Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[MetalSkulkBane]

On 5/12/2021 at 9:50 PM, Wraith said:

Sonic Universe #1 was also written to be one self contained story. Maybe they should give more 1-2 issue long story arcs a try again so that you're left more satisfied once a release finally comes around? Idk.

Last arc I thought they were kind of spinning their wheels until they ended up paying more things off than I thought they would by the end, so I guess I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
 

That is argument. Why "low level, chillax filler story" need whole 4 issues, when usually Sonic Universe had to make epics in that amount of time.

Still, compare Sonic Universe #1 to IDW Sonic #1. Same amount of pages, what was accomplished?

- One great scene fixing Tails arc from forces
- Introducing mystery of 'chairman'
- That's it.

Rest of the issue is just fighting Badniks. Which isn't exiting, I know Sonic can break badniks. If badniks were lead by super badniks that might given me the pause. Or if badniks had bombs and Sonic had to stop them without actually hitting them. Or if focus was badniks were flying to high from his reach, then...
Look, I can throw ideas all day.
(of course all of this would been easier to forgive if next issue didn't repeat the formula)

And like I said, the stretching story into 4 issues should allow for more emotional stuff. For more opportunities for each character to shine. This arc has only 5 characters (not counting villains), so why neither Sonic, Tails or Amy didn't do anything memorable in this issue? How come Tangle and Belle didn't had any bonding moment? Was fighting all 4 Egg Vipers this vital to the plot?

Last arc should been low stakes fun adorable story about chao racing, with biggest treat being mean Cluth mistreating his pets.
This arc should been about crazy new dimension, with Sonic fighting Combiniks, but his real enemy being rules of physics being rewritten in front of him. Special stage on steroids. or Null Space done right. Some surreal imagery all Sonic CD special stages would been great

Edited October 31, 2023 by MetalSkulkBane

[Kuzu]

25 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I guess that's why Sonic Forces was so well received by the gaming community at large.

It's also nowhere near as hated outside of the fandom soooo. Nobody really cared about it either way. Now if you mark that as some unforgivable sin, then they hey that's on you. But most people have moved on from Forces, yet the fanbase still feels the need to talk about how shit it was almost four years later.

Scratch that, the fanbase still talks about how bad Sonic 06 was almost a decade and a half later. So I will once again reiterate, if you're dedicating this much time and energy about game that's fifteen years old at this point to talk about how bad it was, then maybe problem's are in the individual :V

 

 

 

Moving back to the comics, I think the monthly schedule and the delays are a factor here. The arc feels like its moving at a snail's pace due to the period of time between releases. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about that. 

3 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

That is argument. Why "low level, chillax filler story" need whole 4 issues, when  usually Sonic Universe had to make epics in that amount of time.

Still, compare Sonic Universe #1 to IDW Sonic #1. Same amount of pages, what was accomplished?

- One great scene fixing Tails arc from forces
- Introducing mystery of 'chairman'
- That's it.

Rest of the issue is just fighting Badniks. Which isn't exiting, I know Sonic can break badniks. If badniks were lead by super badniks that might given me the pause. Or if badniks had bombs and Sonic had to stop them without actually hitting them. Or if focus was badniks were flying to high from his reach, then...
Look, I can throw ideas all day.
(of course all of this would been easier to forgive if next issue didn't repeat the formula)

And like I said, the stretching story into 4 issues should allow for more emotional stuff. For more opportunities for each character to shine. This arc has only 5 characters (not counting villains), so why neither Sonic, Tails or Amy didn't do anything memorable in this issue? How come Tangle and Belle didn't had any bonding moment? Was fighting all 4 Egg Vipers this vital to the plot?

Last arc should been low stakes fun adorable story about chao racing, with biggest treat being mean Cluth mistreating his pets.
This arc should been about crazy new dimension, with Sonic fighting Combiniks, but his real enemy being rules of physics being rewritten in front of him. Special stage on steroids. or Null Space done right. Some surreal imagery all Sonic CD special stages would been great

IDW #1 wasn't a self-contained story though like Universe #1, it's the start of an introduction arc and building up to it's first climax. 

Now if you prefer single issue, self-contained stories over four issue long arcs, then that's another story. 

 

And even then, Universe #1 is the conclusion of a plot point that started in the main Archie series that technically spanned two issues if you include its introduction and the final issue of Sonic X. So it's technically a three issue arc. 

[dbzfan7]

I don't think release schedule helps either with the delays. But many interesting points I didn't think of before are being brought up. This would be a story just like the games and yet isn't very appealing funny enough. I'll try to figure out why it doesn't strike a cord with me I suppose.

-I like simple story idea and I like how this trio are in a crazy weird place where things don't make sense to them. Lots of possibilities and things I feel you could do with an area where anything seems to go.

-I don't feel anything with Tangle or Belle is interesting or warrants the time it takes. Ok well I like what they are hinting with Belle even if it seems pretty obvious, but I suppose outside of that loose plot line they kinda take away from the bizarre test chamber that was supposed to be the feature without really filling in something worth while.

-I like the mixed badniks. Very cool.

-The little action they want to show is brief, kinda bland, and forgettable.

-The banter is pretty forgettable too and I can't recall a single word after I finished.

 

I really don't envy the job it is to try and please as many people as they can. It really is a damned if you damned if you don't. I'm wondering if it would just be better for me to wait til a full arc is done or a bunch of issues come out and then binge them. Maybe the comics are better to be binged than to be followed issue by issue?

[Red Hot Jack]

It does feel very short and not much happens, I totally get why people think of it as a filler issue. Not much happens aka the plot doesn't move forward. I did prefer last arc, the Chao one, it had a lot more fun personality and cool moments. I still prefer big tense arcs but we can't have them everytime or it loses the special appeal.

I don't think it would be totally fair to compare IDWs debut issue with Universe's. But they are first issues so it gets a pass, in IDW's defense it's my least liked issue in the run so far, the most boring one.

But it doesn't have to be IDW vs Archie all the time, you know.

[Kuzu]

6 minutes ago, dbzfan7 said:

I really don't envy the job it is to try and please as many people as they can. It really is a damned if you damned if you don't. I'm wondering if it would just be better for me to wait til a full arc is done or a bunch of issues come out and then binge them. Maybe the comics are better to be binged than to be followed issue by issue?

This is a good idea, because I can tell you things become a lot more easily digestible when you can just binge them.

[MetalSkulkBane]

4 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

IDW #1 wasn't a self-contained story though like Universe #1, it's the start of an introduction arc and building up to it's first climax. 

Now if you prefer single issue, self-contained stories over four issue long arcs, then that's another story. 

 

And even then, Universe #1 is the conclusion of a plot point that started in the main Archie series that technically spanned two issues if you include its introduction and the final issue of Sonic X. So it's technically a three issue arc. 

...I have no idea what point you're trying to  make.

All I'm saying is that issues should have "stuff" happening. Funny, emotional, dramatic. Low or high stakes. Stuff has to happen.

Sonic fighting badniks. Is not stuff. It's filler. At best it's a base that needs to be edited every issue in a way that stuff happens.

[Diogenes]

11 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

But most people have moved on from Forces, yet the fanbase still feels the need to talk about how shit it was almost four years later.

Sonic fans sure do talk about Sonic more than people who aren't Sonic fans. Truly a sign of an unhealthy obsession.

[GentlemanX]

7 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Moving back to the comics, I think the monthly schedule and the delays are a factor here. The arc feels like its moving at a snail's pace due to the period of time between releases. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about that.

Wasn't the comic supposed to be switching to two issues a month? Did that stop? Delays are a problem regardless, and have been for pretty much IDW's entire run, but I thought the faster release schedule would help at least a little.

As for complaints about the book's narrative at present - eh. As someone who never asked for the book to be more Sega Sonic focused and preferred pre-reboot Archie the most, I don't think the book is ill due to that particular limitation. You can tell engaging narratives and more mundane but still entertaining slice of life stuff within Sega's restrictions pretty easy. I didn't care for what I've read of the Metal Virus Arc but that's because I didn't like it in concept - zombie apocalypse stories don't do it for me and this one seemed to be no different. The stuff with Neo Metal Sonic at the end of the first arc was cool and that was done within Sega's restrictions, even giving us neat new stuff like Super Neo Metal Sonic. If the issue with the current fluff stories are they feel boring, it's probably either due to it not being what the particular reader is interested in, or the execution is just lacking for one reason or another.

[Kuzu]

Just now, MetalSkulkBane said:

...I have no idea what point you're trying to  make.

All I'm saying is that issues should have "stuff" happening. Funny, emotional, dramatic. Low or high stakes. Stuff has to happen.

Sonic fighting badniks. Is not stuff. It's filler. At best it's a base that needs to be edited every issue in a way that stuff happens.

The stuff that you're comparing it too aren't equivalent; Sonic Universe #1 is technically the climax to a three issue long arc, this issue is only the third part of a four issue long arc, and IDW #1 is the beginning of an arc. 

You're ignoring the contexts of where and when these issues are released and trying to judge them on an individual basis when that doesn't really work. 

 

A good suggestion I can give you is to re-read this entire story arc once all of the issues are out, and then judge it like that. Because then you're reading the story arc in its full context without having to wait four months between releases. Judging each of these arcs on an individual basis doesn't quite work because you're judging parts of an entire whole. 

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Sonic fans sure do talk about Sonic more than people who aren't Sonic fans. Truly a sign of an unhealthy obsession.

If you think its perfectly fine and healthy to obsess over a game that's almost half a decade old and wasn't even all that offensive as if it just came out recently, then hey, that's on you.  Just saying, there are much better things that you can be doing with your time. 

If that's what you define as "being a fan" then I have absolutely no shame in disassociating myself from such a fandom and just focusing on the stuff that I enjoy. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

1 minute ago, Kuzu said:

The stuff that you're comparing it too aren't equivalent; Sonic Universe #1 is technically the climax to a three issue long arc, this issue is only the third part of a four issue long arc, and IDW #1 is the beginning of an arc. 

You're ignoring the contexts of where and when these issues are released and trying to judge them on an individual basis when that doesn't really work. 

 

A good suggestion I can give you is to re-read this entire story arc once all of the issues are out, and then judge it like that. Because then you're reading the story arc in its full context without having to wait four months between releases. Judging each of these arcs on an individual basis doesn't quite work because you're judging parts of an entire whole. 

One would think every issue must stand on its own. But okay, can I compare SU#1 to IDW #4? That was end of the arc. And it accomplished

- Introducing Tangle
- Introducing Blaze
- fight badniks, fight, fight fight
Sure the issue had amazing art, it could been used on better script.

 

How about something outside Sonic? Batman Adventure (2003), one of my favorite series I read. First issue

- Introduces idea that Penguin is now a mayor
- Mystery of assassins attacking villains of Gotham
- Attack of those assassins at Arkham, fun dramatic action packed with Two Face, Harley, Poison and few minor  villains
(note that first issue did no feel like starting with Batman beating boring robbers)
- Back-up story about Batman image of Zorro.

And before someone accuses me of "quantity over quality attitude",
- Best case scenario is getting both things
- But fine, I can take issue that accomplishes very little but does it very well
- Sonic IDW #1 did great job on Tails, but that took 2 pages, not whole issue. Rest wasn't that bad, but wasn't that great.
- Sonic IDW #39 did NOTHING great. I get mostly action that isn't even #1 issue good. And I should just be fine with that? Just accept that we must have filler before #40 do something interesting (maybe)?

[Slashy]

Buddy if you are going to compare Sonic to comic/cartoon/anime legends like Batman you are probably going to be disappointed.

[Kuzu]

12 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

One would think every issue must stand on its own. But okay, can I compare SU#1 to IDW #4? That was end of the arc. And it accomplished

- Introducing Tangle
- Introducing Blaze
- fight badniks, fight, fight fight
Sure the issue had amazing art, it could been used on better script.

 

How about something outside Sonic? Batman Adventure (2003), one of my favorite series I read. First issue

- Introduces idea that Penguin is now a mayor
- Mystery of assassins attacking villains of Gotham
- Attack of those assassins at Arkham, fun dramatic action packed with Two Face, Harley, Poison and few minor  villains
(note that first issue did no feel like starting with Batman beating boring robbers)
- Back-up story about Batman image of Zorro.

And before someone accuses me of "quantity over quality attitude",
- Best case scenario is getting both things
- But fine, I can take issue that accomplishes very little but does it very well
- Sonic IDW #1 did great job on Tails, but that took 2 pages, not whole issue. Rest wasn't that bad, but wasn't that great.
- Sonic IDW #39 did NOTHING great. I get mostly action that isn't even #1 issue good. And I should just be fine with that? Just accept that we must have filler before #40 do something interesting (maybe)?

I don't know what to tell you dude; you clearly aren't enjoying the book and it's been almost forty issues now, I really don't know what you even want or expect anymore, but if you still aren't satisfied after three years, then I think you might have to rethink if this book is even for you anymore.  Because if after three years you have found yourself not enjoying it, it might be time to move on to something else. 

Its certainly not perfect and I'm willing to admit that, and I certainly want things to get better too. But I'm also still enjoying it despite that which justifies my continued interest. If you're constantly being disappointed by something and only staying around for things "to get better", I honestly can't understand why you would continue to consume something that you're actively not enjoying, unless you just enjoy criticizing it and pointing out its flaws. 

[MetalSkulkBane]

4 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Buddy if you are going to compare Sonic to comic/cartoon/anime legends like Batman you are probably going to be disappointed.

1 I was comparing it to Sonic at first, but I was ordered to stop that.
2 Right, so I should avoid mentioning that obviously amazing "batman forever".
Batman is such a large brand that not all stories are on pedestal. I doubt anyone else on this forum even read batman adventures 2003.

5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

I don't know what to tell you dude; you clearly aren't enjoying the book and it's been almost forty issues now, I really don't know what you even want or expect anymore, but if you still aren't satisfied after three years, then I think you might have to rethink if this book is even for you anymore.  Because if after three years you have found yourself not enjoying it, it might be time to move on to something else. 

Its certainly not perfect and I'm willing to admit that, and I certainly want things to get better too. But I'm also still enjoying it despite that which justifies my continued interest. If you're constantly being disappointed by something and only staying around for things "to get better", I honestly can't understand why you would continue to consume something that you're actively not enjoying, unless you just enjoy criticizing it and pointing out its flaws. 

You could say "okay, I see your point" or "compelling case" because in our last discussion, every argument, no matter how much effort I putted into it, just bounced from you like tennis ball from a wall. You don't have to agree with me, but it would be nice if you at least tried to see my perspective.

And why I stick around I can give you several answers
- Things don't improve without criticism. You can't be satisfied with "good enough"
- There are many things II did liked, like Metal Virus Apocalypse and parts of Neo Saga.
- I just know that Flynn can do better than that., I seen him do it.
- Sonic is my favorite franchises and I like knowing him. I watched entire Sonic Underground and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. A lot of them were pretty bad, but in the long run I liked knowing larger Sonic world. I'm aware, it's a bit contrived.

[Natie]

Pretty funny alt cover. I can't help but wonder if the scratch and grounder reference here is indicative of aosth characters not being barred from the comic at least. Probably not.

[Kuzu]

58 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

1 I was comparing it to Sonic at first, but I was ordered to stop that.
2 Right, so I should avoid mentioning that obviously amazing "batman forever".
Batman is such a large brand that not all stories are on pedestal. I doubt anyone else on this forum even read batman adventures 2003.

You could say "okay, I see your point" or "compelling case" because in our last discussion, every argument, no matter how much effort I putted into it, just bounced from you like tennis ball from a wall. You don't have to agree with me, but it would be nice if you at least tried to see my perspective.

And why I stick around I can give you several answers
- Things don't improve without criticism. You can't be satisfied with "good enough"
- There are many things II did liked, like Metal Virus Apocalypse and parts of Neo Saga.
- I just know that Flynn can do better than that., I seen him do it.
- Sonic is my favorite franchises and I like knowing him. I watched entire Sonic Underground and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. A lot of them were pretty bad, but in the long run I liked knowing larger Sonic world. I'm aware, it's a bit contrived.

A lot of people can be satisfied with good enough and still expect more. I literally just said that.

 

I do understand your perspective because I've been there. But the difference is that I realized that if I'm not enjoying what I'm consuming, its fine to move on.

 

You seem to be under the impression that the more time you spend on something, the more it will be worth it. That's a classic case of a sunk cost fallacy, and I don't think I need to explain the problems with that type of thinking.

[SBR2]

24 minutes ago, Natie said:

Pretty funny alt cover. I can't help but wonder if the scratch and grounder reference here is indicative of aosth characters not being barred from the comic at least. Probably not.

All the little details are great but I especially love the Super Special Sonic Search and Smash Squad getting a shout out with I think Scratch's usernamebeing a nod to SSSS. Gridman. 

[Slashy]

4 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I honestly can't understand why you would continue to consume something that you're actively not enjoying, unless you just enjoy criticizing it and pointing out its flaws. 

This is an extremely common mindset amongst Sonic fans in general though.

Despite all of its problems, it has multiple points of showing competent storytelling. Almost good at times, and the art is stellar (even if I used to hate the dull colors). This comic is the only consistently ongoing Sonic thing going on and the only Sonic thing in the decade besides the film making an attempt to tell plots with stakes. It is absolutely better than the Pontaff and Penders stuff that came before it, but I will argue it is still clearly worse than a lot of the story content prior to 2010 (even Sonic X has a better track record of good stories than IDW does).

People like him want the comic to be good because the only other alternatives are the film, fanfiction, or begging that Sonic Prime is actually good (which I bet you if it is more people will have less patience for IDWs writing failings).

[Sonictrainer]

Some more info on Belle

[VO.SUPER]

I guess my headcanon is that she has her ears hiding under her hat. 

And yeah, figuring that she's a mouse makes sense. Not a lot of regular mice Mobian designs. 

[DabigRG]

My problem with the issue is simply that it's mostly a boss fight and almost nothing else. This on top of the fact that an arc featuring  Sonic, Tails, Amy, Eggman Orbot, and Cubot, with the tagalong Belle and Tangle wasn't of much interest to me in the first place--it's almost your bare minimum status quo. People have a fair point that the  experimental dimension stuff and to an extent the Combi-niks should be the main attraction, but they weren't quite well used enough (something that crops up a number of times throughout this comic actually) and I honestly didn't that think much of either, nor does the reuse of  the Egg Viper(elements and especially the hoses aside) elevate the generic feel for lack of a better word. Plus Belle is not as new, barely even starting to heat up, and the mystery behind her doesn't even factor into this issue and I'm still not really a fan of Tangle admittedly, so neither of them help.

It doesn't help that the arc beforehand started very much not like this, as you would want these comics to do, only to force in things that only served to distract from and derail it. Bonus points for the ad referencing the more interesting false tease one of the upcoming issues has for a cover.

[Sonictrainer]

17 hours ago, Natie said:

Pretty funny alt cover. I can't help but wonder if the scratch and grounder reference here is indicative of aosth characters not being barred from the comic at least. Probably not.

 

17 hours ago, SBR2 said:

All the little details are great but I especially love the Super Special Sonic Search and Smash Squad getting a shout out with I think Scratch's usernamebeing a nod to SSSS. Gridman. 

Sonic, Tails, & Amy have their Sonic Chronicles UI plus other commenters on the screen include Infinite, an Egg Fighter from Eggmanland, & Starline.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I have to admit, this was easily the weakest issue of the arc thus far, gravity gets flipped around, there's a few Egg Viper fights, and Tangle/Belle trick Orbot and Cubot. Beyond a few good character interactions (Tangle attempting to reverse psychology Cubot was great), there wasn't a ton that happened, beyond getting the characters from this set-piece to the next set-piece in a not very interesting, and mostly rushed manner. Tangle and Belle has things going on, but I don't think what they have going is particularly interesting.

I'm kind of disappointed that really only Issue 2 bent into the whole surreal aspect of the tower. It's easily the strongest thing the arc had going for it, and all we really got out of it was a creepy replica village, with mixed up Badniks, and while that's neat, it's lame that's the only thing. Like, this is a world completely and totally controlled by Eggman, mixed with surreal things due to being Eggman's invention testing ground, and yet...we got one replica village, a couple of looping hallways, gravity being turned upside down, and then just Egg-Viper recolours with new elemental attacks. It feels like they had an idea for one issue and felt like they needed to fill out the other three to make a whole arc. I would've rather the whole thing focus on Sonic and co being forced through a surreal Eggman controlled tower, instead of just shoe-horning the group into the final boss fight so quickly.

[Kuzu]

I feel like things would have been paced better if Belle was part of Sonic's group from the getgo, as opposed to having to split focus with them and her pair with Tangle. It makes both sides feel somewhat incomplete. 

[DabigRG]

To talk a little bit more about the Egg Vipers, why are they Egg Vipers? What exactly do the Egg Vipers do to enhance/complement the issue? This isn't like the Crab Mech from Forces, which was a relatively new thing from the topical game that technically wants destroyed from what I recall.

They should have been an original creation that we haven't seen before, possibly taking cues from the Egg Viper's design mentality while still maintaining the elemental aspect(was there a similar trio in Sonic X or something, btw?). Imagine what a curtain reveal it would have been if the first Egg Viper did show--even if it remained in the cover--as an immediate oh shit that goes down after a fair bit due to Team Fighters working together, only for Eggman to reveal these new mechs that could potentially tie into the weird nuke testing site/gravity screw dimension motif somehow.

Cause honesty, the super obvious hoses were the only other humorous twist on the trio when the follow up to the warmup that was the Egg Viper is...another Egg Viper, only this time accompanied by a green and blue one.

Is there some mandate against IDW making too many original mechs or something?

[Mauro Fonseca]

Not to excuse anything or praise anything or speak for anyone, since I'm not exactly unbiased here but also didn't participate in this issue, but I should point out that designing an original mech likely would mean design work, Sega approvals, etc- in other words, more behind-the-scenes stuff happening, which can slow down production more and just be outright more difficult than going "Egg Viper but yellow".

 

(as for why Egg Vipers, I believe it probably was just "hey Egg Viper was cool and we haven't seen it in ages", since the entire setup is existing mechanical stuff with a twist- badniks remixed, etc.)