Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

[Kuzu]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

 

 

But ultimately what's the point in dividing them if they experienced the same shit. It seems completely arbitrary compared to just pulling time travel again 

Cuz "lol Sonic Team".

[JosepHenry]

We need the official Mobius Historia timeline lol we are having the same questions that Zelda fans had before the book.

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, サイヤ人の王子 said:

We're all nerds,  but there comes a time where you have to accept that this series's continuity is an absolute clusterfuck, lol.

It is, yes.

This is the result of fans caring about continuity way more than Sonic Team does.

[MainJP]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I did say it's possible they retconned it.

It could be the case, but I hope not. Doesn't seem necessary.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I did say it's possible they retconned it.

I believe the world of Sonic works like this.

Humans dominate the "mainlands" of the world, the "major continents" if you will.

Anthro creatures like Sonic are delegated to the small islands all over the world.

Them darn humans, taking up the big spaces!

[MudHunter]

1 minute ago, KHCast said:

 

 

But ultimately what's the point in dividing them if they experienced the same shit. It seems completely arbitrary compared to just pulling time travel again 

Dunno if that's what they were aiming for, but doing this could make the future Classic games more original/unrestricted since Mania Sonic isn't tied with Modern Sonic's future

So essentially creating an official "Classic" branch like Boom

[KHCast]

Just now, MudHunter said:

Dunno if that's what they were aiming for, but doing this could make the future Classic games more original/unrestricted since Mania Sonic isn't tied with Modern Sonic's future

So essentially creating an official "Classic" branch like Boom

Well, idk still, they could have simply done the classic formula without the need to bring Classic back imo if they really wanted to make 2D sprite games with original stories. They also could, if they wanted Classic looking Sonic back,  just have them take place in Gens classic timeline since his story essentially has been altered 

[superman43]

What if... Infinite is just the "Avatar" controlled by Eggman with the power of the purple gem ? Could make sense.

[Shasonsil]

So this isn't even a true sequel to S3&K?

 

...lovely...

[superman43]

Anyway the Mania resembles to me more than anything Sonic Time Twisted... both being made by fans, both having properties from Sonic 3K...

But... Mania has 4 new zones and 8 remade old ones... and Time Twisted has 8+1 zones "original"... both seem to have something with another dimensions etc. 

Anyone´s guess ?

[KHCast]

Also, if we don't get a point in forces where Modern is sent into Mania Sonic's universe  and they go to Studiopolis, imma riot. That level recreated in 3D would be so neat I won't lie 

1 minute ago, Shasonsil said:

So this isn't even a true sequel to S3&K?

 

...lovely...

That still goes to Sonic 4-*shot*

[Chris Knopps]

9 minutes ago, Shasonsil said:

So this isn't even a true sequel to S3&K?

 

...lovely...

I think it was, then at some point, it no longer was, which is why as I mentioned the ending animation is so bad compared to the intro.

[KHCast]

1 minute ago, Chris Knopps said:

I think it was, then at some point, it no longer was, which is why as I mentioned the ending animation is so bad compared to the intro.

Wonder if the ending was mandated by Sega vs artistically determined 

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, KHCast said:

Wonder if the ending was mandated by Sega vs artistically determined 

I'm not really sure, just throwing guesses on this one, but there has to be some reason for the ending being the quality it is.

[Nintendoga]

The concept of connecting a classic game to a modern game is interesting, but here it feels eh. Like every other classic games' good ending is "You stopped Eggman once and for all, Sonic and his friends saved the day!" Here its like "You stopped Eggman once and for all, Sonic is lost in time and space whoops. To be continued." Ironically, couldn't the bad ending be considered more of a good ending?

I don't blame Mania or its devs for this, since its clearly just a marketing gimmick that Sega told them to do.  It hurts the game's ending but the rest of Mania is still solid and can stand on its own without being known only as "Forces' prequel."

[Sonicfan287]

I have to say, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the forces reference at the end of this game is going to go over a lot of peoples heads. I mean, yeah, we know and understand that because as Sonic fans we follow all of Sonic Team's latest endeavors but I have a lot of friends who are casual gamers or have played maybe one Sonic game before and they're curious to check out Mania. They're going to have NO CLUE as to why Sonic is sucked into a purple vortex at the end of the game. I wouldn't either unless I knew what Forces was. 

The way I always saw this game, it was dedicated to the hardcore fans but could also be a way to introduce people to the series -- maybe younger fans who had never played the classics or just gamers in general who weren't super familiar with Sonic. It was a good entry level in that it features so many of the best levels with upgrades and new levels and a pretty straightforward story that you don't have to know anything about to get into. 

This ending is going to make those people scratch their heads and say "Why did Sonic just go bye bye?" at the end of the game... As much as I don't really care about the tie in to Forces, this seemed like it could've easily been one of those games where it's a "Sonic beats Robotnik and everyone goes home happy" kind of ending. Maybe have a Forces teaser after the credits done in a subtle way so that the more hard core fans go "Oh shi--" but now it's just so obvious the story was building up to this which is a referene only SOME will even get. 

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Nintendoga said:

The concept of connecting a classic game to a modern game is interesting, but here it feels eh. Like every other classic games' good ending is "You stopped Eggman once and for all, Sonic and his friends saved the day!" Here its like "You stopped Eggman once and for all, Sonic is lost in time and space whoops. To be continued." Ironically, couldn't the bad ending be considered more of a good ending?

I don't blame Mania or its devs for this, since its clearly just a marketing gimmick that Sega told them to do.  It hurts the game's ending but the rest of Mania is still solid and can stand on its own without being known only as "Forces' prequel."

We hope.

Watch critics and consumers react the opposite way and bawl over it more than anyone else while using it to underscore the title.

[KHCast]

"Forces looks so bad and like a cluserfuck, at least I have Mania and don't need to think of that anymore"

Sega: *chuckles *

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, KHCast said:

"Forces looks so bad and like a cluserfuck, at least I have Mania and don't need to think of that anymore"

Sega: *chuckles *

Okay now that comment is just pure evil...

[McGroose]

So, for everything saying that Mania and Forces are clearly connected, let's think carefully about what that implies.

If Sonic Mania is a direct prequel to Forces that explains how Classic Sonic ended up in Modern Sonic's time, That means that Forces is going to have to show how Classic Sonic gets teleported to the universe where Eggman rules, either via a CGI cutscene or an ingame cutscene. Sega isn't good at storytelling in Sonic (Honestly, give me one example and I'll argue against it), but even they wouldn't just slap a card saying "play Mania first" then just show Sonic dropping in Green Sand Hill zone. Give as much shit to Iizuka as you want, but he and anyone with common sense would know that's a terrible idea.

So one scenario that's possible is that Forces will begin by recreating the ending of Mania, and I mean the entire ending. They can't just show Classic Sonic going through a portal, because people who play Forces only will not understand what happened, and Classic Sonic can't talk to anyone to explain what happened. We need to know how he got in the portal. But if we see how that happens, then the ending of Mania is spoiled at the beginning of the Forces. Not to mention that Forces story was likely finalized before Mania was even approved of by Sega.

Or the more likely alternative is that Forces and Mania are not connected whatsoever and the ending of Mania being suspiciously ambiguous is pure coincidence. 

Mania and Forces were heavily advertised as two completely separate games and I believe this applies to the stories as well. If there is SOME kind of connection, it'll be that the mystery emerald discovered is used again in Forces somehow, but nothing else, which is totally possible. Modern Eggman could somehow get his hands on this emerald and cause all sorts of havoc. 

Mania Sonic might be the one in Forces, but I doubt he went to Forces immediately in Mania's ending. My theory is that Modern Eggman messes with Mania Sonic's time well after his battle with Classic Eggman and the final HBH in the purple void.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, McGroose said:

So, for everything saying that Mania and Forces are clearly connected, let's think carefully about what that implies.

If Sonic Mania is a direct prequel to Forces that explains how Classic Sonic ended up in Modern Sonic's time, That means that Forces is going to have to show how Classic Sonic gets teleported to the universe where Eggman rules, either via a CGI cutscene or an ingame cutscene. Sega isn't good at storytelling in Sonic (Honestly, give me one example and I'll argue against it), but even they wouldn't just slap a card saying "play Mania first" then just show Sonic dropping in Green Sand Hill zone. Give as much shit to Iizuka as you want, but he and anyone with common sense would know that's a terrible idea.

So one scenario that's going possible is that Forces will begin by recreating the ending of Mania, and I mean the entire ending. They can't just show Classic Sonic going through a portal, because people who play Forces only will not understand what happened, and Classic Sonic can't talk to anyone to explain what happened. We need to know how he got in the portal. But if we see how that happens, then the ending of Mania is spoiled at the beginning of the Forces.

Or the more likely alternative is that Forces and Mania are not connected whatsoever and the ending of Mania being suspiciously ambiguous is pure coincidence. 

Mania and Forces were heavily advertised as two completely separate games and I believe this applies to the stories as well. If there is SOME kind of connection, it'll be that the mystery emerald discovered is used again in Forces somehow, but nothing else, which is totally possible. Modern Eggman could somehow get his hands on this emerald and cause all sorts of havoc. 

Mania Sonic might be the one in Forces, but I doubt he went to Forces immediately in Mania's ending. My theory is that Modern Eggman messes with Mania Sonic's time well after his battle with Eggman and the final HBH in the purple void.

I really don't think they're going to put anywhere near that much effort into properly telling/explaining their plot.

That all takes up too much, and keep in mind we need explanations for Zavok, Metal, Evil Shadow,  and good GOD good luck explaining Chaos.

Plus they'll focus on Infinite more than anyone/anything probably.

Hot mess doesn't begin to cover Forces, it just doesn't.

Mania is likely meant to cover everything revolving Classic and he will just drop in, no questions nor' answers. Just there.

[Jango]

I'm gonna be honest with myself and say that I'm actually glad I saw the spoilers, especially the one regarding Forces' connection. I am annoyed to know it's true, but I'm damn sure that if I had experimented this while playing the game blind, I would be pissed.

I must come out and say why I think this decision will ultimately do more harm than good. Hope you understand.

This game was made to appeal to classic fans, and classic fans only. It was stated multiple times that this is the game to >that< kind of fans. And, unlike soulless previous attempts, this IS the Sonic 4 as you've truly imagined it. 

Then, someone decides to insert not a nod or easter-egg, but a whole plot device and, on top of that, a cliffhanger. Both of them from a game that has COMPLETELY DIFFERENT mechanics, aesthetics, and most important: target audience. Target audience. 

I want someone to give me ONE good reason to justify this decision: end a game with a cliffhanger to a completely different game. Can you imagine how annoyed the people who want nothing to do with Sonic Forces will feel when the game meant for them has no true ending? How weird it will be for people who don't even know about Sonic Forces? What these people are supposed to do? They're being forced to either buy the game to see it's ending, or watch it on YT.

But right now Sonic Mania has no ending. And that's not good at all. It had NO RIGHT to be like this. This was a big mistake.

As if this isn't enough, other part of the game suffers from it: level transitions. Sure it's "just" a minor thing for some, but thanks to Forces' shenanigans, most of them are lazy ass teleportation stuff to justify the game's villain Infinite... It's bad because both Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon have cool transitions. I think all levels were going to have unique transitions, but they had to change it near the end of production to the same basic teleportation thingy... And what about the Sonic Island? Scrapped? Never meant anything? 

IDK man. We shall find out if I'm wrong or right on tuesday. But mark my words, the Forces' connection was a mistake and will do more harm than good.

 

 

[ChikaBoing]

i finally got to see credits (the only person in the world to care about this)

it really is astounding how many damn legal, business and marketing people they always credit, in relative size to the actual game dev team, and also how few people were involved in the olden days of game development. for mania, also just 3 people on art and programming, with level design being about 5 people (the amount that sonic games today also have). 

Jun Senoue helped in the audio engineering

Aaron Webber was the actual producer of the opening short of Mania...it really is his highlight of his career thus far (well...depends on much you value memes)

and...Iizuka and Hoshino also had the same supervisory roles for the animation same way they did the CGI intros in Heroes and Shadow...so yeah

also, Atlus USA in Sonic credits? that will always be very weird...

[McGroose]

6 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I really don't think they're going to put anywhere near that much effort into properly telling/explaining their plot.

That all takes up too much, and keep in mind we need explanations for Zavok, Metal, Evil Shadow,  and good GOD good luck explaining Chaos.

Plus they'll focus on Infinite more than anyone/anything probably.

Hot mess doesn't begin to cover Forces, it just doesn't.

Mania is likely meant to cover everything revolving Classic and he will just drop in, no questions nor' answers. Just there.

Wow, good job putting Sega at such a ridiculously shitty standard. Don't take into account that anyone with common sense would know that if you make a story as poorly explained as you described that it would be objectively terrible. "But it's Sega!" Ya, and Sega's been proven to be dumb, but I can only think of one time they've made a story that was true shit (06). Boom, for as awful as it was, still had an acceptable story. You can criticize the gameplay as much as you want, but to criticize the story of a game prior to it's release is incredibly unfair. All you know so far is that Eggman rules the world, there's a resistance, and he's somehow made some older enemies loyal to him, likely due to some form of dimension traveling via that mysterious purple gem (which could be in Infinite). Oh, and Classic's back and we've got a new guy to play with I'd say we know 5% of the story.

Forces isn't Generations. One of the main selling points of this game is the story alone. This game will probably be as story-driven as Adventure 2.

[Dr. Mechano]

2 minutes ago, McGroose said:

Ya, and Sega's been proven to be dumb, but I can only think of one time they've made a story that was true shit (06).

I feel like it's fair to call Shadow the Hedgehog's story a hot nonsensical mess as well.