Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Multikaris]

3 hours ago, SBR2 said:

Og is fantastic. I honestly don't see what everyone's problem with him is.

He’s badly designed, makes little sense, and is generally unappealing. Could you tell him why you think he’s fantastic?

[NikoS]

On 12/24/2017 at 9:47 AM, RedFox99 said:

So I was reading this guy's post about why he doesn't like Ian's writing and he brought some pretty good point criticisms about the reboot. 

https://whitefox55.tumblr.com/post/168879508567/why-shattered-earth-is-a-mess-or-why-i-dont

For some reason i overlooked this post, but i was reading this today and, well, he starts saying the series awkwardly tries to pull a "we are canon in games" when that's not the case, they brought some games into the universe sure, but they never stated the contrary, also "choosing the games it want canon"? i think it's more it choosing what game it wants to show happening in flashbacks instead of the former, for i remember Ian saying every mainline game happened, the exceptions being Unleashed (current arc at the time) and Lost World (then planned future arc), also this:

Quote

For example, a doctor, who we find out originally programmed NICOLE, acts a bit distant towards her throughout the story. Then we find out that this doctor had programmed an AI program after his daughter, Nikki, dies and names the program NICOLE in her memory. Then the program finds Nikki’s data and incorporates that into NICOLE. So NICOLE looks, acts, talks, and sounds exactly like Nikki, basically making her a cyber-zombie of the doctor’s daughter.

No, that's not how any of it happened, Nicole (not being Nicole at the time) was created to map the neural functionality of Nikki's brain to try to preserve her mind after she passed away, but it was not ready in time. So the neural mapping program assimilated the coding  and start evolving based on the neural mapping done to try to preserve Nikki's mind (Nicole was still developing her consciousness even after her handheld was gave to Sally, as stated in Sonic Comic Origins: Nicole, she only became a "Living AI" after some time, it's not said how long, but i'd imagine at least 6 months to a year after she was handed to Sally), also it was Sally who named Nicole, after Ellidy gave her handheld to Sally before leaving Mobotropolis, and the name was suggested by Nigel IIRC, also Nicole and Nikki, aside from the ears, don't look alike at all, and are not the same individual by any means.

Spoiler

 

I mean, c'mom...

Also i really don't see how making Eggman the protagonist on an arc and having him threaten his subordinates is a down point, really, and making Sonic a villain "for no reason" during the Control arc was a decision that made the adaption better than the game, by actually giving some challenge to him, it was a welcome twist that is expected in an adaption, and claiming Tails was "worse than BOOM Knuckles" in the Champions arc is really exaggeration, he was just tricked by Honey c'mom.

[BlueSky]

2 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

Just hoping the fans of those characters won't say "the comic isn't worth reading anymore!" without giving a try. I know many were attached to the Archie series and are bummed. But Ian and other staff who made the characters/stories/art, which most of those people praised and loved, are coming back for IDW Sonic.

I can get what you mean, just please keep in mind some are really attached to these characters.

I myself am pretty crazy person in a (yet another) way; the IDW comic may be as good as ever, but every single time I'd pick it into my hands, let alone read it, it would make me to remember all the unspeakable rage and sorrow and misery I felt when the Archie one was cancelled WITH ONE SINGLE TWEET.

If it's awesome I'd feel too cautious to read it for the fear of losing yet again something I really enjoyed and loved, let alone all the heartache over the fact the characters I invested my heart into went into the rubbish bin because of some reason we don't know anything else about than there is a reason, hooray I feel like a child.

If it's not too awesome, I'll feel even worse since all that "what could've been" stuff starts going on around my head, all those cool unreleased pages, all the plotpoints, all the freaking characters... Do I need to continue? *Cue in "You Might"*

Seriously, I'd love to avoid too much of the heartache by just let it pass. That and I'm not having too much of a money. If I want to be a masochist I can do it way cheaper.

There're other comics I can read, you know, I don't need to buy these if they cause me misery even if that isn't intentional.

...

Aaand that's what'll pretty likely happen if even the FF gets left out, I'm not asking more than once in a while appearances, jeez!

---

9 minutes ago, NikoS said:

For some reason i overlooked this post, but i was reading this today and, well, he starts saying the series awkwardly tries to pull a "we are canon in games" when that's not the case, they brought some games into the universe sure, but they never stated the contrary, also "choosing the games it want canon"? i think it's more it choosing what game it wants to show happening in flashbacks instead of the former, for i remember Ian saying every mainline game happened, the exceptions being Unleashed (current arc at the time) and Lost World (then planned future arc), also this:

No, that's not how any of it happened, Nicole (not being Nicole at the time) was created to map the neural functionality of Nikki's brain to try to preserve her mind after she passed away, but it was not ready in time. So the neural mapping program assimilated the coding  and start evolving based on the neural mapping done to try to preserve Nikki's mind (Nicole was still developing her consciousness even after her handheld was gave to Sally, as stated in Sonic Comic Origins: Nicole, she only became a "Living AI" after some time, it's not said how long, but i'd imagine at least 6 months to a year after she was handed to Sally), also it was Sally who named Nicole, after Ellidy gave her handheld to Sally before leaving Mobotropolis, and the name was suggested by Nigel IIRC, also Nicole and Nikki, aside from the ears, don't look alike at all, and are not the same individual by any means.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I mean, c'mom...

Also i really don't see how making Eggman the protagonist on an arc and having him threaten his subordinates is a down point, really, and making Sonic a villain "for no reason" during the Control arc was a decision that made the adaption better than the game, by actually giving some challenge to him, it was a welcome twist that is expected in an adaption, and claiming Tails was "worse than BOOM Knuckles" in the Champions arc is really exaggeration, he was just tricked by Honey c'mom.

Then there's two of us at least. At least this is invented:

3 hours ago, BlueSky said:

O__________________________O

And the smashing king was the one who proposed the name Nicole to Sally... XD

[PublicEnemy1]

As long as Ian keeps his promise of making good stories, then I'm good.

[RedFox99]

So, how canon do you think the games will be within the comics this time?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

9 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

I was wondering when he (or anyone working for IDW) would make it clear. Not a surprise, more of a relief tbh. 

Just hoping the fans of those characters won't say "the comic isn't worth reading anymore!" without giving a try. I know many were attached to the Archie series and are bummed. But Ian and other staff who made the characters/stories/art, which most of those people praised and loved, are coming back for IDW Sonic.

And if they do decide it’s not worth reading to give it a try?

I’m sorry, but this is kinda rich after people who dislike those characters made similar implications (joking or not, I honestly don’t care) if certain characters made it in, or any other pre-determined disgust made prior to want such characters removed from having any further appearances.

If the fans decide it’s not worth giving a shot, I honestly wouldn’t blame them for it after this revelation.

[PublicEnemy1]

There is a silver lining to this. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, he might be able to use those characters after a while. Ian said (on a game livestream that hasn't been put up yet) that he can't use dead characters like Mephiles and Black Doom. But he said that might change in the future. He said the same thing about the Boom characters, as he said "in the foreseeable future," implying that he might be able to use these characters on a later date. I'm guessing the same would be said for Ian's Archie characters.

[Sean]

At this point I just want Ian, Sega, or whoever to hurry up and deconfirm the Freedom Fighters so I can stop hoping they'll return even though I know they won't.

[Multikaris]

3 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

There is a silver lining to this. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, he might be able to use those characters after a while. Ian said (on a game livestream that hasn't been put up yet) that he can't use dead characters like Mephiles and Black Doom. But he said that might change in the future. He said the same thing about the Boom characters, as he said "in the foreseeable future," implying that he might be able to use these characters on a later date. I'm guessing the same would be said for Ian's Archie characters.

I have a thing that maybe it’s because some assets of Boom are still in production (the toyline), the characters are grandfathered in. 

 

And another silver lining: perhaps with the final quashing of the Freedom Fighter concept, perhaps someone could do an original IP comic based around the idea?

[Zaysho]

3 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

And another silver lining: perhaps with the final quashing of the Freedom Fighter concept, perhaps someone could do an original IP comic based around the idea?

"Freedom fighters," dystopian futures, war, environmental themes, etc. aren't so unique to the original comic/SatAM that something couldn't be made using it. It's pretty generic and open. If we're talking about spinning off the actual SatAM/Archie characters into a new IP, I can't say I'd be interested. These characters are so ingrained into Sonic's history I don't think I can, nor do I want to see them apart from Sonic. I'm personally not holding out any hope of them returning, and I'm not hinging what little interest I have in this new book on that, but I wouldn't want to see SEGA or whoever try to revive them out of that context. They're better off shelved at that point. It's bad enough Ken Penders is legally allowed to make the Lara-Su Chronicles, I don't want to see characters I care about being used in ways I didn't ask for.

[SSF1991]

I really don't like where this is going. We're given non-answers to questions and we're going around in circles, or we get a depressing answer and it reinforces the whole "new direction" thing in a way that no one wanted. I never would've anticipated at this time last year that this is what the state of the Sonic comics would be 12 months later. I still cannot wrap my head around this whole thing.

What an absolute train wreck this has been for Sonic comics this year. I feel so bad for Sonic comic fans right now. Between the screwy "answers" from all the parties involved including SEGA and IDW, Archie ripping off Sonic subscribers and the increasingly alarming news suggesting a lot of beloved Archie characters aren't coming back, there is nothing really to be particularly excited for. The only good news has been that Ian Flynn is the head of the IDW Sonic comics. But that's it.

I hate to be negative but...good lord. How do you recover the Sonic comic branch from all this?

[Salamander]

It seems fairly straightforward.  The IDW comic will be a new approach which will (or at least should) live or die on its own merits, not on its level of affinity with previous efforts.  The expectation is that readers will be drawn from those individuals who want to read comic books about the Sonic characters and universe rather than having a specific preference for a previous comic series (Fleetway fans have already been through this, of course), along with new readers drawn in by the IDW label and the prominence and advertising opportunities that allows.  The big question is whether the majority of Archie fans would be willing to retain interest in a new product or whether their love for the series was based around specific characters.  It's a bit of a gamble, but not necessarily one there was any choice about; the chances of the IDW comic being in any way a continuation of Archie were essentially nil, the only real question was which characters would be available for use farther down the line - and that's really still up in the air.  To begin with, they'll naturally want to define it as its own product.  The big test on character inclusion comes later, when the universe starts to broaden out.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Even without the Freedom Fighters, I can't imagine we won't see bargain-brand knockoffs of some characters Flynn made, renamed or slightly redesigned so they're technically "different".

Either way I don't see much reason to be pessimistic. We've gotten non-answers, absolute silence, roundabout discussions and the like plenty already, and we're gonna learn a ton come January (probably). If we survived the leadup to Forces we can survive this.

[BlueSky]

Well, the thing is, I'm not too sure anymore if I even want to survive this. Yeah, I'm that kind of jerk.

Look at it this way; I've invested my time, my affection, my money and lots of space and sleep time for the Archie stuff, mostly by my own choice of course but still.

Usually I don't really have too much of a free time, and I have even less money.

I'm not emotionally so strong when it comes to stuff like this; I grew really attached to those characters that weren't in anywhere else than in the comics, and it's a risky gamble when we're talking about franchise comics, as this year has quite spectacularly demonstrated. I don't really know if I can take this kind of mental harassment anymore.

And that's why I'm drawing lines; if thing A happens, other things would go so smoothly the affect of thing A goes really close to zero. And when the thing A is about whether or not the characters I've grown really attached to thus would cause me sorrow for reading this new thing because how tactlessly this all has gone down and the fact those characters would be gone is a really large factor in the equation, they have really hard time to convince me to buy any of it.

If A stands for taking their really sweet time making us waiting and then eventually telling they're coming back, well, they still need to convince me they've not tried to squeeze any cheap ponts by it but it would still be a lot easier for me to read it, possibility rises pretty close around 100% if that's the case anyway.

And really, after seeing many interesting fan comics and some larger projects that make me interested more about them than all this waiting for nothing's made me about this upcoming stuff I'm not too impressed about any of this. I can keep reading the fan stuff if it manages to do stuff the official doesn't, even if it's hardly comparable to the so-called real deal.

Yes, I love the way Mr. Flynn has handled the stuff but all this messy handling (the tweet, all this secrecy and crypticness) has made this personal. And I pretty much lose half of my logic when things become personal. The one half left is biased against anyway.

When something becomes this personal it starts to take a form of a principle, and principles can be pretty dangerous.

I'm sorry but when there's like this one-ish thing I'd love to have (the FF that's true to it's core and not twisted by the personality appearing at least once in a while) I don't even feel I'm being too demanding, maybe I'm being childish, but I have hard time feeling myself as a way too demanding of a person about this matter.

That said, I'd really loved to see Mr. Flynn's characters getting into this thing too, but I dunno, maybe he just didn't find any way to transfer them into this thing without changing them too much, maybe they're going really far with this originality obsession they seem to have. I really can't do anything but to speculate. And if that's the case, well, I hope the FF'll get into this thing but the more they keep quiet the more I lose the very tiny amout of hope for it I already have. Losing stuff I've grown attached to is just so painful.

And I'm more of a hedonist than a masochist.

[Korke]

1 hour ago, BlueSky said:

I'm not emotionally so strong when it comes to stuff like this; I grew really attached to those characters that weren't in anywhere else than in the comics, and it's a risky gamble when we're talking about franchise comics, as this year has quite spectacularly demonstrated. I don't really know if I can take this kind of mental harassment anymore.

It's time to bury them and move on. Took me some time. I don't really listen or read to any info about the new comics, because it's clear that they won't use anything from the past, but won't say "no way" in a interview to not disappoint people in order to fabricate empty hopes, in a way that will make the old fans touch the new book at least once.

[NikoS]

Y'know what reeeeally grind my gears, the fact that in the livestream which Ian and Joe were the special guests, they went out of the way to mention all the FF by name when "answering" (the answer was a stay tuned, along with reassuring it was a new universe) if they would be in the new series, this and also they basically acknowledging that a lot of people would like to see them returning by asking how many of those in the line would ask the same question (if the FF would be returning) during the comic con panel Q&A, and it looks like it will be a no, so, why not say it, if it is a yes i can understand this kind of "#KnowingSmile" behaviour, but if it is a no it's better to outright disconfirm it.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

At this point, I'd be happy if we just had a resolution of their storyline, instead of Sega sitting on the rights for all eternity. There's always Archie Sonic Online if all else fails.  

[Sean]

More than anything else, I'm mainly irritated that this is the second time we've had the Sonic comic continuity gutted without any resolution or warning beforehand. I was really starting to get invested in the post-reboot comics and I was excited for the directions it could take after it wrapped up the Sonic Unleashed arc, so it felt somewhat insulting catching up with it all just to be greeted with the comics going on hiatus for half a fucking year before Sega deciding to pull their thumbs out of their asses to officially announce its cancellation.

The IDW run could be amazing for all anyone knows, but right now I don't care and I'm exhausted as all hell over investing any interest in Sonic comics. All these vague answers and "maybes" and dancing around questions only serve to distance me further and I don't see myself getting attached to the comics anytime soon, regardless of the talent remaining behind them. I don't fucking care anymore

[Multikaris]

7 hours ago, Zaysho said:

"Freedom fighters," dystopian futures, war, environmental themes, etc. aren't so unique to the original comic/SatAM that something couldn't be made using it. It's pretty generic and open. If we're talking about spinning off the actual SatAM/Archie characters into a new IP, I can't say I'd be interested. These characters are so ingrained into Sonic's history I don't think I can, nor do I want to see them apart from Sonic. I'm personally not holding out any hope of them returning, and I'm not hinging what little interest I have in this new book on that, but I wouldn't want to see SEGA or whoever try to revive them out of that context. They're better off shelved at that point. It's bad enough Ken Penders is legally allowed to make the Lara-Su Chronicles, I don't want to see characters I care about being used in ways I didn't ask for.

I meant with the Roboticizations, the whole gene bomb origin, the Great War, and whatnot. All new characters instead of those ingrained into Sonic at all. 

 

Also, I predict the new characters added here, the book series that seems to be coming, or a possible future tv show won’t be worth caring about, ala the side characters from Mario cartoons, comics,  and books from the 80s-90s. 

[Zaysho]

1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

I meant with the Roboticizations, the whole gene bomb origin, the Great War, and whatnot. All new characters instead of those ingrained into Sonic at all.

I don't think SEGA, Archie, or even Ken Penders have some stranglehold on basic concepts that would be very different in a completely different context (see my first two sentences). Storylines and things can't be copyrighted, only the words as written.

[PublicEnemy1]

I'm sensing a lot of pessimism here. Just because Ian deconfirmed his characters, doesn't mean that they won't show up in the future, like with the dead characters and Boom elements. It's if you support this comic that you might get some things given enough time. At least let the comic establish itself to see how good it is.

[SSF1991]

53 minutes ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

I'm sensing a lot of pessimism here. Just because Ian deconfirmed his characters, doesn't mean that they won't show up in the future, like with the dead characters and Boom elements.

The reason why people have been pessimistic is not just because of Ian's characters. It's the screwing around when people just want to know what's going on. It's the constant preaching of this "new direction", something that is rubbing people the wrong way. It's the Archie Sonic subscribers getting ripped off of money for a series that they were still paying for months. We don't even have solicitations yet, and the first issue comes out in just a few months. The lack of Ian's characters is just part of what is looking to be a rather concerning situation.

There's still room to be optimistic, but I feel as if that room is waning. And even then, after the year that the Sonic comics have had, I cannot blame people for being fatigued or even pessimistic just because of that reason alone. They really need to prove that the IDW Sonic era will be a good one, and so far, they're not doing a good job at it.

[DabigRG]

On 12/27/2017 at 12:28 PM, Miragnarok said:

He’s badly designed, makes little sense, and is generally unappealing. Could you tell him why you think he’s fantastic?

Honestly, the fact literally the second complaint (and the first thing in the other notes) is "he gets to kick butt instead of Perci" just goes to show where people's priorities are.

Also, how exactly is he unlikable?

[Multikaris]

6 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Honestly, the fact literally the second complaint (and the first thing in the other notes) is "he gets to kick butt instead of Perci" just goes to show where people's priorities are.

Also, how exactly is he unlikable?

He doesn’t have too much depth beyond being a hippy guy who throws out a can of Jeet Kune Do once in a while. 

[DabigRG]

7 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

He doesn’t have too much depth beyond being a hippy guy who throws out a can of Jeet Kune Do once in a while. 

Neither does Beth the Shrew or half of the Boom originals, really. Still, I don't really see how depth would be a considerable factor in "likability" (which is honestly one of those terms that get thrown around a little too much to really gauge what it actually means half the time).

Granted, it's been quite some time since I've seen a lot of Boom episodes, but honestly Og was just kinda there for an episode and at least one cameo. The joke is that he's a pacifist among a previously esatblished tribe of Morlocks, simple as that. I don't really see how he's worth making any kinda fuss over other.