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Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

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1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I mean, he's gone on record of saying that he doesn't believe Eggman could take over the world without some help. So you know how he feels lol.

I still think this is perfectly reasonable.

I mean, from what we know so far the story behind Forces is that Sonic goes missing and then Eggman manages to take over. That's fine...except then I have to question "what about literally everyone else in the cast? Surely they could stop just Eggman on his own."

Anyway, while there are some disappointing tidbits--like, only 4 new Zones? I'm someone who's actually 100% okay with them reusing pre-existing locations but I was hoping for 6 new ones at minimum since that was the average number of zones in the classic games. But all that aside, the game still sounds up my alley. Can't wait to play it myself!

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Knuckles' story could potentially start to divert more from Sonic's in Mirage Saloon, after he's being thrown off the Tornado. Why else would they do that? To make him look bad?...Maybe. But he did have a different starting point from Sonic in the Mirage Saloon demo, so he could fight the Heavy and then rejoin Sonic and Tails in the ending. I wish Tails would get a similar treatment for once and have his own storyline instead of him imagining to be Sonic.

In other news, will SonAmy shippers all game over at Metallic Madness Act 2? I love how the Amy Dolls act like she does in CD, standing around like a cutie and trying to hug Sonic when he comes closer...and, yeah, well, explode.

 

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Ended up spoiling myself. Very happy that Lava Reef and Hydrocity are in, kinda dissapointed with Oil Ocean and Metallic Madness.

 

Can't see the whole stream since my Internet connexion is crappy, but from what I've seen:

-Metal Sonic's boss fight is dissapointing. What was even that last part with the wall? :/

-Can't say I'm a fan of Sonic CD but final boss looks incredibly fun.

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1 hour ago, Alienrun said:

Why on earth would he not? They already confirmed that some layouts/paths are slightly different. If anything it could be just like sonic's but with a 1 or 2 zone difference and maybe a boss change here or there. It would be more weird if they gave him no differences...

During some previews, both Knuckles and Sonic/Tails were shown to start in different parts of Mirage Saloon. So I definitely believe there are some significant differences.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Mechano said:

So far in-game they've been working for Eggman; In the regular final battle Eggman even teleports you to boss arenas to fight them. 

So if there's a betrayal in the game, it won't happen until the very final good-ending battle, which honestly feels kinda shoehorned in. I can't think of anything that a betrayal "twist" would add to the game, especially if implemented at the last minute out of absolutely nowhere.

Blame Iizuka, that's the motto for anything wrong with the franchise to me.

Second only to SEGA-Sense.

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Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Blame Iizuka, that's the motto for anything wrong with the franchise to me.

I seriously feel like Izuka just legitimately dislikes Eggman as a character.

In addition to always replacing him with other villains, he also infamously was behind the game that had the poor guy get murder-slapped by Shadow in three different endings.

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Just now, Dr. Mechano said:

I seriously feel like Izuka just legitimately dislikes Eggman as a character.

In addition to always replacing him with other villains, he also infamously was behind the game that had the poor guy get murder-slapped by Shadow in three different endings.

Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 were Iizuka's babies back in the day and were the games that really rooted the

"Eggman is an incapable moron waiting to be upstaged"

philosophy into the franchise. Ever since then he's always upstaged. Always betrayed. Always the gullible laughingstock who can't keep a leash on anything.

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2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 were Iizuka's babies back in the day and were the games that really rooted the

"Eggman is an incapable moron waiting to be upstaged"

philosophy into the franchise. Ever since then he's always upstaged. Always betrayed. Always the gullible laughingstock who can't keep a leash on anything.

I mean, in all fairness, Eggman was playable in SA2 and was generally awesome in that game. No joke, SA2 is one of my favorite Eggman appearances, and is proof positive that he can still be written as capable and competent even if he isn't the final villain of the story. Plus we got to see some of his outright heroic side, which was neat!

So it's a bit out of the norm for Izuka's usual portrayal of the character.

2 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

Eh? Eggman was the final villain in Colours, Generations and Lost World. Those are the latest three main games Iizuka has had involvement with. 

Was he behind the stories to those games though, or did he outsource the writing to Pontac and Graff for those?

I know he was personally behind the story direction of those earlier titles, but not sure about the later ones.

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Was he behind the stories to those games though, or did he outsource the writing to Pontac and Graff for those?

I know he was personally behind the story direction of those earlier titles, but not sure about the later ones.

The former two were all Sonic Team and they just localised, the latter had the bones of the game laid out by Sonic Team and then left to flesh out by the Pontaff team. So he was behind all three stories. 

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I mean sure I love Eggman as much as everybody else. But asking for Eggman to be the main villain EVERY time? How do you do that without running stale if it always ends the same way.

Eggman does something, Sonic shows up and fucks his shit up and then he rides off to the sunset. 

How do you get past "Eggman builds a giant thingamajig that will make him rule the world"? Eggman builds ANOTHER giant thingamajig that will let him rule the world? Eggman does something evil to enslave the world and build Eggmanland?

I don't justify or condone the Monster of the Week and Eggman upstaging format, but it's functional to a degree.

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Just now, VEDJ-F said:

The former two were all Sonic Team and they just localised, the latter had the bones of the game laid out by Sonic Team and then left to flesh out by the Pontaff team. So he was behind all three stories. 

Huh, well then.

I guess it's pretty up in the air how he'll handle him in Forces, or what his influence on Mania was.

...Though again, given his portrayal in the Shadow game (Eggman's worst appearance ever in my opinion), I'm still not quite ready to be totally optimistic about his handling of the character yet.

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From how I understand it SEGA lays out the basic story beats and the writers simply do the script. I think they had some extra creative control in regard to Lost World, but it's worth noting that even in a game that placed more emphasis on the new villains, Eggman ended up shoehorned in as the final boss anyway.

Frankly I think we've moved on from the days where Eggman is full on upstaged. I'm not even expecting it in Forces--it could go either way, but I'm willing to bet that Infinite's gonna be the Avatar's final boss while the Sonics fight Eggman.

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Just now, Faber-Of-Wisps-And-Might said:

I mean sure I love Eggman as much as everybody else. But asking for Eggman to be the main villain EVERY time? How do you do that without running stale if it always ends the same way.

Nah, he doesn't have to.

Like I said, I love SA2. He was playable and was one of the major important characters in that game, despite not being the final boss.

Advance 3 also made him playable, which was cool.

Games like Tails Adventure and Sky Patrol just had other villains altogether instead of Eggman getting betrayed by his lackeys, so that was fine too. 

I probably would've been alright with the Deadly 6 even if they did turn out to be the final boss because at least they had personalities, as opposed to typical modern Sonic villains, who are just super grim and glum. But he ended up being the final boss of that game anyway, so whatever.

I'm not opposed to non-Eggman villains at all, but most of the time that doesn't go well in my opinion.

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Huh, well then.

I guess it's pretty up in the air how he'll handle him in Forces, or what his influence on Mania was.

...Though again, given his portrayal in the Shadow game (Eggman's worst appearance ever in my opinion), I'm still not quite ready to be totally optimistic about his handling of the character yet.

I guess at least this goes to show how dumb and misleading the whole "blame Iizuka for everything wrong" mentality is, at least.

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1 minute ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

I guess at least this goes to show how dumb and misleading the whole "blame Iizuka for everything wrong" mentality is, at least.

He still had Eggman killed in a pretty undignified manner (three times!) in Shadow's game, so I'll need more time and good decisions from him to make up for that debacle.

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

He still had Eggman killed in a pretty undignified manner (three times!) in Shadow's game, so I'll need more time to forgive him for that whole debacle.

You mean killed in a hilarious manner. Karate chop! Scrambled eggs tonight.

Also good news everyone! Mania PC is delayed to the 29th. Every other version is still on the 15th.

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Just now, Dr. Mechano said:

He still had Eggman killed in a pretty undignified manner (three times!) in Shadow's game, so I'll need more time to forgive him for that whole debacle.

One game, but I'll give you that.  He still did revive the franchise to great lengths after 06 took a sledgehammer to it, and for that I'm thankful. Regardless though, it's never really the smart or logical conclusion to pin everything on Iizuka in the stance of things (course that's probably also extending to differing opinions in how each person regards Forces and Mania).

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I'm with @Dr. Mechano.

Iizuka has a lot of work to do in order to restore Eggman to his full potential. Even when given the spotlight they make him near impossible to take seriously, to see as a threat. His dialogue in the game leaves a lot to be desired even when he's the main focus and/or final boss.

I mainly say blame Iizuka because of what he did to Episode 2 of Sonic 4 with the Sonic and Tails stuff he wanted put in, as well as wanting the Mania team to focus on old stages over new, Shadow the Hedgehog as a whole, and in his chair, he's able to control the franchise as a general whole putting him responsible for the terrible demographic focus from Colors until now that ruined the plots and characters alike as well as general locations in the series.

I will say that despite its faults Mania, and even Forces in some ways, is a good first step, but only one of MANY that he owes us to make up for all he has done until now. We can also blame him for what happened to BOOM considering we didn't see him nor' Sonic Team as a whole helping out when it was clearly needed and they obviously knew. That might be stretching it, but again, in his chair, I do hold him accountable.

You could say it was SEGA's idea for Mania to focus on old stages, but he DOES have power to testify against that, which is why I hold him accountable for Mania too.

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2 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

You mean killed in a hilarious manner. Karate chop! Scrambled eggs tonight.

Nah, I think killing Eggman is like killing Bowser. He's too likable for it come across as anything other than weirdly edgy and forced.

...Though "weirdly edgy and forced" could easily describe Shadow's entire game, so I guess joke's on me.

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3 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Nah, I think killing Eggman is like killing Bowser. He's too likable for it come across as anything other than weirdly edgy and forced.

...Though "weirdly edgy and forced" could easily describe Shadow's entire game, so I guess joke's on me.

They did kill Bowser, though; in New Super Mario Bros. DS. He came back as Dry Bowser.

It was more "well... that happened" than an actual story thing, though.

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3 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'm with @Dr. Mechano.

Iizuka has a lot of work to do in order to restore Eggman to his full potential. Even when given the spotlight they make him near impossible to take seriously, to see as a threat. His dialogue in the game leaves a lot to be desired even when he's the main focus and/or final boss.

I might not totally agree, as I think Eggman's funny dialogue is part of why I love the character so much.

But I feel like the best portrayals of Eggman know how to balance his comical whimsy with the fact that he's still a diabolical evil genius. They know how to make him both funny and legitimately threatening at the same time - and, if they're really up to it, sprinkle in a bit of humanizing qualities to really complete the whole thing.

SA2 amazingly hits all of these points despite him not being the final boss, which again shows that I think the character can still be legitimately engaging outside of the main antagonist role.

With that said, despite having no dialogue, Mania is hitting these notes so far too; Eggman's hilarious in this game, but (appears to be) in control of everything and is busting out some truly intimidating boss mechs. I just hope he keeps his final boss status!

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