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Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

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20 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

An achievement, so if you don't like Blue Spheres and don't care about achievements, then don't bother.

Ah. Well I have the Switch version, so... lol 

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Sonic Mania was very good, but Sonic 3 & Knuckles set the bar so high it was impossible for any Sonic game to reach that standard. There's not a single level I don't like in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and unfortuantly Sonic Mania has my least favourite classic Sonic level in there. I'm glad it exists though, and Studiopolis Zone and Titanic Monarch Zone were totally worth the admission, but I just can't see myself giving it a 10/10.

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41 minutes ago, AdrenalinDragon said:

unfortuantly Sonic Mania has my least favourite classic Sonic level in there

Which one?

I can't say it's better than Sonic 3&K either. But to me it's better than Sonic 2, in the sense that it has all the improvements S3 introduced (characters, shields, act 1 bosses, bonus stages, cutscenes...), and some new stuff (the drop dash is really awesome; it's amazing Sonic Team never figured this out). 

I would have left Blue Spheres in a separate mode, and created a new, shorter bonus stage like S3&K had. However, the new levels are just so amazing and challenging. I'm really happy that Blue Spheres made it to Mania.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles > Sonic Mania > Sonic 2 > Sonic 1 > Sonic CD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonic 4

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I didn't even like S3&K that much because of Blue Spheres. Blue Spheres in that game kinda ruined it for me, and Blue Spheres in this game also ruined my experience.

There were many times that I felt so dizzy with the game moving too fast with all the twisting and turning. Mania actually made the Blue Spheres experience worse than S3&K. If I didn't do the trick that stops Mania from randomizing the stages all the time I wouldn't have unlocked all the extras. It would have been impossible for me.

If you have poor eye-coordination and memory, you are screeeewwweeed. And yes, I don't have a good memory of remembering all 30 odd Sphere stages. >.>

I don't like classic Sonic games in general (grew up with Adventure), but Sonic CD is the only game that I generally liked in that era. Sonic 1 and 2 were good though too.

CD > 2 > 1 > 3&K > Mania

If it weren't for the Blue Spheres, 3&K and Mania would have been 2nd and 3rd.

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I actually enjoyed Oil Ocean act 2 (act 1 was nothing special, and it's not as cool as other zones like Hidrocity, Green Hill, Chemical Plant...). I loved that they went for a mix with Sandopolis' act 2, and the fire effects, the submarine parts...

By the way, I loved how the put the Glowing Spheres bonus stage in Titanic Monarch. I loved that bonus stage.

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Well, I am done with Blue Spheres (all gold medals) and I must say that Mania is really amazing. To me, Mania is at par with 3&K and over any other classic (I love all the classics). Why ?
1) There were few levels that were less entertaining in 3&K... Angel Island, Marble Garden... go to hell Carnival Night... Mushroom Hill. They made me feel even when I was young and played it for the first few times that there are moments, when you can get bored.

In Mania I enjoyed every stage.

2) The only thing that Mania really needs are the missing transitions. And fixing some bugs... those looking really odd.

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7 minutes ago, superman43 said:


1) There were few levels that were less entertaining in 3&K... Angel Island, Marble Garden... go to hell Carnival Night... Mushroom Hill. They made me feel even when I was young and played it for the first few times that there are moments, when you can get bored.

In Mania I enjoyed every stage.

 

I have to disagree with you there. I would have preferred Mushroom Hill over Green Hill, simply because Green Hill (and its variants) has been used too many times over the years. We are even seeing more Green Hill in Forces.

Mushroom Hill is unique and I bet if the Taxman team got their hands on remaking Mushroom Hill, you won't get bored of it.

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2 hours ago, molul said:

Which one?

I can't say it's better than Sonic 3&K either. But to me it's better than Sonic 2, in the sense that it has all the improvements S3 introduced (characters, shields, act 1 bosses, bonus stages, cutscenes...), and some new stuff (the drop dash is really awesome; it's amazing Sonic Team never figured this out). 

I would have left Blue Spheres in a separate mode, and created a new, shorter bonus stage like S3&K had. However, the new levels are just so amazing and challenging. I'm really happy that Blue Spheres made it to Mania.

Sonic 3 & Knuckles > Sonic Mania > Sonic 2 > Sonic 1 > Sonic CD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonic 4

Oil Ocean Zone. I think I dislike it even more in Sonic Mania due to the Act 2 gimmick and boss.

My ratings for the original Sonic trilogy and Mania:

Sonic the Hedgehog - 10/10

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - 9.5/10

Sonic 3 & Knuckles - 10/10

Sonic Mania - 8.5/10

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31 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

8.5 sounds pretty fair to me, I'd probably give it the same.

S3&K - 9.5/10

Mania - 8.5/10

CD - 8/10

Sonic 1 - 7.5/10

Sonic 2 - 6/10

What the WHAT

Btw, I got to Lava Reef, did Oil Ocean without dying once!  I had more problems with Chemical Plant and the Hydrocity Act 2 boss honestly. I really like the bosses so far, even that Metal Sonic boss which got so criticized.

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11 minutes ago, Jack the Rookie said:

What the WHAT

Still above average.

Sonic 2 has the largest ratio of zones I dislike to those I like.

  • Aquatic Ruin is one of my least favorite classic zones. In fact, I think it might be the worst. It's just a mess and is rife with garbage that hits you before you can react, even after all these years and countless playthroughs.
  • Casino Night is my least favorite "bouncy" stage, though it's still a fine level.
  • Hill Top has terrible music, a bland aesthetic (it is a recolor), and unremarkable gimmicks.
  • Metropolis is overly long, samey, a bit cheap, and generally a bore.
  • Sky Chase slams the breaks on the games momentum, generally not a fan of auto-scrolling in a Sonic game.
  • Death Egg's lack of rings would be fine if not for the fact that the Death Egg Robot is buggy. Clipping through him and getting hurt would be more tolerable if I had a ring or two to rebound with.
  • I get this was the first game Super Sonic was included in, so they hadn't quite figured this out, but transforming as soon as you jump blows and results in transformations the player has little control over (unless they opt not to get the emeralds, which is somewhat reasonable since you don't unlock much for getting them besides Super Sonic.)
  • Competition mode runs like trash.
  • Special Stages are about rote memorization and playing them with Tails is like hamstringing yourself with input latency.

There's a lot to love about Sonic 2 and I get why it would top most people's lists but I honestly feel it's weak in a LOT of ways. It was also the first Sonic game I owned as a kid and I kind of burnt myself out on it, even back in the 90s, which probably impacts my ability to enjoy it upon revisiting.

Being that this thread is about Mania and I don't want to derail it horribly: I do think Mirage Saloon Act 1 is a good take on Sky Chase. It's odd, because I don't think it changes much about it mechanically, so much as the level and its music makes it feel a lot more fast paced than it actually is. The opening, time transition, and momentary break on the train also help to break up the zone a bit, though I do wish more of the level took place on the train. Kinda feel like that's an interesting concept that wasn't explored as fully as I'd like.

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3 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Still above average.

Sonic 2 has the largest ratio of zones I dislike to those I like.

  • Aquatic Ruin is one of my least favorite classic zones. In fact, I think it might be the worst. It's just a mess and is rife with garbage that hits you before you can react, even after all these years and countless playthroughs.
  • Casino Night is my least favorite "bouncy" stage, though it's still a fine level.
  • Hill Top has terrible music, a bland aesthetic (it is a recolor), and unremarkable gimmicks.
  • Metropolis is overly long, samey, a bit cheap, and generally a bore.
  • Sky Chase slams the breaks on the games momentum, generally not a fan of auto-scrolling in a Sonic game.
  • Death Egg's lack of rings would be fine if not for the fact that the Death Egg Robot is buggy. Clipping through him and getting hurt would be more tolerable if I had a ring or two to rebound with.
  • I get this was the first game Super Sonic was included in, so they hadn't quite figured this out, but transforming as soon as you jump blows and results in transformations the player has little control over (unless they opt not to get the emeralds, which is somewhat reasonable since you don't unlock much for getting them besides Super Sonic.)
  • Competition mode runs like trash.
  • Special Stages are about rote memorization and playing them with Tails is like hamstringing yourself with input latency.

There's a lot to love about Sonic 2 and I get why it would top most people's lists but I honestly feel it's weak in a LOT of ways.

Being that this thread is about Mania and I don't want to derail it horribly: I do think Mirage Saloon Act 1 is a good take on Sky Chase. It's odd, because I don't think it changes much about it mechanically, so much as the level and its music makes it feel a lot more fast paced than it actually is. The opening, time transition, and momentary break on the train also help to break up the zone a bit, though I do wish more of the level took place on the train. Kinda feel like that's an interesting concept that wasn't explored as fully as I'd like.

I always thought Sonic 2 was the weakest of the three, due to the second half of levels being weaker than the first. The special stages feel pretty much impossible if you have Tails as the CPU in it.

Mirage Saloon Act 1 became one of my least favourite levels due to the Sky Chase segment. If most of it was on the train, it could have potentially been a favourite for me.

Also, compared to other new Sonic games I've played, an 8.5/10 is a very good score from me.

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59 minutes ago, AdrenalinDragon said:

I always thought Sonic 2 was the weakest of the three, due to the second half of levels being weaker than the first. The special stages feel pretty much impossible if you have Tails as the CPU in it.

Oh really ? Yes, Sonic 2 special stages are about memorization, but you have much more chances to do it right... common there are literally tons of checkpoints in Sonic 2 overall.

But hey everyone. You must admit that Angel Island won´t be worth to be in Mania or in any future game ever. It´s just as boring as Aquatic Ruin/Hill Top/Metropolis. Yay, burning jungle. That´s probably why it is remembered. And because it´s first level.

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8 minutes ago, superman43 said:

Oh really ? Yes, Sonic 2 special stages are about memorization, but you have much more chances to do it right... common there are literally tons of checkpoints in Sonic 2 overall.

But hey everyone. You must admit that Angel Island won´t be worth to be in Mania or in any future game ever. It´s just as boring as Aquatic Ruin/Hill Top/Metropolis. Yay, burning jungle. That´s probably why it is remembered. And because it´s first level.

Angel Island is for me the weakest stage in Sonic 3 but it's heads and shoulders above Aquatic Ruin. Aquatic Ruin is trash.

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4 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Angel Island is for me the weakest stage in Sonic 3 but it's heads and shoulders above Aquatic Ruin. Aquatic Ruin is trash.

It´s above Aquatic Ruin but not by much. I mean neither of them have any game-breaking gimmicks (Ziplines vs. moving/falling platforms), burning Angel Island background is complete mess. Oh dear.

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I like Angel Island, actually quite alot and I wished it would've been in Mania instead of GHZ, though it's second act is pretty fun. Blue Spheres doesn't really work for me in Mania, as much as I liked it in S3&K, I don't think it works well for bonus stage.

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10 hours ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

Flying Battery to Press Garden, Stardust Speedway to Hydrocity, Hydrocity to Mirage Saloon, Oil Ocean to Lava Reef, Lave Reef to Metallic Madness, and Metallic Madness to Titanic Monarch are all lacking transitions.

That said, I think only Hydrocity lacks any real cutscene. The zones that don't have one between levels at least have something between acts or at the start.

While I do think the zones missing transitions should have one, even a short one, Sonic 3 as well as Sonic & Knuckles had one for each stage so it seems odd having some without in Mania, as you said some are connected in ways you can assume without an actual scene.

Flying Battery to Press Garden you can assume they just left the ship after defeating Eggman and it happened to be over Press Garden at the time. Stardust Speedway to Hydrocity, especially with them falling at the start, would seem they just jumped down from Little Planet to Angel Island, since with it floating so close to Lava Reef it must be chained to Angel Island this time..not the best explanation but better than nothing, plus Sonic has done it before at the end of Sonic CD, it also explains the move from Lava Reef to Metallic Madness, being so close to Lava Reef it is probably chained to the volcano perhaps? Titanic Monarch is likely being built on Little Planet, close to or perhaps in Metallic Madness so I can forgive that location move, however showing Sonic finding the base/large robot would have been a nice scene to have story wise tho. Hydrocity to Mirage Saloon has them riding the Tornado at the start so it's obviously how they got there, they did leave the plane on Angel Island didn't they, a scene showing Knuckles joining them wouldn't go amiss tho since he's just randomly there all of a sudden, and gone again just as quickly.

Oil Ocean to Lava Reef is the one that puzzles me the most. They are both on totally separate islands and show no connection. To me this is the one that is in most need for an added transition, even if it's just another teleporting scene with the Phantom Ruby.

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1 hour ago, Tenko said:

While I do think the zones missing transitions should have one, even a short one, Sonic 3 as well as Sonic & Knuckles had one for each stage so it seems odd having some without in Mania, as you said some are connected in ways you can assume without an actual scene.

Flying Battery to Press Garden you can assume they just left the ship after defeating Eggman and it happened to be over Press Garden at the time. Stardust Speedway to Hydrocity, especially with them falling at the start, would seem they just jumped down from Little Planet to Angel Island, since with it floating so close to Lava Reef it must be chained to Angel Island this time..not the best explanation but better than nothing, plus Sonic has done it before at the end of Sonic CD, it also explains the move from Lava Reef to Metallic Madness, being so close to Lava Reef it is probably chained to the volcano perhaps? Titanic Monarch is likely being built on Little Planet, close to or perhaps in Metallic Madness so I can forgive that location move, however showing Sonic finding the base/large robot would have been a nice scene to have story wise tho. Hydrocity to Mirage Saloon has them riding the Tornado at the start so it's obviously how they got there, they did leave the plane on Angel Island didn't they, a scene showing Knuckles joining them wouldn't go amiss tho since he's just randomly there all of a sudden, and gone again just as quickly.

Oil Ocean to Lava Reef is the one that puzzles me the most. They are both on totally separate islands and show no connection. To me this is the one that is in most need for an added transition, even if it's just another teleporting scene with the Phantom Ruby.

Well, as Sonic and Tails arena is just over the Knuckles one, both bosses take place in Hidden Palace... and I think that Sonic and Tails could have a same cutscene as Knuckles - warping to Metallic Madness.

As for Flying Battery to Press Garden they could just jump right to the chimney of the factory.

Stardust Speedway to Hydrocity... taking a rocket (similar to one found in level, but maybe larger) that would gave enough height to just be attracted by the land below instead of Little Planet.

Hydrocity to Mirage Saloon... same as Hydrocity to Marble Garden, but they would be in Angel Island and take the Tornado.

Oil Ocean to Lava Reef... I think that Eggman uses Lava Reef not only as a source of material for building Titanic Monarch (probably), but also as a source of heat that is transported to Oil Ocean by tubes.

And that´s kind of all.
 

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