Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

[McGroose]

11 minutes ago, KHCast said:

That sure is some optimism for Segas competence. And given how they treated classics inclusion given that interview a few days ago, I'm not really trusting of the idea that Sega have given it that much thought. Like, you're actually insinuating that the ending, which has SIMILAR properties that have been shown in Forces is mere coincidence, and that it's more likely they still have nothing to do with eachother. I mean...?

That's optimism? I'd hardly call that optimism at all. Maybe I'm just not as pessimistic as so many other people here are about the story. Even 06 had a backstory for how Silver traveled through time. It's a bad one, but since I'd consider 06 to be the lowest point story telling can reach in a Sonic game, I'm sure we'll get at least some explanation in Forces itself as to how Classic switched dimensions. 

I mentioned the article in another post because it brought up an important point, that Classic Sonic was a very early idea for the game. Since Mania began development much later than Forces, that would mean that the stories for both would need to have been changed, requiring even more effort. What I'm suggesting is that Sega actually took the easier route and probably didn't try to connect the two games. At least, not in the sence that Mania is a direct prequel to Forces. I'm not disregarding the importance of that mystery gem though. Me suggesting that it's a coincidence is just one idea I had.

[Chris Knopps]

9 minutes ago, Sonicfan287 said:

Honestly, Forces should've just been "Robotnik takes over the world" because it's what we've been waiting for since the beginning. Focus on that Sonic vs. Robotnik vibe and have Tails and Knuckles be alternate playable characters. It would've been a nostalgic adventure while also being something brand new. Instead it's way overcomplicated and I don't know why. It could still be fun to play (I'm a bit more forgiving on story if the game is actually fun which we have yet to see) and therefore still a decent title but this just seems like such a slam dunk of an idea and they've found a way to make it convoluted. 

It's because SEGA likely no longer have confidence in Eggman as a villain. They've spent so many years making him a comedic joke, a laughingstock, even making characters throw rocks at him, that they can't seem to find a way to, or no longer wish, to make him capable of doing things single handed again, to make him threatening again.

They will throw him in as the "real final boss" perhaps, but other villains take his role for the most part, so it doesn't do his character any favors. Then you have Forces where he finally rules the world, but it's by the hands of and/or thanks to someone else, hence him being at the sidelines cheer leading Infinite with his "nice!" remark when the guy pounds Sonic.

MODERN Eggman I should say today is worthless as a villain, SEGA is likely aware of this, hence the plot of most titles nowadays involving someone or something actually menacing/threatening taking over so much. Sure you could use Colors as an argument, but his character still didn't do him any favors even when spotlighted in that title, he was still a joke the whole game through and the scenes made it a point to, well, point that out.

It's possible they literally feel there's no point in a serious Eggman anymore, no point in him being threatening since he's more entertaining as a joke I guess.

(Hell even HIMSELF can't stand who he is today, thank you Generations Robotnik for pointing it out)

[Dr. Mechano]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

MODERN Eggman I should say today is worthless as a villain, SEGA is likely aware of this, hence the plot of most titles nowadays involving someone or something actually menacing/threatening taking over so much. Sure you could use Colors as an argument, but his character still didn't do him any favors even when spotlighted in that title, he was still a joke the whole game through and the scenes made it a point to, well, point that out.

I have to disagree here.

I feel like Colors Eggman stole the show in every scene he was in, and in Lost World he managed to improvise a plan on the fly to regain control of his scheme even after being overthrown. Modern Eggman is goofy but still competent, I'm going to say -  and is very likable and entertaining all the way.

With that said, I do feel like his character's been dumbed down a bit. SA2 gave us an Eggman who was not only sinister and cunning, but morally complex, showing not only heroic inclinations but also genuine regret over his childhood hero's descent into madness. It was a game that wrote Eggman as a human, and not just a zany cartoon character with no depth.

...And don't get me wrong, I love zany Eggman, but it's nice to see a more subdued, thoughtful side of him too sometimes. A side of him that's unfortunately gone almost completely by the wayside in recent games.

[Zippo]

Most Australians/Most Southern Hemisphere countries should be able to download the game Monday morning American time, right?

[Kuzu]

I'm of the opinion that Eggman is a "villain" the same way Bowser is a "Villain". In that while they're antagonists, but the audience doesn't really take them seriously anymore due to their comedic traits usually overshadowing their villainous ones. And sure, they're good characters full of charm, but they're not the type of villains that you really want to beat. More like nuisances that are getting in your way. And Sega have become self-aware about it by having the main characters not take him seriously either and usually have jokes at his expense.

Sonic Adventure 2 was the last time I truly felt Eggman was on his A-game and was a legit threat. He wasn't the biggest threat, but he pulled enough weight on his own. Nowadays, given the lackadaisical and comedic atmosphere of the series, his plans are mostly treated as hindrances and obstacles rather than full on threats that need to be stopped.

 

 

Soooooo, yea. That's my take on it. It's also why I've never had as much of a problem with the "Eggman gets upstaged by another villain" trope...well it is overused, so I'll give it that. But it does establish there's an actual  threat that needs to be overcome, and I feel that's their way of establishing that these guys are "badder" than Eggman. That said, it was nice that they managed to pull that trope this time without removing Eggman from the equation completely. 

Though I have to wonder on the context of the whole thing and why the last Heavy turned on Eggman.

[Dr. Mechano]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'm of the opinion that Eggman is a "villain" the same way Bowser is a "Villain". In that while they're antagonists, but the audience doesn't really take them seriously anymore due to their comedic traits usually overshadowing their villainous ones. And sure, they're good characters full of charm, but they're not the type of villains that you really want to beat. More like nuisances that are getting in your way. And Sega have become self-aware about it by having the main characters not take him seriously either and usually have jokes at his expense.

But I don't think being a likable, endearing character should exclude Eggman (or Bowser for that matter) from being taken seriously as a foe. I think both characters have managed quite well at solo villain outings, in fact.

I think in the hands of a competent writer, Eggman can easily be portrayed as both likable and intimidating at the same time. I'd argue that even in Mania's bare-bones story, it pulls this off, portraying Eggman as utterly zany yet still on top of his game enough to not get undermined by his usurping robot in the end. 

Also, I feel like another reason the "other villain usurps Eggman" trope bores me to tears is because these other villains are usually really uninteresting as characters. They have no charm, no likability, no personality beyond being strong and evil. And I feel that you need more than that for a compelling villain, which is why Eggman appeals to me so much; He's got personality in spades, something that the vast majority of other antagonists in this series are desperately lacking.

 

[Jango]

17 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Most Australians/Most Southern Hemisphere countries should be able to download the game Monday morning American time, right?

PSN is telling me I can pre-download it 13th. I'm from Latin America. Hm.

In other news, this beauty is nearly at 1 million views!

 

[Zippo]

3 minutes ago, Jango said:

PSN is telling me I can pre-download it 13th. I'm from Latin America. 

Yes, just did some research. Going by Steam, Australian/Oceania will most likely get the game first. If you just can't wait to play it until tuesday, you can use a VPN and download the game on Monday morning in the Americas.

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

But I don't think being a likable, endearing character should exclude Eggman (or Bowser for that matter) from being taken seriously as a foe. I think both characters have managed quite well at solo villain outings, in fact.

I think in the hands of a competent writer, Eggman can easily be portrayed as both likable and intimidating at the same time. I'd argue that even in Mania's bare-bones story, it pulls this off, portraying Eggman as utterly zany yet still on top of his game enough to not get undermined by his usurping robot in the end. 

Also, I feel like another reason the "other villain usurps Eggman" trope bores me to tears is because these other villains are usually really uninteresting as characters. They have no charm, no likability, no personality beyond being strong and evil. And I feel that you need more than that for a compelling villain, which is why Eggman appeals to me so much; He's got personality in spades, something that the vast majority of other antagonists in this series are desperately lacking.

 

I'm not saying these traits should be exercised out of Eggman. Its just more often than not, Sega are just content with portraying him as more of friendly rival that Sonic rarely takes seriously rather than an actual threat. Its why the constant lauding of him as being the final boss is lost on me, because I feel like a final boss should be the culmination of the entire adventure and the last obstacle to overcome to get that ending. Rather than just...ya know, the last boss you simply fight at the end of the game.

There's nothing wrong with his character and I have no issues with that, it's the threat level. It's a big reason why I don't mind the other villains because while their characters are usually weak, the focus isn't usually on them anyway and more about the heroes having to overcome the threat they present. It's different, but I don't usually mind. Though I do understand why it irks you as a fan of Eggman.

[Tenko]

9 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Yes, just did some research. Going by Steam, Australian/Oceania will most likely get the game first. If you just can't wait to play it until tuesday, you can use a VPN and download the game on Monday morning in the Americas.

Sadly Steam doesn't use local dates/time for releases, which is ass, I'm in New Zealand and before the PC release date being changed it was using the American release date for its unlock timer, so a day later than it should have been by our local date. The console versions, PS4 and Switch etc, they should in theory be out on the stated launch date but local time, so early to everyone else.

[Kuzu]

Also, looking at mostly the streams, the zone transitions were pretty lazy this time.

[Jango]

8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Also, looking at mostly the streams, the zone transitions were pretty lazy this time.

The only zones that have a proper transition are Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon. I'm guessing they all had unique transitions, but in order to make that connection with Forces (the Infinite's gem has the power to wrap) the original transition ideas were replaced with the lazy wrap thingy. They didn't changed Studiopolis and Mirage Saloon coz' these were already finished (they were shown very early). I'm telling you this was a late decision. Conspiracy!

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, Dr. Mechano said:

It's not like "serious" can't work with Sonic, but I feel like Sega's just really bad at it.

I feel like they should focus on being charming first; Because doing that is a great way to get us to like - and therefore care about - the characters. Mania manages to do this quite well, despite its minimalistic story, as the characters are highly animated and display tons of personality.

I think darker Sonic stories can work, but they should take a page from the Mario RPGs and balance the more serious themes with the same likable, whimsical charm that got us to like these characters in the first place, and not go so overly dark that it feels like a forced cry for relevancy.

There's a balance they could strike and they just never do whenever they try for more "serious" stories. Remember, the people behind Shadow the Hedgehog genuinely thought it was a gripping, well-written serious story. It actually wasn't meant to be a comedy, unbelievably.

Mario RPG-like isn't balanced enough for me (except maybe SPM). How about we take cues from Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 or Iron Man 3 instead?

[Heckboy]

Just want to say that I'm not as annoyed by the apparent tie-in to Forces as I thought I'd be, since it's not like Infinite showed up as the final boss or anything lol.

Plus the rest of the game seems good from what I've seen, so I do hope that we eventually get a Mania 2 or something, with all original levels and a more self-contained story.

[Zippo]

Really, really looking forward to playthroughs on this one. Eagerly awaiting playthroughs from Brainscratch, FTCR, Easy Allies, Gamexplain, SuperBestFriends, Oney, Geek Critique, among many others.

[Mark447]

Leaker here, you guys want me to test anything? Or do you have all the information you need

[Zippo]

YOOOOOOOOOOO

5 minutes ago, Mark447 said:

Leaker here, you guys want me to test anything? Or do you have all the information you need

My 3 questions.

Is there a sound test? Is there anyway you can capture music with no SFX? Has anything appeared in the extras menu?

[Mark447]

Also before anyone asks:

The game is MUCH easier than say Sonic 1, 2,3 and about the same difficulty as say the Sonic CD remake

I got a game over 12 times because I was exhausted for playing 9 hours straight, sorry for bitching about it

special stages are fun but can be hard at times

I'm not doing metal unlocks not because I don't want to, but because I'm bloody awful at blue spheres

I'm bloody awful at everything, but blue sphere especially

Something about the physics feel different to say Sonic 3 Complete, someone else is better suited to finding out the differences than myself.

This could just be me though, physics feel like the Sonic 1 and 2 mobile remake.

the game is visually stunning and plays like a dream

buy Spark the Electric Jester

7 minutes ago, Zippo said:

YOOOOOOOOOOO

My 3 questions.

Is there a sound test? Is there anyway you can capture music with no SFX? Has anything appeared in the extras menu?

I wasn't able to unlock anything in extras, may be due to lack of blue spheres, no sound test, and I doubt it I can capture music without SFX

[RK64]

3 minutes ago, Mark447 said:

Also before anyone asks:

The game is MUCH easier than say Sonic 1, 2,3 and about the same difficulty as say the Sonic CD remake

I got a game over 12 times because I was exhausted for playing 9 hours straight, sorry for bitching about it

special stages are fun but can be hard at times

I'm not doing metal unlocks not because I don't want to, but because I'm bloody awful at blue spheres

I'm bloody awful at everything, but blue sphere especially

Something about the physics feel different to say Sonic 3 Complete, someone else is better suited to finding out the differences than myself.

This could just be me though, physics feel like the Sonic 1 and 2 mobile remake.

the game is visually stunning and plays like a dream

buy Spark the Electric Jester

First off, I thought you did well when playing the game. I loved all the un-seen stuff being showed off! The reason for the physics being so similar to the mobile Sonic 1 and 2 remakes, is because the game runs on the very same engine (Retro Engine) as those titles. Even though you said the game is easier than past classic games, I can easily tell...

Spoiler

Oil Ocean and Titanic Monarch

...are going to be the most tricky ones of the bunch. And I do own Spark, in case you was wondering :P. Very good game by the way.

Edit: I think you can record the music; just start the stage up and stay in place for a full minute or so. Only record the audio and leave the game 'still'. I think that should work. 

[McGroose]

You'd probably not want to read through the pages discussing your Oil Ocean playthrough.

I will give you some credit though, some of these levels do look difficult. Honestly, the bosses look far more difficult than the other games, especially Oil Ocean's boss and the Super Sonic Boss.

BTW, I'm certain the only way to unlock the extras is to beat the game under a very strict time limit via Time attack. If I had to guess, 40 minutes. Sonic CD's remake did the same thing, except that had to be beaten under 25 minutes to unlock the extras.

If I'd have to ask you for anything else, it'd just be knuckles exclusive content outside of level design differences. I'm talking about bosses, cutscenes, etc.

[Mark447]

2 minutes ago, RK64 said:

First off, I thought you did well when playing the game. I loved all the un-seen stuff being showed off! The reason for the physics being so similar to the mobile Sonic 1 and 2 remakes, is because the game runs on the very same engine (Retro Engine) as those titles. Even though you said the game is easier than past classic games, I can easily tell...

  Reveal hidden contents

Oil Ocean and Titanic Monarch

...are going to be the most tricky ones of the bunch. And I do own Spark, in case you was wondering :P. Very good game by the way.

I had problems with Oil Ocean since I kept getting crushed, everyone else should be fine.

"I do own Spark"

THAS RITE

2 minutes ago, McGroose said:

You'd probably not want to read through the pages discussing your Oil Ocean playthrough.

 

yeah, everyone was probably pissed since I was sucking so bad. No worries though.

 

Also the only Knuckles exclusive I noticed was the first cut scene. Everything should be the same or similar to Sonic. I can do a Knuckles play through if you want.

[McGroose]

Just now, Mark447 said:

yeah, everyone was probably pissed since I was sucking so bad. No worries though.

Pissed? Naw, we were laughing our asses off at your frustrated commentary.

"Grab the fucking ring, Tails!" was the subtitle for this thread for a little while. XD

[The Tenth Doctor]

Hey dude, thanks for answering questions. One I have is in the Final Boss Super Sonic seemed to fly around. Can he fly anywhere else?

[Mark447]

3 minutes ago, McGroose said:

Oil Ocean's boss and the Super Sonic Boss.

 

Oil Ocean's boss probably wasn't that hard, you just have to kill off the grey shooter things. Once they're done with then the boss is practically over.

[JosepHenry]

15 minutes ago, Mark447 said:

Leaker here, you guys want me to test anything? Or do you have all the information you need

So any hopes of secrets like playable characters?