sonic remembered Sally being roboticized and heard that Metal Sonic was after her, does indeed acknowledge Amy shortly afterwards, supports Amy when she gets her memories, and Amy's history pre-boot was relatively miniscule in differences from the games aside for the unusable Rob O' the Hedge.

And last I heard, many people apparently loved how he wrote and utilized Amy compared to Sonic X and the games, so I honestly was unaware of any issue there.

Again(referencing the Boom thread here), what's up with the super protectiveness concerning Amy recently? I'm not saying there's a problem with that, but it's really odd to see that so frequently considering she's been better portrayed in recent outings. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

C'mon what? 2 Books was too much?

More like it's an Eggman Arc featuring all of the Egg Bosses(particularly Axel and Thunderbolt), Naugus, and the integregation of the villains of Tails Skypatrol. Of course I was gonna buy that!

 

I considered getting Great Chaos Caper as well, but ultimately didn't.

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4 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

Well, someone told me he liked Sonamy more than Sonally as he found the latter cliched. 

I don't know if it's true. It's just hilarious that SatAM Hardliner had the exact opposite problems with Ian Flynn compared to Game Purists.

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20 minutes ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

I don't know if it's true. It's just hilarious that SatAM Hardliner had the exact opposite problems with Ian Flynn compared to Game Purists.

I asked  the person who told me it and this what they told me.

Here- https://imgur.com/a/I5OLi

In the section with Sally, he notes that what doesn't make Sonally work is how the dynamic is not only cliche but Sally slows Sonic down and complicates him, whereas in Amy's section, he states the only reason SonAmy doesn't work is because SEGA won't allow the two to hook up

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47 minutes ago, Almar said:

TBH, I believe that there isn't really room for both Sonic's game posse and the Freedom Fighters with extended cast. They overlap too much.

The Freedom Fighters were dandy back in the SatAM to early comic days when Sonic's cast was far smaller. Nowadays there really isn't a need for Sally when Sonic's not going to be dating anybody and we have Blaze, Tails is all the tech wizard Sonic needs more often than not, Orbot and Cubot are Eggman's sidekicks now so there's not a place for Snively (even if Ian Flynn tried to make Snively just some admirer of Eggman instead of his nephew), it goes both ways too (Eggman's more brutal so there isn't a need for Eggman Nega).

The thing is there are indeed other uses for the characters, some of which were established in the reboot:

  • Tails and Rotor is definitely the closest comparison, as both fill the mechanic role, but the reboot in particular provided avenues to distinguish them. Tails is Sonic's kid Sidekick and a more reserved prodigy, while Rotor was meant to be the Freedom Fighter's personal mechanic. His larger build and more action based demeanor also means he is more hard hitting and offensively oriented than Tails. He also has family drama with Tundra back in Artika that Tails simply can't have due to being both a game character and an orphan.
  • Sally and Blaze is one that does admittedly seem redundant on the surface, but Blaze at least is super-powered(in more ways than one), primarily deals with conflicts herself, and exists in another dimension with a non-specific kingdom/heritage while Sally is more or less an average jill with technology based weapons, is the leader of the Freedom Fighters, and has Mobotropolis and the Acorn Lineage as her background.
  • Snively eventually provided a Starscream dynamic with Eggman that the Shapebots simply do not. Post reboot went even further by establishing him as a former ally of Eggman that primarily creates conflict with GUN and occasionally Knuckles.
  • While Eggman Nega can indeed still be treated as being more dangerous than Eggman, he primarily existed as a personal enemy for Blaze and Silver, making him a time and space themed villain. 

Ultimately, the Freedom Fighters do function better as an special team that Sonic, Tails, and Team Rose volunteers for and assists on occasion. Unfortunately, the comic seldom got to do stories where they weren't necessary.

 

34 minutes ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

 That he supposedly hated Sally  and likes Amy more and the conspiracy theory that he wanted to replace Sonally with Sonamy. It was crazy especially during the Mecha Sally arc.

 

25 minutes ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

I don't know if it's true. It's just hilarious that SatAM Hardliner had the exact opposite problems with Ian Flynn compared to Game Purists.

 

25 minutes ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

I don't know if it's true. It's just hilarious that SatAM Hardliner had the exact opposite problems with Ian Flynn compared to Game Purists.

 

8 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

I asked  the person who told me it and this what they told me.

Here- https://imgur.com/a/I5OLi

In the section with Sally, he notes that what doesn't make Sonally work is how the dynamic is not only cliche but Sally slows Sonic down and complicates him, whereas in Amy's section, he states the only reason SonAmy doesn't work is because SEGA won't allow the two to hook up

Meh, just shipping nonsense sounds like.

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29 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Ultimately, the Freedom Fighters do function better as an special team that Sonic, Tails, and Team Rose volunteers for and assists on occasion. Unfortunately, the comic seldom got to do stories where they weren't necessary.

To be honest, I agree. 

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I think they worked well as a large unit for the scope of the crisis they were facing, particularly towards the end. I just wish we'd gotten to see if they'd have returned to their separate ways they had embarked upon at the start of the reboot and stayed that way, sort of being called upon when needed.

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12 hours ago, DabigRG said:

You do? Any issue in particular?

If I were to tell you, my post would become a University research sized essay.

Trying to sum it up, I got sick of his recent writing, mostly because of the (lack of) character interactions. Most characters were treated like mere (un)living tools, and became (even more) bland and uninteresting.

 

To complement the FF talk, I believe that the FF shouldn't exist anymore. But the characters should live on separately, getting some guest appearances from time to time. That would be beneficial to every single FF character because all of them gets dragged down by Sally's presence. Not to mention that, without such big roster, Flynn won't be able to apply his maleficent "team logic". Sonic, Tails, Amy and the selected guest would have a lot of frames to interact and bring a good read.

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Yeah. Storytelling, especially in a medium as dependant on it such as comics (in comparison to video games) are more open to providing new positions and work-arounds for characters than one might initially believe. If a character ever feels redundant, I usually tend to put that on the writer's inability to do something interesting with them rather than it just being something that can't work given the character they are. You can do something interesting with Eggman Nega. Overhaul concepts and positions within the story based on what we know of his foundation and it'd be exceedingly simple to do.

My position remains that I still would rather not see the Freedom Fighters return however. That really kind of goes for all the stuff in the other cartoons as well. Even the ones I liked. It's definitely not for reasons I feel should be put forth as stimulated by factual contention. It's just a personal preference thing. Sticking characters from the cartoons was something I did when I was writing awful fanfiction as a kid and now that I'm older, it's hard not to look back on it as something that'll just feel off to me regardless of how well it's worked into the story. That's not to say I couldn't get over it. Animosity towards the SatAM cast in the other book existed primarily because of the position they held in actuality. They definitely felt like the main stars of the book, which, I could see myself not having an issue with had I grown up watching SatAM or in a time where Adventure 2, Heroes, and Sonic X didn't instill into me my own personal view of what the Sonic cast was supposed to be and who the focus should be on. However, that obviously didn't happen that way.

Still, I bought the book. I've got literally all the issues that came out after Issue 160 (aside from a few that released on Free Comic Book Day) and even a few before it that were written by Penderp. It was hard trying to force myself to not have an problem with the book's status quo... but that ultimately was something I realized I couldn't do. So instead I just made mention of my issues in a way that made it clear that they were just personal preference problems and not necessarily something I thought diminished the overall quality in an objective sense. Or at least what I considered to be "objective". 

When this one comes out, and if the Freedom Fighters are present, I'm sure I'll have my grievances again. Even more so if it turns out they're the stars once more. I'd be right back where I was before except probably feeling worse since, for a time, I was in a position where I anticipated it being a lot better for me. That won't deter me from doing everything I can to enjoy it regardless. These comics are the thing that I'm kind of relying upon to satisfy me when it comes to utilizing the characters and the world now. For all the problems I had, they were still all around. They all got to do things. They didn't feel like meaningless props.

I don't see a revamp on that coming from Sonic Team. Ever. 

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Ooh are we talking about how if Ian made Sonally references he hated Amy but if he made Sonamy references he hated Sally. *Wipes away tears* It's like 2009-2015 Bumbleking. I'm getting all nostalgic.

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2 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

Ooh are we talking about how if Ian made Sonally references he hated Amy but if he made Sonamy references he hated Sally. *Wipes away tears* It's like 2009-2015 Bumbleking. I'm getting all nostalgic.

I'm guessing those were dark times for the vlog.

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10 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Okay, let's be fair here. There were far more diverse character interactions under Flynn's run than you can shake a stick at towards the games, so I don't buy the lack of character interactions part.

Not sure how bland they were either, and given that in storytelling, characters are just as much tools to the plot as everything else (should) be...I really don't follow or see the problem. You might as well elaborate a little bit, because while no one will deny that Ian does have his writing flaws, those you brought up don't hold much water against him. Never mind that Ian's "team logic" has without a doubt been more flexible than the games, despite sticking focus to the FF as a group. You don't often see the Chaotix working directly with Sonic and co as often anywhere else by comparison, for example.

It's far more than what I would say of Sonic Team, who are even more stuck to "team logic" since Heroes that character interactions aren't as diverse, flexible, or even existent-- when was the last time we saw Big team up with Sonic, or even Shadow buddy up (or fight against) Knuckles in the game, for example? And let's not forget he made use of practical every current game character during the Unleashed arc--okay, in all fairness, Blaze and Silver were in their respective dimension and time period (and Silver's major arc was actually written by someone else) but he still made stories for them during that arc.

Hm, I think I've got the best way to explain what I mean. I'll try to play a little game with you, although I could be wrong because I dropped the comics out of frustration mid-way, far from the ending. But let's go.

In the main book, post-reboot...

How many times did Tails talk to anybody who's name is not Sonic?

Did Rotor ever talked to anybody at all? He had a great opportunity for a family in the villian side, but he wrote his father in a "easy-to-hate" mode, making him so uninteresting... Wasted opportunity.

Did Nicole ever said a single word to anybody who's name is not Sally?

[...]

If you re-think about it, the list goes on and will get kinda long. And, of course, "talk" is not generic soldier Sonic-Forces-ish dialogue. If you want me to care about those characters for more reasons than SatAM nostalgia and mere design, show me their personal motivations. Sally, the ever hateful sue was the only one who I can remember that had some exposition in this area.

Removing the FF's as a team and making each character go on as guests of their own way would probably allow those things to happen. I'm sure that making things this way, people who were non-previous-fans will cease to be in this REMOVE KEBAB mode that we are seeing over the forums and will begin to show some care for them (maybe even Sally herself, who knows?).

And please, stop comparing Sonic team with this. Writing a better dialogue than Sonic Colors and thinking that it's good is not a achievement. That would be like me winning a fat boy in a 100m sprinting and telling that, because of this feat, I'm a good athlete in good shape lmao.

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