Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

[MainJP]

4 hours ago, molul said:

Thanks! Wow, is there any footage of that demo?

The demo is still lost, unfortunately. Oshima dodged the question about if he had it.

[Tenko]

Dunno if it was brought up in another topic, but a keen eyed person on Twitter noticed that there's a reference to Sega Sonic Arcade in Mania too. Is there any classic era game not referenced in this beautiful game!!

 

[molul]

After so many references, I have to say that even though Sonic Mania is not the perfect classic game (by the way, I think there will never be a perfect game; for instance, I love Blue Spheres and many people hate it), is PERFECT as an anniversary title. It has lots of references to the old titles, not only Sonic 1, 2, 3&K and CD, but also Master System Sonic Games, Sonic R, SegaSonic... Seriously, there's so much work and passion put into this game, although many people will never appreciate it (fair enough if you're not a fan). So I'd say that Mania's goal has been reached.

If there's a new classic game after this, I wonder how will it manage not being a fan service, that is, not having to reference so many old games.

[superman43]

One note regarding the Sonic Mania sprites. I like the sprites for Tails and Knuckles as they look much more serious compared to 3&K. Mania Tails´ sprites also seem to add his self-confidence I should say. 

Only negative I found was using the skidding sprite for the second character during Phantom Ruby´s warping scenes.

It is pretty much ok with Tails being the second character as it looks like fear as well. But in "& Knuckles" mode or with modding the game and adding Sonic as the second character it looks way odd. Plus we should write Taxman to implement that missing animation for Tails in the beginning of Chemical Plant.

[Red Hot Jack]

Finally completed the game! I love how the Ruby messes up with the time counter during the final boss, and the whole boss is entertaining. Too bad you can't replay it unless you go through all of Titanic Monarch. And the special stages are... I think, my favorite part of the game, I had way more problems with 4 and 5 than the last two, incredible.

[molul]

Not being able to go directly to Egg Reverie is a pain. I wish they fixed that

1 hour ago, superman43 said:

One note regarding the Sonic Mania sprites. I like the sprites for Tails and Knuckles as they look much more serious compared to 3&K. Mania Tails´ sprites also seem to add his self-confidence I should say. 

Yes, especially Knuckles's sprites are simply perfect. I think Sonic's sprites from Sonic 3 would have fit the game even better. I mean, Sonic 3's Sonic sprites are like more "serious", or "mature", which is exactly how Knuckles's sprites look in Mania.

By the way, there are still some Super Sonic missing sprites (they used "normal" Sonic sprites with a color change).

[superman43]

2 hours ago, molul said:

I think Sonic's sprites from Sonic 3 would have fit the game even better. I mean, Sonic 3's Sonic sprites are like more "serious", or "mature", which is exactly how Knuckles's sprites look in Mania.

I don´t think that they were really needed. Mania Team did really good job in Sonic´s sprites. I always liked Sonic 1 sprites and Sonic 2 standing sprite. Sonic 3 had majority of sprites different from both 1 and 2 and they were not always better. With saying this, they probably could make an option between the running sprite in Mania and the Sonic 3 running sprite. That would be brilliant touch especially for Hydrocity moonwalk. 

2 hours ago, molul said:

By the way, there are still some Super Sonic missing sprites (they used "normal" Sonic sprites with a color change).

 I never had a problem with just recolored sprites instead of distinctive for Super Sonic but yes, it would be certainly another nice touch.

[Sean]

Oh man, I would definitely not trade Mania's sprites for anything. I like Sonic 3's sprites, probably more than most people, but the Sonic 1/CD look always felt more charming and cute, and I like how Mania injected the expressiveness of S3K's sprites into them.

[Indigo Rush]

I actively go out of my way to patch Sonic 3 Complete with the Sonic 2 spriteset lol

It's so much better looking. If hades ever freezes over and Sonic 3 Remastered is made, you'll hear no complaints from me if they change the sprites there, too.

[Diogenes]

3 hours ago, molul said:

I mean, Sonic 3's Sonic sprites are like more "serious", or "mature"

In what way, exactly? To me the biggest change between the 1/2/CD sprites and the 3&K sprites is that they made him a lot more round and soft.

Personally I'm glad they worked from the 1/2/CD sprites, I think the spikiness works a lot better than 3&K's roundness.

[molul]

24 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

In what way, exactly? To me the biggest change between the 1/2/CD sprites and the 3&K sprites is that they made him a lot more round and soft.

Personally I'm glad they worked from the 1/2/CD sprites, I think the spikiness works a lot better than 3&K's roundness.

Yes, I mean I find it more detailed, less "cartoony" (although obviously it's still a cartoony sprite, but it looks more expressive and detailed to my eyes).

Don't get me wrong, I love Mania sprites. But still, to me S3&K's were much better. But also Knuckles' sprites in Mania are better than S3&K's.

 

[Indigo Rush]

13 minutes ago, molul said:

 

Well, in Mobius they say - that Sonic's small hands grew three sizes that day. 

[Sean]

Okay why in the blazing oily fuck is the Oil Ocean 2 boss so god damn frustrating with Knuckles? I can do it no problem with Sonic and Tails, but give me a character with an ever so slightly lower jump height and all of a sudden it becomes total hell. Lost about eight to ten lives trying to do it, and a couple times I managed to beat Eggman immediately before a stray bullet catches me off guard with zero rings and I die simultaneously

[molul]

1 hour ago, Indigo Rush said:

Well, in Mobius they say - that Sonic's small hands grew three sizes that day. 

Hands, legs and feet are bigger, yes XD

Btw, never noticed that hands look different in Sonic 2 sprites, from standing to starting to run. In Sonic 3 the hands look consistent in both sprites.

I like Sonic's mouth, hands, legs and shoes much more in Sonic 3, definitely. But hey, it's just a personal thing

[Blue Blood]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

Okay why in the blazing oily fuck is the Oil Ocean 2 boss so god damn frustrating with Knuckles? I can do it no problem with Sonic and Tails, but give me a character with an ever so slightly lower jump height and all of a sudden it becomes total hell. Lost about eight to ten lives trying to do it, and a couple times I managed to beat Eggman immediately before a stray bullet catches me off guard with zero rings and I die simultaneously

You know what would make that fight ten times better? If the platforms didn't have have overhanging ledges that could crush you, and that would also let Knuckes climb up. I think it's a bit of a shame that Knuckles' poor jump height doesn't come into play more in Mania, because when done right it can make his game that much more difficult without being unfair. OOZ2Boss is unfair though. It's essentially just an incredibly pumped up version of the original, so it shouldn't see such a massive dip in fairness.

[JezMM]

I definitely think just one change would make OOZ's boss bearable - make rings bounce off the oil (at a good height too).  It's so hard to recover ANY at all that basically you only get two hit points for it unless you brought a shield - which you can only really do once, if I recall the area immediately before the last checkpoint has no shields and is not very receptive to backtracking.

[CleverSonicUsername]

7 hours ago, Sean said:

Okay why in the blazing oily fuck is the Oil Ocean 2 boss so god damn frustrating with Knuckles? I can do it no problem with Sonic and Tails, but give me a character with an ever so slightly lower jump height and all of a sudden it becomes total hell. Lost about eight to ten lives trying to do it, and a couple times I managed to beat Eggman immediately before a stray bullet catches me off guard with zero rings and I die simultaneously

If you haven't by now, wait until you hit Titanic Monarch Act 1's boss with him.

[Sean]

You mean the boss that's literally impossible to beat with Knuckles in the original? Can't wait

[Jango]

It really is! Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Knuckles' jump always lower than Sonic/Tails'? FFS, this is stupid, no matter if he can glide or not. Some situations can become frustrating.

[expansivelovestories]

11 hours ago, Indigo Rush said:

I actively go out of my way to patch Sonic 3 Complete with the Sonic 2 spriteset lol

It's so much better looking. If hades ever freezes over and Sonic 3 Remastered is made, you'll hear no complaints from me if they change the sprites there, too.

Yes; very much agreed!  The Sonic 3 version is wonderful as a pixel art rendition of Sonic, but, it somehow does not fit nicely in the space of the graphics of the environments themselves, maybe it is specifically the pupils appearing half the original size.  

It is possible that many members of the Mania team thought similarly to you, that the Sonic 3 version was in some ways a misstep that they could absolutely correct!! 

[Blue Blood]

7 hours ago, Sean said:

You mean the boss that's literally impossible to beat with Knuckles in the original? Can't wait

I believe he's lower this time. Knuckles can hit him, but it's hard to do so without taking a hit. If you're anything like me, you'll just cheese it using your invincibility frames during the first phase. This would have been an ample opportunity for a spiked platform or another potential hazard to help you reach the boss, ala Marble Garden 1.

6 hours ago, Jango said:

It really is! Correct me if I'm wrong, but was Knuckles' jump always lower than Sonic/Tails'? FFS, this is stupid, no matter if he can glide or not. Some situations can become frustrating.

You've never noticed? Knuckles' lower jump height in S3K is what forces him to take different routes half the time. The best example is probably Marble Garden 2, or even the S2 final boss becoming incredibly difficult with him. Knuckles having a low jump height is absolutely fine by me because it's a simple way to add a drawback to a character with otherwise OP aerial movement. Mania could just play on it more.

[Sean]

Ah yeah I just cheesed the boss with Super Knuckles, didn't want another Oil Ocean 2 situation on my Knux playthrough tbh

 

Also something I learned just now that I'm sure others have already discovered, is that you can access Knuckles' version of Mirage Saloon 1 with Sonic via the dev menu. The cool part, though? You can actually beat it, since you have Tails at your disposal to carry you up and over gaps. It makes for an interesting challenge.

[superman43]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

Also something I learned just now that I'm sure others have already discovered, is that you can access Knuckles' version of Mirage Saloon 1 with Sonic via the dev menu. The cool part, though? You can actually beat it, since you have Tails at your disposal to carry you up and over gaps. It makes for an interesting challenge.

I did that 2 days ago. Quite interesting... the stage itself is easy to beat as Tails only, a little bit of challenge for Sonic and Tails and impossible for Sonic. 

I am happy that you can actually continue with normal act 2 on PC, but I would probably put there a little bit of code that would actually enable Sonic and/or Tails in act 2 from Knuckles´ loading spot.

[Sonictrainer]

Quote

In Act 2 of Sonic Mania’s Press Garden Zone, the player can become frozen in a block of ice, but they won’t animate. Hidden inside the game are some unused animations where they would look around and blink.

 

[superman43]

Have anyone noticed that after Spider Mobile boss Eggman escapes with jet pack in a similar way as after Palmtree Panic boss battle in Sonic CD ? In both games it is the only occasion.