Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

[Celestia]

I think it's really cute how they tied these games together. I guess it helps that I don't think Forces is gonna be the worst thing ever. That said, regardless of whether or not Forces does a good job following up on this, I can understand finding this ending underwhelming on it's own.

17 minutes ago, AuroraRedwinters said:

I guess that also means no Hyper Tails/Knuckles in this then?

I'm not seeing the correlation here? What does ending have to do with that? If anything SEGA not considering those canon alone makes it unlikely we'll see Super Tails / Hyper Knuckles, but I wouldn't be surprised if they snuck 'em in there as secrets.

Speaking of which...I wonder if this game has debug mode and the like. Now that's something this game needs or it won't feel like a true successor to me >:U

13 minutes ago, Sonicfan287 said:

That's a bit harsh but it's true in a way... I think Mania was fine as a standalone project but it was Iizuka and Sonic Team who insisted the game have more rehashed levels, most likely so they could make a time travel plot out of it that would tie into Forces and classic Sonic being in the game which was an arbitrary decision to begin with, and has now been used as the official ending to this game. It doesn't make Mania any less great to me, it just would've been nice to see this be its own game and not just a tie in to another game. 

The way I see it, we got a longer game out of it. I know people consider returning zones a bad thing even in Mania, with it only getting a semi-pass cuz they did some cool stuff with it, but it's something I've wanted the series to do more of anyway (not the whole "more old zones than new ones" part but eh, I can deal).

[Zippo]

Guessing this means no classic Tails, Knuckles or Eggman in Forces. I didn't expect them to be there but that is still pretty lame.

 

[Sonicfan287]

2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

 

The way I see it, we got a longer game out of it. I know people consider the returning zones a bad thing even in Mania, with it only getting a semi-pass cuz they did some cool stuff with it, but it's something I've wanted the series to do more of anyway (not the whole "more old zones than new ones" part but eh, I can deal).

I don't think it's a bad thing, I just don't know how necessary it was or why SEGA thinks we LOVE playing their games from 20+ years ago again and again and again... ironically, they picked most of my favorite all time stages including Flying Battery Zone, my favorite of the classics, so their stage selection was right on point (even though Metallic Madness and Titanic Monarch feel redundant being back to back at the end). I just feel like Christian and his team wanted to make a new game and had Studiopolis and a few other zones in mind but instead of letting them expand on it, Sonic Team's attitude was "oh great, we'll throw those new ideas in but let's focus on more remasters" 

[Chris Knopps]

3 minutes ago, Sonicfan287 said:

I don't think it's a bad thing, I just don't know how necessary it was or why SEGA thinks we LOVE playing their games from 20+ years ago again and again and again... ironically, they picked most of my favorite all time stages including Flying Battery Zone, my favorite of the classics, so their stage selection was right on point (even though Metallic Madness and Titanic Monarch feel redundant being back to back at the end). I just feel like Christian and his team wanted to make a new game and had Studiopolis and a few other zones in mind but instead of letting them expand on it, Sonic Team's attitude was "oh great, we'll throw those new ideas in but let's focus on more remasters" 

It's a battle of the seniors vs the next generation. Old vs new.

One side clings to the past.

The other is ready to move on.

If nothing else, the future will be a fun ride.

[Sonicfan287]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

It's a battle of the seniors vs the next generation. Old vs new.

One side clings to the past.

The other is ready to move on.

If nothing else, the future will be a fun ride.

Well now that I think about it, wasn't their original idea for the 25th anniversary to remaster all the old games or something to that degree?? And then Iizuka said "no, let's make a new game instead" which turned out to be Mania, which still uses that idea of remastering the old games, just in a roundabout way?

[AuroraRedwinters]

Honestly, it cheapens the ending to what otherwise looks like a fantastic game overall. There really doesn't seem to be anything too special about the "good" ending. Instead it comes across more like a "To be continued.... in Sonic Forces!"

If they wanted to tie in Sonic Forces, I wish they would take the route of making a quick animated bonus scene and make it an easter egg or something, but keeping it separate from the Sonic Mania storyline/game itself. Just my opinion on it!

And with regards to my Hyper Tails/Knuckles question - I wonder what the payoff is for someone that earns all the emeralds playing solo as those characters. Do they also get to go to this special zone? Or what variation do they get with the "good" ending scene? I am curious!

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Sonicfan287 said:

Well now that I think about it, wasn't their original idea for the 25th anniversary to remaster all the old games or something to that degree?? And then Iizuka said "no, let's make a new game instead" which turned out to be Mania, which still uses that idea of remastering the old games, just in a roundabout way?

It's a complicated issue between Iizuka and the rest of SEGA.

Both are hard to read and both are at odds with one another but one common ground they have is sticking to things from the past.

What they stick to is different though.

With Iizuka it's stuff like Death Egg's and Egg Pawns.

With SEGA it's Green Hill and Classic.

Granted Iizuka can and has been willing to move on, he lacks the backbone to challenge SEGA's whims.

I'd like to see Nintendo telling Miyamoto what to do. That don't fly. It should be the same with Iizuka.

[Sonicfan287]

2 minutes ago, AuroraRedwinters said:

Honestly, it cheapens the ending to what otherwise looks like a fantastic game overall. There really doesn't seem to be anything too special about the "good" ending. Instead it comes across more like a "To be continued.... in Sonic Forces!"

If they wanted to tie in Sonic Forces, I wish they would take the route of making a quick animated bonus scene and make it an easter egg or something, but keeping it separate from the Sonic Mania storyline/game itself. Just my opinion on it!

And with regards to my Hyper Tails/Knuckles question - I wonder what the payoff is for someone that earns all the emeralds playing solo as those characters. Do they also get to go to this special zone? Or what variation do they get with the "good" ending scene? I am curious!

I feel like there has to be something... I'm hoping the Tails/Knuckles versions of the game aren't just carbon copies of Sonic and offer something new, even if it's different zone order or something, and maybe when you get all 7 emeralds as each character, you get something special. I feel like there's still more content to be found in this game, between that and the blue spheres coins, there are probably extra modes or maybe even hidden levels in there somewhere

[Blue Wisp]

I wonder if after Sonic Mania releases, Sonic Forces's intro is revealed which shows if the game follows Mania or not.

It'd make sense from a marketing view.

Overall, I have to say from what I've seen, I like Mania. It was overhyped and maybe it didn't reach everyone's expectations, but from what I've seen (which is... Oil Ocean until Titanic Monarch 1) I like what I see. Going to leave the rest as something I will experience hands-on even if I know what will happen. 

But where the fuck are my stage transitions SEGA that will be the one thing I will criticize you. Where's my fucking stage transitions.

WHERE'S THE FUCKING RING TAILS.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Faber-Of-Wisps-And-Might said:

I wonder if after Sonic Mania releases, Sonic Forces's intro is revealed which shows if the game follows Mania or not.

It'd make sense from a marketing view.

With all this delaying I think the marketing for Forces is going to be as messy as its plot.

We'll have to wait and see, if anything Pokemon gives Forces hope.

[Blue Wisp]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

With all this delaying I think the marketing for Forces is going to be as messy as its plot.

We'll have to wait and see, if anything Pokemon gives Forces hope.

What plot? We only know Eggman takes over with Zavok, Chaos, Shadow, Metal Sonic and Infinite and Sonic disappears for a while before the game.

I'm not saying you can't criticize the game, first impressions are something that can sell or break a game. But saying it's messy after only seeing two zones and a boss sounds premature to me.

EDIT: 

I love seeing /v/ reactions. 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Faber-Of-Wisps-And-Might said:

What plot? We only know Eggman takes over with Zavok, Chaos, Shadow, Metal Sonic and Infinite and Sonic disappears for a while before the game.

I'm not saying you can't criticize the game, first impressions are something that can sell or break a game. But saying it's messy after only seeing two zones and a boss sounds premature to me.

Considering we're doing another time/space kind of plot and the game is bringing this and that from here and there...

I feel like Forces is doing what the Archie re-boot attempted in its own strange way.

I just don't see it working. You need something on the level of Shadow to really explain what's going on with time travel stuff in this franchise otherwise you're just rushing a ton of stuff together, this and that happens, and if you blink you miss what you needed to see.

I'm just not too comfortable knowing what Forces is pushing for given how they've adjusted to tiny plots with no meat until now ever since Colors.

I mean, Generations did okay but in a nonsensical "amnesia" type of manner where everyone just said hi, thanks, and "what's that place?" and "you look weird" basically.

I'm bracing for the worst and thinking about the best I'll likely miss out on once again.

The only time I can comfortably say some form of time travel and/or dimension travel worked in this franchise was Black Knight.

[Blue Wisp]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

The only time I can comfortably say some form of time travel and/or dimension travel worked in this franchise was Black Knight.

I'd add Sonic CD to the list. But otherwise yes, time travel is a shitty plot object and should NOT be used because it's really easy to misuse it. It never works 95% of the time. It's my most disliked gimmick from all time.

Sonic and the Black Knight was a good game with a great story that was driven back by that godforsaken control scheme and on-rails element. With a normal control scheme, pretty sure people would've liked it even if the concept of Sonic with a sword sounds ridiculous. Eh. I'm biased cause Black Knight is one of my favourite games but Nintendo really should STOP. PUSHING. MOTION CONTROLS. 

GOD.

FUCKING MOTION CONTROLS. Ruined Sonic Free Riders with that fucking motion control push. You just had to give Sonic Free Riders some joystick support with optional Kinect and it'd be fucking fine but god damn it SEGA why don't you want me to love your games. 

 

[DiamondX]

>Sonic Mania's good ending sends Classic Sonic to Forces

 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Faber-Of-Wisps-And-Might said:

I'd add Sonic CD to the list. But otherwise yes, time travel is a shitty plot object and should NOT be used because it's really easy to misuse it. It never works 95% of the time. It's my most disliked gimmick from all time.

Sonic and the Black Knight was a good game with a great story that was driven back by that godforsaken control scheme and on-rails element. With a normal control scheme, pretty sure people would've liked it even if the concept of Sonic with a sword sounds ridiculous. Eh. I'm biased cause Black Knight is one of my favourite games but Nintendo really should STOP. PUSHING. MOTION CONTROLS. 

GOD.

FUCKING MOTION CONTROLS. Ruined Sonic Free Riders with that fucking motion control push. You just had to give Sonic Free Riders some joystick support with optional Kinect and it'd be fucking fine but god damn it SEGA why don't you want me to love your games. 

 

I've mentioned this before but SEGA is highly prone to shiny keys dangled before them.

Like a child to a new toy. If it looks neat, they jump the gun, never learning their lesson.

[Blue Wisp]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

I've mentioned this before but SEGA is highly prone to shiny keys dangled before them.

Like a child to a new toy. If it looks neat, they jump the gun, never learning their lesson.

Personally I'd blame Nintendo for what happened with Secret Rings and Black Knight. Nintendo REAAAAAALLY wanted to push motion controls as the future back when the Wii was happening. It's the same reason they pushed the gyroscope so hard with the 3DS. Gotta have a gimmick.

With Sonic Free Riders yeah I'm sure that's SEGA fuckup. Microsoft probably said "gotta have that kinect tho" and SEGA understood only kinect because fucking SEGA can't use common sense. 

[JosepHenry]

Now we wait for the medals and full completion of the game (That's definitely not going to be leaked by that guy)

Spoiler

AMY OR RIOT

Maybe there is a secret scene of Sonic going in Forces?

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Faber-Of-Wisps-And-Might said:

Personally I'd blame Nintendo for what happened with Secret Rings and Black Knight. Nintendo REAAAAAALLY wanted to push motion controls as the future back when the Wii was happening. It's the same reason they pushed the gyroscope so hard with the 3DS. Gotta have a gimmick.

With Sonic Free Riders yeah I'm sure that's SEGA fuckup. Microsoft probably said "gotta have that kinect tho" and SEGA understood only kinect because fucking SEGA can't use common sense. 

I think SEGA's biggest blunder ever, their worst "shiny key" moment, was the Wii U.

They jumped the gun so fast with that exclusive deal I think they're STILL spinning from how hard they got jack slapped when the thing bombed.

[Blue Wisp]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

I think SEGA's biggest blunder ever, their worst "shiny key" moment, was the Wii U.

They jumped the gun so fast with that exclusive deal I think they're STILL spinning from how hard they got jack slapped when the thing bombed.

The three exclusive Sonic games news was the only reason I initially got my Wii U. 

Ended up liking the system even if it had practically no support but...

Well.

I think you can imagine how I felt after seeing those three exclusive Sonic games.

Yeah... I fucked up. 

That's the reason I haven't gotten a Switch yet. I'm waiting.  

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Faber-Of-Wisps-And-Might said:

The three exclusive Sonic games news was the only reason I initially got my Wii U. 

Ended up liking the system even if it had practically no support but...

Well.

I think you can imagine how I felt after seeing those three exclusive Sonic games.

Yeah... I fucked up. 

That's the reason I haven't gotten a Switch yet. I'm waiting.  

I got mine for a Zelda game I wound up getting on Switch

Three new Sonic titles I ended up caring nothing for with one being nothing short of Mario's World with a Sonic skin with the others bro-fisting Mario cast in Olympics.

(I mean... Rise of Lyric too but lets not sing that song...)

And...

Pokken...

It was a very meh to annoying experience overall with the Wii U...

Was glad to have Wind Waker and Twilight Princess remakes though, even if the later remake sucked compared to the former.

[Blue Wisp]

All I want is for a few more games to come out on the Switch and then I'll pick it up a year or two from now. 

And that Lava Reef Act 1 theme.

Oh my god that remix is pure sex. 

Tee Lopes can have my bald bearded fat babies. 

[Chris Knopps]

2 minutes ago, Faber-Of-Wisps-And-Might said:

All I want is for a few more games to come out on the Switch and then I'll pick it up a year or two from now. 

And that Lava Reef Act 1 theme.

Oh my god that remix is pure sex. 

Tee Lopes can have my bald bearded fat babies. 

Whatever creatures that would come out of my danglers, he can have em' too.

(They're expensive nowadays so it'd be a favor!)

...Ahem...

YEAH MANIA!!! WOOT WOOT!!!

[Celestia]

What does any of this have to do with Mani--oh you're already back on topic. Hm.

Secondly,

1 hour ago, Chris Knopps said:

Yep, looks like Iizuka ruined the plot.

Should've known Sonic Team would be desperate enough to make a colossal side project to "help" sell "their" game by using "fans" to make a "prequel" to "their" game.

I legitimately feel sorry for Whitehead Team now that it's pretty obvious they were used just for this.

The title is still absolutely perfect, don't get me wrong. But now that this is known, yeah. They were used, in many good ways, but also one terrible way.

They suck, so they got people that don't suck to make a game that doesn't suck for their game that will suck.

SEGA-Sense shines, always has and always will.

 

I think staff has spoken to you about this before, but while I understand SEGA makes odd decisions, the whole East VS West narrative you throw around is tiresome, especially the way you go about it. If that's how you think things went on behind the scenes, fine, but you're definitely going to get on peoples' nerves like this. If you keep it up we'll have to strike you, and since you've received one already you'll get a suspension, so please keep that in mind.

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's just going to amount to Eggman bringing in the villains (aside from maybe Metal...?) using Infinite's power and that's that. Though one way I could see time travel implemented is if it's something akin to what they considered for Sonic 2. But I kinda get the impression Infinite's power really is more about like, dimensions, so I could see the villains being pulled in from other universes or something? I don't know, they've revealed so little that it could be anything, really.

[Zippo]

Someone on Neogaf claims they have 100% Mania in two days.

[Blue Wisp]

32 minutes ago, Celestia said:

What does any of this have to do with Mani--oh you're already back on topic. Hm.

?

 

Quote

Anyway, I'm pretty sure it's just going to amount to Eggman bringing in the villains (aside from maybe Metal...?) using Infinite's power and that's that. Though one way I could see time travel implemented is if it's something akin to what they considered for Sonic 2. But I kinda get the impression Infinite's power really is more about like, dimensions, so I could see the villains being pulled in from other universes or something? I don't know, they've revealed so little that it could be anything, really.

Problem is, how does the gem end up being Infinite if that's what happens? Actually does the gem end up in that void with Sonic at the end cutscene? Didn't watch it, don't want to watch it, but I only got the general gist of the scene. If not, how does the gem end up in Sonic Forces' dimension? Is this a multiversal object thing or is it a multiversal singularity where one thing exists across dimensions but is only one object?

So many questions. I love that. But I would like some closure instead of "Eggman came across a gem and fucks shit up". It makes me think of Metal Sonic's purple powerup thingamajig from Episode Metal. It came out of nowhere. 

EDIT: God Lava Reef Act 1's theme is soooooooooooo good man I thought nothing would top Mirage Saloon 2 for me but somehow it got upped. Fucking amazing Tee Lopes if you're reading. You're a god. And you too Falk. 

And I still haven't heard from Green Hill to Oil Ocean now that I think of it. 

EDIT 2: Credit to a 4channer.