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Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

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4 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I really wouldn't mind if a Mania sequel still had a few retro stages.  Maybe reverse the ratio we saw in Mania 1.  I wouldn't even mind if Mania 2 is a shorter game for it.

I wouldn't necessarily mind seeing more returning stages either. Just one or two though, and possibly as bonuses that are achieved through alternate exits (ala S2 Hidden Palace) or something. The fact that the Classic stages in Mania hold up so well compared to the content that is 100% new is remarkable.

Give me a game with only entirely new levels and I'll be happy, Throw in a couple of Classics and I'll still be just as happy. But any more than that and I'll be disappointed. The Classic levels in Mania have served their purpose, and they did it well.

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For me, an ideal Mania sequel would have 100% new zones with maybe few throwback references here and there in the form of bosses or gimmicks, but I actually wouldn't mind if they brought back a couple old zones from more obscure titles.

Seeing levels like Toxic Caves or Sunset Park Zone with a Mania-esque facelift would would be a dream come true, and not just because I have a perpetual hard-on for each level's music. 

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I guess a few more re-imagined  zones wouldn't be a terrible idea, but mostly new content would be better. Studiopolis, Mirage Saloon & Press Garden act2 are really good designs & beautiful stages. I'd love to see more like them.

I think it's also important the dev team gets more development time so they don't end up having to cut content like half the story. 

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After having my initial doubts when Mania was announced, I'd be happy to see a 50/50 mix of classic and new stages for Mania 2. Some of these classic stages should be based on the 8 bit games though (forget Tidal Plant!). 

As for new stages, seeing as Eggman had TV and the press under his control first time around, let's see radio and the Internet as tropes. 

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Just been exploring Knuckles' Mirage Saloon act1. Now that's my kind of Knux stage!

It makes full use of Knuckles abilities. It's jam-packed with secret areas.

There's a giant special stage ring right near the start (at the bottom) and there's at least five extra-life boxes. This might be the best designed Knuckles-only stage in a classic game ever.

It's also got a pretty good mini-boss fight.

I easily prefer this over Sonic & Tails act1.

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Sonic and Tails' act was easily the best Sky Chase style Zone we've ever had. But that's not saying much really, and it's not exactly amazing. Knuckles' act is glorious though. And that hip-hop music is so dang fitting I want to hear Hunnid-P rap over it.

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6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'm still collecting the Chaos Emeralds with Sonic. Once that's done, I'm gonna go and play as Knuckles.

Heads up! The first boss in act 1 of Titanic March is a pile of bullshit a s knuckles. So watch out for that if you don't have all the emeralds. Also, Oil Oceans act 2 boss can fuck right off as knuckles.

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1 hour ago, Shiguy said:

Heads up! The first boss in act 1 of Titanic March is a pile of bullshit a s knuckles. So watch out for that if you don't have all the emeralds. Also, Oil Oceans act 2 boss can fuck right off as knuckles.

I agree with you on TM's Act 1 boss. You will have to take a hit, and jump in while you have the invisibility frames. I didn't have much trouble with the Oil Ocean boss. The fire shield kept the shots off me. 

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12 hours ago, JezMM said:

Man, forgive the nerding but I've been trying to headcanon together patch jobs for the missing chunks of story in the game and this is what I got:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Green Hill Zone
Chemical Plant Zone
Studiopolis Zone
Flying Battery Zone

  • The Flying Battery lands on Angel Island , where Press Garden is located at the foot of Ice Cap.

Press Garden Zone

  • In the cut-scene, Eggman uses the Phantom Ruby to warp Little Planet so it is now connected to Angel Island.

Stardust Speedway Zone

  • Eggman blasts Sonic off of Miracle Planet down onto Angel Island, and is then shown returning inside the under-construction Titanic Monarch (I thought it was just a big ole' cool statue and didn't appreciate it's significance originally).

Hydrocity Zone

  • Sonic and Tails get split up before the boss fight, falling down seperate crumbling chutes.  After the boss fight, Eggman again uses the Phantom Ruby to warp the Angel Island/Miracle Planet above Westside Island.  The ground crumbles in Hydrocity and Sonic falls out the bottom of Angel Island.  Tails catches him on the Tornado and they fly down towards Westside Island.

Mirage Saloon Zone
Oil Ocean Zone

  • Eggman is caught sending fuel tankers up to Little Planet for some reason.  He spots Sonic and activates the machinery below him, and Sonic is blasted away back up to the underside of Angel Island, and into Lava Reef.

Lava Reef Zone

  • Sonic discovers the chain connecting Little Planet and heads on up.  Upon arrival he sees the completed Titanic Monarch in the distance and heads into the base surrounding it.

Metallic Madness Zone

  • Just a simple cut-scene of heading to the next area would be all that would be necessary here.

 

Of course this is just a fanfic of how they COULD have connected all these together... the reality is of course my idea cannot work with the opening (where Angel Island is in the sea, still without explaination), and the ending (where Little Planet is above Never Lake as usual).

Oh wow if you never mentioned that I wouldn't have noticed that Little Planet is above Never Lake in the ending. 

Which means where the FUCK did Angel Island go.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh Mania is fucking amazing man but this story shit is pissing me off to no end. It's wasted potential. The same exact shit as Generations. 

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16 minutes ago, Hard-Boiled Wisp said:

Oh wow if you never mentioned that I wouldn't have noticed that Little Planet is above Never Lake in the ending. 

Which means where the FUCK did Angel Island go.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh Mania is fucking amazing man but this story shit is pissing me off to no end. It's wasted potential. The same exact shit as Generations. 

I double checked this because I was working from memory - I was wrong, Little Planet is above the sea, so it likely is canon that it was attached to Angel Island in some manner.  This could technically justify all the zones being close together if instead of my silly headcanon, we assume that Mirage Saloon is yet another previously unvisited location on Angel Island, and that Oil Ocean is a newly rebuilt version by Eggman rather than the exact original.

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9 minutes ago, JezMM said:

I double checked this because I was working from memory - I was wrong, Little Planet is above the sea, so it likely is canon that it was attached to Angel Island in some manner.  This could technically justify all the zones being close together if instead of my silly headcanon, we assume that Mirage Saloon is yet another previously unvisited location on Angel Island, and that Oil Ocean is a newly rebuilt version by Eggman rather than the exact original.

My problem is that according to... Iizuka? There will be no DLC because there wasn't too much stuff cut from the game and everything was as intended.

Which seems to imply the missing story transitions are not something they couldn't do but it's something they just didn't bother to do and I have to admit that fucking grinds my gears a little bit. 

I am not saying Mania sucks and it should bomb god no the game is fantastic one of the best Sonic games of all time imo but it's reaaaaaaaaally glaring man, why not add something that adds to the experience and helps give Mania the quality of life work it deserves. The potential is there for something much more and it should have been more.

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Wow is that final final boss really something. I'm actually very happy that you're given the option to run or fly around at your own discretion, but the boss is ridiculously hard. Avoiding the Heavy King's attacks are bad enough, but you're only given a minute opportunity to even attack him before his shield protects him again. It certainly doesn't help that his attacks can actually damage you causing you to lose rings and rings are pretty damn scarce (unlike how they were handled in Heroes). Definitely one of the stronger final bosses I've ever seen in a Sonic game, but I'm definitely going to have to take a break before doing it again. I literally did Titanic Monarch 3 times just to reach that boss again only to fail miserably.

All I wanted to see was the "good" ending. :(

Edit: I will say that I'm glad Eggman's importance as the antagonist wasn't shafted in favor of the Heavy King. He actually plays a pervasive and equal role in the battle even though he isn't quite as strong.

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1 hour ago, JezMM said:

I double checked this because I was working from memory - I was wrong, Little Planet is above the sea, so it likely is canon that it was attached to Angel Island in some manner.  This could technically justify all the zones being close together if instead of my silly headcanon, we assume that Mirage Saloon is yet another previously unvisited location on Angel Island, and that Oil Ocean is a newly rebuilt version by Eggman rather than the exact original.

This is just something I thought of a moment ago, but I think it might be worth serious consideration.  If the Phantom Ruby allowed Eggman to not only reconquer Little Planet, but also move it to Angel Island, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't transport any Zone to suit his needs.  Oil Ocean might actually be the original zone, but transplanted onto Angel Island, and it connects to Lava Reef because Eggman's using both of them to support his base on the Little Planet.

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2 hours ago, G-Force said:

This is just something I thought of a moment ago, but I think it might be worth serious consideration.  If the Phantom Ruby allowed Eggman to not only reconquer Little Planet, but also move it to Angel Island, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't transport any Zone to suit his needs.  Oil Ocean might actually be the original zone, but transplanted onto Angel Island, and it connects to Lava Reef because Eggman's using both of them to support his base on the Little Planet.

As a general question, has anyone tried reaching out to the development team and/or Aaron or Sergio to ask them directly about the story gaps/missing transitions? Like via Twitter or on a Twitch stream maybe? Some of them are on some forums like Sonic Retro, right?  

 

Not going to be able to get the game for some time, but it really sounds spectacular except for the fact that the story apparently deteriorates at times...

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Someone here asked Taxman, but no reply yet.

I personally think that they could add this later. It would be just adding some cutscenes. That would be a very light update (it wouldn't even impact on gameplay; player can do nothing during cutscenes).

I don't think Taxman would leave his "creature" incomplete in this way. They can't make blue spheres a side game and add a new bonus stage, but adding... 6? cutscenes y something totally feasible, and worth it. I wouldn't bet it's being done for the PC release, but I'm positive they won't leave the game with that flaw.

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11 hours ago, Hard-Boiled Wisp said:

Which seems to imply the missing story transitions are not something they couldn't do but it's something they just didn't bother to do and I have to admit that fucking grinds my gears a little bit.

They may have had to change the original level order around to avoid difficulty spikes, which would have thrown several cutscenes out of the window at a late stage (so during playtesting).

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I'm hoping the reason it hasn't been brought up despite it being noticed by both fans and some critics is because it's already being worked on and will be included in the bug fix patch thats already been mentioned by Taxman. Perhaps the PC version will come pre-patched and the consoles will get a patch around the same time as the PC release? Wishful thinking maybe.

I'm hoping so anyway, and it's not just gunna be dodged and ignored by Sega due to the game getting high praise and positive scores regardless making them think it doesn't need it's minor flaws fixed up.

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So I gotta ask you guys' opinion on something. I recently wrote a review for Sonic Mania, but do you think I criticized past Sonic games too much? I feel like I only mentioned them briefly just to emphasis what a great accomplishment Mania is after so long, but some comments on Reddit don't like how I make those comparisons. I dunno, what do you think? I also tried not to say that a game straight up sucked, just that it generally wasn't well received. 

I'm honestly curious so I'll know what to do better next time.

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19 minutes ago, PKGaming said:

So I gotta ask you guys' opinion on something. I recently wrote a review for Sonic Mania, but do you think I criticized past Sonic games too much? I feel like I only mentioned them briefly just to emphasis what a great accomplishment Mania is after so long, but some comments on Reddit don't like how I make those comparisons. I dunno, what do you think? I also tried not to say that a game straight up sucked, just that it generally wasn't well received. 

I'm honestly curious so I'll know what to do better next time.

It's fine. You didn't go off on a tangent about Sonic's shortcomings, you provided enough detail that conveys the importance of Mania's presence and how Mania became a monumental achievement for Sonic which can revitalize the series. It's fine, I wouldn't let what some strangers on Reddit have said get to you. It's clear, concise, well-written, and the introduction does what you intended. You could however, make do with mentioning Sonic 06 when you commend Mania for its soundtrack because it's unnecessary, but that's solely up to you.

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Press Garden is a very nice stage. Especially act 2. It's fun. Mirage Saloon and Studiopolis are cool too.

On the other hand, I never liked Flying Battery, Hydrocity, Oil Ocean or Lava Reef... And I can't say I like them in Mania either, unfortunately. I do like how they added rain to FB's second act, the boss for Hydrocity act 1, and the nod to Sand... opolis? With the lever pulling in Oil Ocean. 

Overall it's a pretty mixed bag for me, playing through it a third time. Still good, but it's not as fun as when I first played it.

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2 hours ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

It's fine. You didn't go off on a tangent about Sonic's shortcomings, you provided enough detail that conveys the importance of Mania's presence and how Mania became a monumental achievement for Sonic which can revitalize the series. It's fine, I wouldn't let what some strangers on Reddit have said get to you. It's clear, concise, well-written, and the introduction does what you intended. You could however, make do with mentioning Sonic 06 when you commend Mania for its soundtrack because it's unnecessary, but that's solely up to you.

Thanks so much for the feedback! And yeah, you're probably right. Specifically mentioning Sonic 06 isn't really necessary.

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On 8/21/2017 at 3:38 PM, Clewis said:

For me, an ideal Mania sequel would have 100% new zones with maybe few throwback references here and there in the form of bosses or gimmicks, but I actually wouldn't mind if they brought back a couple old zones from more obscure titles.

Seeing levels like Toxic Caves or Sunset Park Zone with a Mania-esque facelift would would be a dream come true, and not just because I have a perpetual hard-on for each level's music. 

Since we started revisiting Sonic stages in the last few years I've been desperately hoping for a Sunset Park remake. It seems unlikely to happen given that Triple Trouble isn't that well known outside the fanbase and that Sunset Park itself really isn't that extraordinary of a Zone. The music really makes it, but I still hope it happens eventually. 

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