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IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog

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On 12/28/2017 at 7:25 PM, PublicEnemy1 said:

The thing is, how much will SEGA let it change? We still don't know to what extent of loosening the mandates they'll do, and if it does a rocky start, it could seriously alienate the readers from reading the comics before they got good, just like the Post-Reboot comics. Also, answer me this: name one game adaptation by IDW that didn't end up being cancelled or a miniseries? I'm still hopeful, but if it gets a bad start, it will be less likely that it'll get off the ground.

I agree. Their longest-lasting game comic happens to be fucking Skylanders, strictly aimed at children. And what happens when IDW throws out Sonic? Who will Sega trust? Will they go back to Archie with their tail between their tentacles, creating an Archie Sonic 3: In-Name-Only Boogaloo? Will they test a lesser licensed comic, publisher, like Boom or Bongo? Will they get Dark Horse or Image to try?

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6 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

I agree. Their longest-lasting game Comic happens to be fucking Skylanders, strictly aimed at children. And what happens when IDW throws out Sonic? Who will Sega trust? Will they go back to Archie with their tail between their tentacles, creating an Archie Sonic 3: In-Name-Only Boogaloo? Will they test a lesser licensed comic, publisher, like Boom or Bongo? Will they get Dark Horse or Image to try?

They'd probably just bury the comics. After a total continuity reboot, a poorly-handled cancellation, and a hypothetical second cancellation under the new publisher, trying to draw comic fans back again would be nearly impossible for them, to the point of not even bothering.

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4 minutes ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

For now, we should all stop worrying until more info is revealed about the comic, because I believe the lack of info is what's causing this doubt. I have some faith in this comic, but for now, I am cautiously optimistic.

If anything, this (EDIT: Archie's) cancellation proves the idea that "no news is good news" isn't always true.

Speaking of which, have they announced or hinted at anyone besides Flynn being on board? All I remember is that Tyson Hesse was only doing that promotional art, and maybe some covers or something, and we don't know who else is working on it besides Flynn and the editor (who's name escapes me)

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Nothing to do but hope things go well, but keep in mind things can always go horribly wrong again because (1) licensed comic (2) Sonikku

tbh Archie was kind of a fluke

4 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Or become a competent children’s licensed comic and nothing more. 

Was Archie ever anything more at it's best? I mean.. it lasted a very long time but what else could it be?

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3 hours ago, Tornado said:

And why is that? If I liked Archie Sonic; be it the characters, the storylines, the aesthetic, the setting, the fact that it deliberately ignored most of the stupid shit in the games for the past 15 years (this part in particular probably cannot be overstated), or even just the fact that it was the last direct link to the franchise' golden years, there's no obligation to need to give an unrelated adaptation a fair shake even if we do ignore the circumstances that it was borne out of. And since we really must consider those circumstances, why should it matter if its fair or not?

 

I was ambivalent to Archie post-reboot (liked it enough to pick up the occasional issue probably out of nostalgia more than anything, but not enough to get a subscription again), but I have zero interest in what has never not sounded like Sega's equivalent to The Amazing Spiderman; and I shouldn't need to care if even that summation is particularly fair to the new comic with the way things have happened since last December. I can't imagine how people who did actively follow and like Archie are similarly supposed to follow your argument that isn't far removed from Sega's company line of "you liked this old thing, possibly for 23 years; so now try this new, increasingly completely-unrelated thing!"

I kinda explained why I thought it was unfair right underneath: "Liking or hating certain adaptations is normal, but rating/valuing IDW  by how close it resembles or brings from Archie is so weird."  That's what I'm saying. It's fine if you were attached to one interpretation/adaptation and hated the source material, or just not interested. That cannot be helped. But reasoning it on whether it's similar or not is odd. IDW and Archie are two separate adaptations. It's not supposed to be similar, especially when each adaptation should be unique and attractive by itself. 

Also, is it really a new, increasingly completely-unrelated thing? IDW is new and different, but both are Sonic as source material. Both (will) have the same basic setting, world, and main characters + characters from the old games. Archie made a unique world, but many were based on concepts and materials from game or cartoons. We even have the same writer, and possibly same artists (we don't know if Tyson Hesse will draw outside of promotional, but IDW had said something about listening to fans)....

....I really want it to be different but tbh I'm expecting it to be the same  "Sonic comic by Ian and co.", without the Archie-exclusive assets and perhaps change in art style. 

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11 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

If people give it a try and think it's not good, that's totally fair. I was trying to say people who think IDW isn’t worth reading if "it doesn’t have [something from Archie]" is not.

Except they are under no obligation, whatsoever, to give it a try to begin with anymore than the same folks who decried Archie Sonic for the very things that others like were.

It “not having somehing from Archie” is all the more valid concern when you consider that they may possibly never get them back in form they gravitated to in the first place. And it’s downright asinine at best and insular at worst to treat that sentiment as unfair in favor of what not only Tornado outlined as “it’s too bad you lost something you had for 23 years, so now try something new” but a sentiment that has largely been favored by those against any hint of Archie Sonic elements surviving at the expense of those that want them to live on.

That’s the real crux here. Fans of Archie Sonic cared less of whether IDW would continue the Archie stories, because when it became worrying or clear that this would be the case, they at the very least wanted the things they liked, primarily the characters, to survive regardless of if they were given entirely new stories as a consequence. We already went through this shit with the first reboot, and barely salvaged much of it due to a technicality and incompetence on Archie’s end, and stuck around because somethings did manage to live—and while admittedly it too early to judge and it might very well change, it’s not looking to be the case here.

This kind of (potential) loss isn’t something you can expect others to give a chance, when one of the strongest reasons they would even give it a chance would be if their favorites at the very least survived despite the changes in publisher.

Quote

From BlueSky’s reply I learned that some can’t read because of emotional flashback. I’m sure some hate IDW because it feels like they “ended” Archie. It is unfair because it’s not IDW’s fault, but I guess that can’t be helped.

Still, it is a little bizarre for me that a new adaptation from a different company should carry on original characters and ideas from a different adaptation in a possibly different world/environment. Liking or hating certain adaptations is normal, but rating/valuing IDW  by how close it resembles or brings from Archie is so weird. That, and I’m more used to abrupt ends and multiple different adaptations of the same work. When a series get cancelled I am surprised at first but says “too bad!” and move on. So it was hard to understand why people can't see as separate. I wonder if the comeback of Ian and co. is making it harder for people?

I don’t know where you’re even getting this idea that people hate IDW for this, because as far as I’ve seen on this forum people have directed that anger either at Sega for stepping in abruptly and being a possible influence or at Archie for being such a colossal screw-up that warranted Sega stepping in in the first place. IDW is largely spared from the fire for the most part.

And I fail to see your logic in how bizarre a different company carrying on original characters and ideas from a different company is when neither one even owns these things in the first place—everything that was around after the first reboot is owned by Sega, so why the hell would this even be bizarre in the first place for a new company to use something from another company under the umbrella of the owner, barring said owner saying “no?”

And it’s somehow weird for you to understand why people can’t see as separate? Not only is that missing the whole point, I’d go so far as to say that’s blatantly sticking your head in the sand over why people are upset in the first place.

 

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6 hours ago, PublicEnemy1 said:

For now, we should all stop worrying until more info is revealed about the comic, because I believe the lack of info is what's causing this doubt. I have some faith in this comic, but for now, I am cautiously optimistic.

Same. I just want news, so they can drop this silence, and everyone should be happy, hopefully.

Changing the topic... as much as I liked Ian's characters from the reboot and the Freedom Fighters, my main reason for reading this stuff is clearly the game cast, am I the only one? So it wouldn't be a big loss if they appeared only in minor roles, and not taking a whole comic. There is a discussion on Reddit started by UncleBen94 (not sure if he's here, probably yes), who stated that the game cast can't carry a comic book without the Freedom Fighters, well... obviously I disagree, Sonic Universe proves they can, it focused on the extended cast but mostly Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze, Silver, Vector, Charmy, Espio, Rouge, etc. and people loved it more than the main comic which focused on Sonic and his group of rebels, so an IDW comic that focuses on the game cast IS a good idea. Though I'm sad about the loss of the reboot characters, or even the reboot versions of the Freedom Fighters, which I loved, because, still, even though a game centric comic is a great idea, it will never be 1:1 with the games, as Ian Flynn once said on Twitter, there will always be comic exclusive characters, so they might as well be the Freedom Fighters, I... simply hope they don't take the whole comic like they did during the Archie era. These are my thoughts.

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18 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Neither does Beth the Shrew or half of the Boom originals, really. Still, I don't really see how depth would be a considerable factor in "likability" (which is honestly one of those terms that get thrown around a little too much to really gauge what it actually means half the time).

Granted, it's been quite some time since I've seen a lot of Boom episodes, but honestly Og was just kinda there for an episode and at least one cameo. The joke is that he's a pacifist among a previously esatblished tribe of Morlocks, simple as that. I don't really see how he's worth making any kinda fuss over other.

It's the Sonic Fandom. Everything's worth making a fuss out of.

Quote

Or become a competent children’s licensed comic and nothing more. 

And that would be a bad thing because?

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On 12/29/2017 at 1:22 AM, KoDaiko said:

Also, is it really a new, increasingly completely-unrelated thing? IDW is new and different, but both are Sonic as source material. Both (will) have the same basic setting, world, and main characters + characters from the old games. Archie made a unique world, but many were based on concepts and materials from game or cartoons.

When I said "the fact that it deliberately ignored most of the stupid shit in the games for the past 15 years (this part in particular probably cannot be overstated)," I absolutely meant that it cannot be overstated. It cannot be based on the same source material when the source material the Archie Sonic came from no longer exists. Archie Sonic was (post-reboot somewhat less so, admittedly) Sega of America Golden Age 16-bit Sonic. Directly, inextricably derived. That Sonic was officially excised from the series outside of the Archie universe 18 years ago. There were people who still read the comic specifically for that reason; who hold the series proper in contempt in Sonic Team's hands. It's little different from how people liked Sonic Boom as a subseries (mostly just the cartoon, obviously) who cannot fucking stand anything Sonic Team has put out during the same time period.

My favorite anime since I was a kid is Tenchi Universe. I've got every DVD release of the show and movies Pioneer released and the much more recent Funimation ones, several art books, figurines and tons of unofficial shit. I'm about halfway through a laserdisc collection of them even though I don't have any way to watch them. I'm in this show for probably over a thousand dollars, all told. Outside of a couple of art books, I don't have anything specifically from the other two continuities of the franchise; because even though the characters are the "same" and most of the storylines are similar (both of which much moreso than Sonic's) and even though the OVA series was just continued this year and the Universe one has been dead since 2002, I don't like them nearly as much so I don't care. I don't like the character personalities as much, I don't like the character backstories (with one minor exception) and setting nearly as much, I don't like the storytelling as much, I don't like the tone as much. The only thing I'll concede is the artwork, since the OVA is the main continuity and obviously gets a lot more (and higher quality) official art and probably fan art as well and looked better in animation as well. And Archie versus post-Adventure Sega Sonic are much more different from each other than the Tenchi continuities are.

 

 

 

Your point above is like saying that media derived from the Full Metal Alchemist manga or Brotherhood is the same source material as things based off of the 2003 series (drop that bomb in a TV tropes or Myanimelist discussion thread). That, yes, stuff related to the Spiderman Trilogy is the same as stuff related to The Amazing Spiderman or Homecoming (which is something that people took so seriously on here that we had to ban people in the past for fighting over it).

 

22 hours ago, SBR2 said:

And that would be a bad thing because?

"It's the Sonic fandom. Everything that reaches the stunning heights of mediocrity should be celebrated."

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9 hours ago, Conquering Slay-bell Storm said:

Except they are under no obligation, whatsoever, to give it a try to begin with anymore than the same folks who decried Archie Sonic for the very things that others like were.

It “not having somehing from Archie” is all the more valid concern when you consider that they may possibly never get them back in form they gravitated to in the first place. And it’s downright asinine at best and insular at worst to treat that sentiment as unfair in favor of what not only Tornado outlined as “it’s too bad you lost something you had for 23 years, so now try something new” but a sentiment that has largely been favored by those against any hint of Archie Sonic elements surviving at the expense of those that want them to live on.

That’s the real crux here. Fans of Archie Sonic cared less of whether IDW would continue the Archie stories, because when it became worrying or clear that this would be the case, they at the very least wanted the things they liked, primarily the characters, to survive regardless of if they were given entirely new stories as a consequence. We already went through this shit with the first reboot, and barely salvaged much of it due to a technicality and incompetence on Archie’s end, and stuck around because somethings did manage to live—and while admittedly it too early to judge and it might very well change, it’s not looking to be the case here.

This kind of (potential) loss isn’t something you can expect others to give a chance, when one of the strongest reasons they would even give it a chance would be if their favorites at the very least survived despite the changes in publisher.

I don’t know where you’re even getting this idea that people hate IDW for this, because as far as I’ve seen on this forum people have directed that anger either at Sega for stepping in abruptly and being a possible influence or at Archie for being such a colossal screw-up that warranted Sega stepping in in the first place. IDW is largely spared from the fire for the most part.

And I fail to see your logic in how bizarre a different company carrying on original characters and ideas from a different company is when neither one even owns these things in the first place—everything that was around after the first reboot is owned by Sega, so why the hell would this even be bizarre in the first place for a new company to use something from another company under the umbrella of the owner, barring said owner saying “no?”

And it’s somehow weird for you to understand why people can’t see as separate? Not only is that missing the whole point, I’d go so far as to say that’s blatantly sticking your head in the sand over why people are upset in the first place.

 

Folded because I want to talk something else afterwards:

Spoiler

Well I guess it’s one of those “agree to disagree” things. I’m most likely going to repeat myself, and my apologies but I’m starting to lose interest...nothing personal, just my personality.

There is no obligation. I am also not talking about those who won’t read IDW as a whole. I was talking about the specific people that compare and judge based on it. I didn’t say they were wrong, but said they will miss out due to bias. Maybe “unfair” isn’t the right word but I don’t know a better word. If they don’t care, then so be it. I’m not here to say “you’re wrong for thinking, you need to read or else you suck!” It was feeling bad for both sides. None of my business? Sure. It is odd/new perspective TO ME because I have a different view and experience to those things.

Even though the Archie characters are owned by SEGA, its created in a specific interpretation of the series to fit in with the Archie universe’s atmosphere or setting. To have them in a different series then they need to introduce them as a “clean slate” or “ripoff” , which brings another topic of  is it even worth the trouble. Ok, maybe not THAT serious but contrasts the game casts are/should be consistent in their character and setting. And even then majority will still associate them with Archie and their version of Sonic. Yeah sure, that’s what I believe.

 

I wrote longer but cut out most, and my loss in interest is really showing, so apology if the structure/thought is messy. Wasn't expecting a "none of your business" to "well I hope people give a chance!" (expect for BlueSky and those at the beginning, they were more chill and explained their view than disagreeing). I am surprised I need to keep explain/defend my opinion. Well I don’t have to, I’m making the choice to do so. I feel impolite to not reply/notify I read their post. I walk away from some but feel bad when I do. Also made notes on improving my writing skills :huh:

 

One thing I am wondering is if Speedy ever appears, will his design be similar to Archie again or finally be the “white bird in green outfit” he is supposed to be? 

 

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Idw does and has some great comics I think they will be fine

Also i agree with tornado. There are certain bits of sonic i like. I like the ova universe.  I like the more realistic 06 verse. The fanbase will and forever be one of the most hostile and volatile randoms outside resident evil

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6 hours ago, KoDaiko said:

Folded because I want to talk something else afterwards:

  Hide contents

Well I guess it’s one of those “agree to disagree” things. I’m most likely going to repeat myself, and my apologies but I’m starting to lose interest...nothing personal, just my personality.

There is no obligation. I am also not talking about those who won’t read IDW as a whole. I was talking about the specific people that compare and judge based on it. I didn’t say they were wrong, but said they will miss out due to bias. Maybe “unfair” isn’t the right word but I don’t know a better word. If they don’t care, then so be it. I’m not here to say “you’re wrong for thinking, you need to read or else you suck!” It was feeling bad for both sides. None of my business? Sure. It is odd/new perspective TO ME because I have a different view and experience to those things.

Even though the Archie characters are owned by SEGA, its created in a specific interpretation of the series to fit in with the Archie universe’s atmosphere or setting. To have them in a different series then they need to introduce them as a “clean slate” or “ripoff” , which brings another topic of  is it even worth the trouble. Ok, maybe not THAT serious but contrasts the game casts are/should be consistent in their character and setting. And even then majority will still associate them with Archie and their version of Sonic. Yeah sure, that’s what I believe.

 

I wrote longer but cut out most, and my loss in interest is really showing, so apology if the structure/thought is messy. Wasn't expecting a "none of your business" to "well I hope people give a chance!" (expect for BlueSky and those at the beginning, they were more chill and explained their view than disagreeing). I am surprised I need to keep explain/defend my opinion. Well I don’t have to, I’m making the choice to do so. I feel impolite to not reply/notify I read their post. I walk away from some but feel bad when I do. Also made notes on improving my writing skills :huh:

 

One thing I am wondering is if Speedy ever appears, will his design be similar to Archie again or finally be the “white bird in green outfit” he is supposed to be? 

 

Is he supposed to be a white bird in a green outfit? I thought that was supposed to be an eggshell.

On the other hand, the closest thing Speedy actually looks like more than anything is ol' Pinhead here.

goofygand215.jpg

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Honestly, I was never able to get into the Archie Comics because by the time I could afford it, a certain mustachioed ass of a man came along and ruined everything. I say that Archie losing the license was what was needed, as now this whole thing can be started over without any baggage, allowing new people like me to get into it without the overhanging feeling that the comic is dying.

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13 minutes ago, DoubleXXCross said:

Is he supposed to be a white bird in a green outfit? I thought that was supposed to be an eggshell

He is, going by the artwork and in-game sprites. 

Speedy.png.ffc54c329e34d8130f5ac6fb4c1f7458.png

Image result for tails adventure enemies

He has a duck-like tail, and going by the loose straps he appears to be wearing a green helmet. And his design is in theme with other enemies

Image result for tails adventure enemies

Image result for tails adventure enemies

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27 minutes ago, Mister X said:

He is, going by the artwork and in-game sprites. 

Speedy.png.ffc54c329e34d8130f5ac6fb4c1f7458.png

Image result for tails adventure enemies

He has a duck-like tail, and going by the loose straps he appears to be wearing a green helmet. And his design is in theme with other enemies

Image result for tails adventure enemies

Image result for tails adventure enemies

This along with stuff like Bean being a woodpecker, Nack being a jerboa, the ugly original witchcarters... 

 

Will any of this be used?

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7 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

This along with stuff like Bean being a woodpecker, Nack being a jerboa

These two specifically... I kind of doubt they'd bother changing things now when people have become so familiar with Bean the Dynamite Duck and Nack the Weasel over the years.

3 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

What in the hell is a jerboa.

Four-toes-jerboa.jpg

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37 minutes ago, Mister X said:

These two specifically... I kind of doubt they'd bother changing things now when people have become so familiar with Bean the Dynamite Duck and Nack the Weasel over the years.

Four-toes-jerboa.jpg

Rofl is that real. What in the world. add a gun to it and im dying lol

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1 hour ago, VEDJ-F said:

Personally, I would have been shocked if any Archie-exclusive cast had survived. Ian-made or not, SEGA-owned or not, it doesn't alter the fact that previous tendencies were against the notion. 

Even how IDW Ghostbusters is a menagerie of past Ghostbuster material, even Extreme and Answer The Call? Even with the mention of Boom stuff?

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