Nakamura interview on Sonic Forces' premise, decisions for playable characters, porting to the Switch, and more

[Clewis]

32 minutes ago, KHCast said:

Still, you'd think by 2015, they'd have some improvements to the classic formula vs do literally nothing but shit with it, especially since by 2015, Mania was a thing, so they had time to go back and make some fixes to better correlate with how Mania functioned. It comes off like Classic was a last second inclusion.

I mean, you could honestly say the same about modern Sonic and how the boost gameplay is being handled in Forces. Neither modern nor classic appear to have had any notable improvements compared to their appearance in Generations (although I guess classic's broken spindash has been fixed), and the level design for both is a considerable step down as well.

And you'd think that Sonic Team would try to adjust classic Sonic's gameplay so that it's more consistent with the type of experience Mania is providing, but after 4, Generations, and Lost World I think it's quite apparent that they're incredibly out of touch regarding what the main appeal of classic Sonic actually is. To them it's nothing more than stylized presentation, shallow references, and 2D platforming with a loop thrown in here and there.

Considering this, it's no surprise Iizuka was wary of how of Mania would be received during its reveal, even with proven guys like Taxman and Stealth behind its development. To him it's just another classic-focused game, and the last time they tried something like that the fanbase wasn't exactly happy with it, to say the least.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

...This interview is depressing... It really makes one question if we can ever have a competent Sonic Team game again.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

I'm still looking forward to forces but honestly this interview just makes me go

Spoiler

Until this interview, I had a little hope that sonic team knew what they were doing, that when were not paying attention, sonic team is gonna turn the tables and pull off some amazing surprise that is well received by the general audience and community.

Now....i don't know anymore. why did they put classic sonic in this game?

Why don't they think that eggman can conquer the world on his own? 

What kind of feedback are sonic team looking at? 

As always, im just gonna sit back and quietly ride this ride out with hopes that forces will be decent but I worry a little for the future of the 3d games.

 

[Dannymax440]

49 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

...This interview is depressing... It really makes one question if we can ever have a competent Sonic Team game again.

If they listen to the right criticism... then there's hope.

Sonic Team's main problem is that they have little ideas on how to fully satisfy the fans about a Sonic game  due to the amount of experimenting with gameplay styles as well as polarizing  demands on "what makes a Sonic game".

[pppp]

For as much as people like to believe otherwise, Former SEGA employee Ben Andac's 2007 statements on how Sonic Team is forced to work on a franchise they're no longer passionate about just keeps gaining more credibility with each game they make.

Sonic Team needs to be completely revamped with nothing but new blood. Drastic problems require drastic measures.

[Guest]

This interview is laughable. And embarrassing. And insulting.

An actual acknowledgement that they could have used any other character and opted for classic Sonic is a bit of a slap in the face. So much so i think it's just an excuse. Anyone else get the feeling that the character creator was originally supposed to be Boom Sonic? I could see the gameplay fitting, and it would have been a more symmetric choice over 2 Sonics + 1 OC. And then Boom happened...

[KHCast]

2 hours ago, pppp said:

For as much as people like to believe otherwise, Former SEGA employee Ben Andac's 2007 statements on how Sonic Team is forced to work on a franchise they're no longer passionate about just keeps gaining more credibility with each game they make.

Sonic Team needs to be completely revamped with nothing but new blood. Drastic problems require drastic measures.

Are they on Konami levels of "not giving a shit?"

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

No, because they'd have to be pretry damn shady and blatantly hostile to developers, and even more inconsiderate to fans to reach Konami's level.

They sound more "meh" by comparison.

[Multikaris]

10 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

No, because they'd have to be pretry damn shady and blatantly hostile to developers, and even more inconsiderate to fans to reach Konami's level.

They sound more "meh" by comparison.

How far would they go to achieve Ubisoft levels, let alone Activision or EA? 

[Shiny Gems]

Well, my hype for this game is still strong, and the interview wasn't that bad, except for the part where he said he decided to pick Classic Sonic as a playable character. That said, let me show this.

That said, there had to be something better than just Classic Sonic. Why not another character or something? This is Hero forces vs Villain forces after all. There was no need for Classic Sonic to begin with. Now I really know how unnecessary he really was.

Still, my hype for this game is strong.

[Roger_van_der_weide]

Particularly this part has me raise an eyebrow.
" Another big problem they had was having to support a new console when the Switch version was announced in the middle of development. "

Sooo....learned nothing from Rise of Lyric about jumping blindly onto new systems halfway trough development then, did ya?
Well, alrighty then, as long as you don't sabotage the Ps4 and Xbone versions to help the Switch catch up...

Man, I wish they just did the SOnic Unleashed thing and made a custom version of the game for the Switch.
Then all versions worked optimally on each system, and they could even get double sales as many Sonic fans would want to play both sets of levels.
Or heck, a Secret Rings style game. Still think an Arcade style Sonic game could be great fun if it isn't crippled with Wii mote controls. Oh well.

Another thing I find fascinating about the interview is this bit:
"Later in the in the interview, it’s mentioned that Classic Sonic had a 2D viewpoint, and Modern Sonic had a viewpoint of going deep. "
So Modern Sonic is no longer referred to as being in 3d, but now has a "deep" viewpoint. Alright, points for being honest...Well, or at least not blatantly lying anymore.
 

[Waveshocker Sigma]

...So tl;dr

SONIC FORCES:

At least, that's what I feel like the entirety of the interview just tried to tell me and sell me on. That they made all of these wacky and crazy design choices for hardly any reason that they themselves can ever comprehend while somehow not being able to understand that their player base might just want the more simple approach that had been done before in the past that they're refusing to just go for them because of their own lack of self-confidence and fear of doing anything old that had potential and building upon it or anything new that might work, thus leading to an endless cycle of them making a game that isn't particularly bad but is still incredibly frustrating and infuriating due to burying itself in a pit of mediocrity by constantly getting almost everything wrong, which might as well make it a horrible game.

I mean, really? Are these guys really THAT clueless and out of touch? Are they just stupid or something? Or do they really just not care as long as it makes them a quick buck?

Huh. I see. With this interview, I think I finally get why people hate this game so much. It's like I just had an epiphany or something. This game really is just one giant colossal mess with a few neat things hidden inside.

I can definitely say this: I'm going to get this game. I'm going to play it. I'm going to enjoy it as much as I can in my own way. I'm still interested in the story, music and Infinite.

I will NOT, however, defend anything else about the way this game was made or anything else about it unless we see something new that's somehow a massive game changer or the game ends up being much better than most are expecting whenever it finally releases.

However, I don't see that happening or any future Sonic Team game being anything that can be considered respectable, high quality and worthwhile for any fans of the series when both the description of the creative process behind the games and the current situation of the series both manage to be summed up  as the following:

Hm...Well, Forces should turn out to be very interesting for the series one way or another. I'm still gonna like it, but I'm also going to remain disappointed and against everything it symbolizes about Modern Sonic.

Man, good thing Mania is coming. We need a 3D equivalent by a completely new team badly. I honestly don't want Sonic Team making anymore games are this.

Okay, I'm done mind dumping my thoughts on this. I doubt I'll have anything else to say about it until the next trailer. - -

[molul]

If they keep doing Modern Sonic games with this mindset, it's because it makes money, or at least enough money. If sales were really low, they'd at least consider a different approach. Or maybe they would bury Sonic, like they tried on mid-90's (after Sonic & Knuckles, they tried to make Ristar or Knuckles their next mascot because "Sonic formula was exhausted").

BTW, I'm amazed by that. So you have a really awesome videogame mascot, but you feel the formula is getting a bit old. And you try to change mascot? The company's symbol? The character that helped Sega to climb on Nintendo's shoulders? 

Back on topic: I don't think I'll actually like Sonic Forces. I won't dislike it, I might try it, but so far it doesn't look like the direction I want Sonic to go. Metacritic will be tough with the game, but I'm sure it will still sell well, no matter the quality of the game.

The only hope is that Sonic Mania sales makes Sega think about trying something different. But I will always think that Sonic, in 3D space, can't feel as good as in 2D. I tried Sonic Utopia. Great attempt, but still, getting rings is annoying. It's not as satisfying as 2D formula. 

[Marcello]

I have to laugh at some of you guys being bothered at them not thinking it would be believable if Eggman conquered the world alone. What in the last 26 years of Eggman having his ass easily handed to him made you think he could take over the world on his own? Even in the Archie comics, he's had armies assisting him.

[Diogenes]

6 hours ago, Marcello said:

I have to laugh at some of you guys being bothered at them not thinking it would be believable if Eggman conquered the world alone. What in the last 26 years of Eggman having his ass easily handed to him made you think he could take over the world on his own? Even in the Archie comics, he's had armies assisting him.

So then what would have more impact: Showing that, yes, he actually has taken over the world basically on his own, or that he did so by assembling a team of clowns to do a bunch of the work for him?

[ChikaBoing]

Personally, I am not sure why people act like they are surprised.

Here are some more quotes from this interview

Quote

For a lot of the other games in the whole history of Sonic the Hedgehog, when we didn't want to introduce playing as Knuckles or playing as Tails or some other character, we wanted to make it a new kind of gameplay experience to keep things fun and bring some variety so you're not just doing the same thing with a different looking character; we wanted it to feel like a different character. 

Quote

 In order to do so, we focused on high-speed running and we wanted to make sure your original character still has the feeling of Sonic and all of the fun that you get when you play as Sonic, while still giving them a Wispon so they get to still be a different character and have a different kind of gameplay style. It's kind of a merging of all the fun things of Sonic with the variety of a different character without going to the extreme of not having the Sonic elements or not having the variety. 

 

[Kuzu]

26 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

So then what would have more impact: Showing that, yes, he actually has taken over the world basically on his own, or that he did so by assembling a team of clowns to do a bunch of the work for him?

Their reasoning is that it wouldn't be "believable" though, not if it would have more impact.

6 hours ago, Marcello said:

I have to laugh at some of you guys being bothered at them not thinking it would be believable if Eggman conquered the world alone. What in the last 26 years of Eggman having his ass easily handed to him made you think he could take over the world on his own? Even in the Archie comics, he's had armies assisting him.

It just kind of undermines him really; it's essentially saying that Eggman isn't competent enough to beat Sonic with his own resources and has to have outside help to get it done. 

[Meta77]

*Looks around* call me crazy but I'm still excited and enjoyed the interview. Seemed they are more focused on Japan's reaction.

[Diogenes]

It's only not believable if the writers don't believe he can do it. Eggman's done more than enough world-endangering shit to justify him being able to take over the world.

[Marcello]

40 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

So then what would have more impact: Showing that, yes, he actually has taken over the world basically on his own, or that he did so by assembling a team of clowns to do a bunch of the work for him?

Did I miss some cool new clown characters being announced?

Neither has particularly more impact. Either way, Eggman won.

14 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It just kind of undermines him really; it's essentially saying that Eggman isn't competent enough to beat Sonic with his own resources and has to have outside help to get it done. 

 

I think we're way past that. 

Seriously, though. Archie Eggman seems way more competent and threatening that Game Eggman and he has a whole army backing him.

[Kuzu]

7 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It's only not believable if the writers don't believe he can do it. Eggman's done more than enough world-endangering shit to justify him being able to take over the world.

Well Sonic Team doesn't seem to agree with you lol.

So as far as they're concerned, he's just not a big time threat on his own.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

28 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It just kind of undermines him really; it's essentially saying that Eggman isn't competent enough to beat Sonic with his own resources and has to have outside help to get it done. 

Yeah, well, that's just it.

He isn't.

He never HAS been and never will be. Not in the game universe, anyways. That's always been entirely the point of his and Sonic's relationship.

Eggman sees himself as this colossal threat and massive genius and the entire rest of the world mostly see him as such as well. Meanwhile, Sonic sees him as nothing but a joke to poke fun at and kill time with when he's bored, outside of when he happens to have an occasional stroke of actual genius that leads to him being legitimately threatening, which is when he gets serious with him for a moment.

Game Eggman's not Archie Eggman, who is still goofy and silly but is also a complete psycho that has more than shown how ruthless and effective his methods can actually be and where Sonic, while not really trying to show it, pretty much only ever just barely beats him while brushing it off as a piece of cake once the good fight has been won for the moment.

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Marcello said:

I think we're way past that. 

Seriously, though. Archie Eggman seems way more competent and threatening that Game Eggman and he has a whole army backing him.

Well yea, obviously.

well Archie Eggman actually has taken over the world. Sonic & Co just take back a few areas from his control. Game Eggman hasn't actually conquered anything yet because hes stopped before hcan.,

1 minute ago, Waveshocker Sigma said:

Yeah, well, that's just it.

He isn't.

He never HAS been and never will be. Not in the game universe, anyways. That's always been entirely the point of his and Sonic's relationship.

Eggman sees himself as this colossal threat and massive genius and the entire rest of the world mostly see him as such as well. Meanwhile, Sonic sees him as nothing but a joke to poke fun at and kill time with when he's bored, outside of when he happens to have an occasional stroke of actual genius that leads to him being legitimately threatening, which is when he gets serious with him for a moment.

Game Eggman's not Archie Eggman, who is still goofy and silly but is also a complete psycho that has more than shown how ruthless and effective his methods can actually be and where Sonic, while not really trying to show it, pretty much only ever just barely beats him while bushing it off as a piece of cake once the good fight has been won for the moment.

I know that lol.

All I was saying is that it's going to be incredibly hard to sell me on Eggman being a credible villain now, because the developers essentially said he's never going to beat Sonic or even come close to doing so. And like you said, Sonic doesn't take him seriously either and treats him more as a nuisance. Its just a very one-sided relationship is all.

[Waveshocker Sigma]

4 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I know that lol.

All I was saying is that it's going to be incredibly hard to sell me on Eggman being a credible villain now, because the developers essentially said he's never going to beat Sonic or even come close to doing so. And like you said, Sonic doesn't take him seriously either and treats him more as a nuisance. Its just a very one-sided relationship is all.

Well, my point was mainly that Eggman was never meant to be a credible villain for Sonic himself from the game's perspective. Or rather, from the Japanese side of things, at the least. Game Eggman is pretty much an absolute titan of a villain to deal with as far as the majority of their world is concerned and even among Sonic's friends. It's just that Sonic himself doesn't take him seriously.

It's always been a one-sided relationship. Sonic is "too cool" to see Eggman as a credible threat and we're following him the whole time so, why should we?

That's pretty much the intent behind it, anyways. Sad for Eggy.

I don't mind it, but I vastly prefer the Archie approach.

[Detective Kaito]

At this point, all of this is just depressing. Either they're really stupid or they're lying. One thing for sure, Classic Sonic won't be returning to any more Main Series games after all the backlash he's gotten over the past year.