Sonic Mania SPOILERS/Impressions Thread

[superman43]

Some fooling around in Metallic Madness.

Apparently, if you press Debug at a set frame, the character will end up being... well, shorter. Tails looks kind of ehm... more cute, maybe ? Act 1 does it when you go to the background layer.

[Pawn]

On 24/09/2017 at 10:17 PM, Sonictrainer said:

I don't think I can handle Classic Knuckles happy face.

Sonic looks more like he's wincing at the pairing with Eggman than angry. It's a shame it didn't end up in the game somewhere.

[molul]

Has this unused boss been already commented?

I totally love it. I'd swap it for a few bosses in the game

[Salamander]

I hadn't seen that yet!  A version of Gapsule based on the inverted, flying Prison Eggs was something I'd been hoping for, so seeing that they actually prototyped exactly that is really cool.

[TheOcelot]

Stealth updated his tumblr. Gave a little bit of info about the unused Studiopolis boss:

Quote

Sonic Mania!

It’s been a crazy ride, and the response has just been fantastic! I’m glad that so many people like this game so much! If it has to be said, I certainly would like to do another if the opportunity arises

There’s some standard stuff.. although I worked on this game for Sega, that doesn’t mean they’re involved with or endorse anything else I do, anything I say or do here is something I’m saying or doing personally and not Sega, blah blah blah

It’s out there, too - people have opened it up and had a look inside already. NDA is a thing so I can’t get super-specific on some things, but I would like to talk a bit about some stuff people have already found

First up is the “Egg Janken” boss. Two words, probably confused by the lack of spaces in any filenames. Without getting too detailed, it was one of a number of concepts we had very early-on, and as things do, its design, function, and place in the game sort of evolved over the course of nailing down the project design. Its name “Janken” is indeed as some know, the name of the Japanese form of “Rock Paper Scissors”, which is the game it plays with you to determine who gets hurt. Some people have commented that “you always get hit”, but actually the object was meant to be placed higher than in any demonstration to-date. Specifically, around 16 pixels higher than the most recent video demonstration as of this writing. It’s also been speculated that the pattern is random, but this is only true on the final hit as a “panic” maneuver - the patterns for the first two hits are indeed very predictable (although different from each other). As I’ve mentioned in an interview somewhere, the very first level we created was actually an early version of Studiopolis Zone Act 2, which is what we initially showed to Sega, and how some of its elements ended up in the reveal trailer. I implemented this boss for demonstration in that act - the first boss ever implemented in this game. Not bad for just-then learning to use a new version of the engine, eh?

Next, there are the “SP500” printer objects, fictional upgraded relatives of the Sega SP400 “plotter printer” for early SC computers. Incidentally, I also implemented one of those - the ink-using version. That version, in particular, has some additional functionality that I don’t think anyone has worked out yet.. It’s a little complicated, but I’ll tell you this - it involves another one of the tile planes. To a lesser degree, there’s also the “Acetone” object which I don’t think anyone has connected with this group..

Also in a recent interview, I mentioned that the functionality of some bosses had evolved throughout development. It’s a bit of a tricky setup, but you might just be able to find an earlier incarnation of one of them that didn’t quite pan out. You’ve already found the original arena!

Well, I’ve had my fun.. anything else remains a mystery

At least until, I dunno, a week from next Tuesday? Maybe not.. could be confusing

 

32 minutes ago, molul said:

I guess we can say goodbye to the missing cutscenes. Such a shame they didn't want to give the latest touch to the game

Yeah, agreed. Having only half the story sucks. By the sound of Stealth's post on tumblr he's moved on from Mania, which adds to my belief the missing transitions won't be patched in.

Mania has still got lots of glitches, so if it's not patched again that I'll be disappointed.

[PKGaming]

Sooo I guess Arin didn't like Sonic Mania after all...?

[molul]

14 hours ago, TheOcelot said:

Well, I’ve had my fun.. anything else remains a mystery

At least until, I dunno, a week from next Tuesday? Maybe not.. could be confusing

Hmmmm I wonder what this means...

Seriously, the missing cutscenes make no sense. How much time would need to be spent? I don't get it

[NikoS]

So, now that more than a month passed since the game first released, i have a question and if someone have a proper answer i would appreciate it like, A LOT

does someone know what happened to the SEEEGAAA jingle recorded prior to forces reveal waay back in the 25th anniversary party? --->https://youtu.be/CGoQaSt6km8

they said that it would be a easter egg in the game, i first thought it would be replacing the SEGA chant at the start of the game, but i was proved wrong, so, is it VERY HIDDEN somewhere in the game or was it forgotten/scrapped? (or was it intended to never be used?)

[rosedust]

yo i wanna play this but my steam is literally saying "steam api not working" or some stupid thing. i paid 17 whole DOLLARS for this thing! i can't.

[TheOcelot]

IGN article. E-mail interview with Taxman:

Quote

“Our approach to references was always 'game first,' including them only when they aligned with Zone gimmicks/decorations/locations that we had already planned,” game director Christian Whitehead said in an email interview with IGN.

Reflecting on the game’s success and fans’ reactions to Sonic Mania since its launch, Whitehead noted how the response to Studiopolis' reveal in 2016  “spurred us on further to have fun with these deep cuts.” These “deep cuts” still had to make sense to the fiction of the world, though. So despite Whitehead jokingly suggesting Axel from Streets of Rage early on, he knew the character’s human look didn’t mesh with the rest of the game.

 

 

“The Mean Bean Machine boss was probably the most complex boss to create, since it was essentially a game within a game,” Whitehead explained. “I spent some time researching the rules of the game and replicated them in the engine, getting the core chain mechanic and scoring system working.”

While Whitehead said at first the boss’ design “was a really dumb random input generator,” the help of the team’s programmer Hunter Bridges led to a more robust AI, which allowed them to even include Mean Bean Machine as an unlockable mode.

Whitehead was "not really expecting [the boss] to get approval from Sonic Team, since it was a different license, but they thought the idea was funny" and looked into helping Whitehead make it gel with the Chemical Plant world.

“The 'Amoeba Droid' chemical mini boss in Act 1 was already an evolution on the type of boss the original Sonic 2 Zone had, so Act 2's boss needed to use chemicals in another way that was distinct, yet fun,” Whitehead said. “...The idea of different colored chemicals with various properties was already decided upon for Chemical Plant Act 2, so I just had a moment where it clicked and thought "What if those colored chemicals were being used to make Mean Beans?"

 

 

“Even better was a bug we noticed in the ending; where 3 independent Knuckleses would escape the explosion together," Whitehead said. "This bug became a feature, and we made a new 'true' ending to celebrate it with some help from the lovely Tyson Hesse."

Sonic Mania’s many secrets are owed to the depth of Sonic knowledge Whitehead said the team shared. That knowledge paid off in remixing old levels, because Whitehead said the team aimed “to surprise players, simultaneously celebrating and eschewing nostalgia to make the returning classic stages memorable for entirely different reasons.”

 

[molul]

Mean Bean Machine boss is an awesome effort indeed. I imagined they had to program it from scratch. Bravo! Now that's part of the Retro Engine forever

[Tenko]

It's possibly been posted elsewhere, but the Tokyo Game Show interview with Iizuka when translated seems to confirm what we had all surmised, that there will be a connection between Mania and Forces that will be made more obvious when Forces launches.

I hope getting Mania out with ample time between it and Forces because of this connection isn't what caused all that content to be cut. That would just be Sega going back to it's old ways that it swore to us in a public announcement that it was done with...

http://nintendoeverything.com/sega-teases-some-sort-of-connection-between-sonic-forces-and-sonic-mania/

[Indigo Rush]

I really like this game. If you told me there would be no other Sonic game to come out after this one, I'd be satisfied. The Sonic fan within me wouldn't need anything else.

This is a high note.

[DiamondX]

(Because the review would be pretty long, I decided to make it in 3 parts. I'll make the other two tomorrow.)

 

I got and finished this game last week and I wanted to post my thoughts on the game. But first, I want to adress something.

My history with Classic Sonic.

Unlike some of you guys, the games that got me into Sonic were Colors and Generations. So you could definetly say I'm a 3D Sonic fan. That doesn't mean I never played Clasisc games before.

I mean I did, but barely...

I played around half of Sonic 1 on my phone. (Up to Starlight Zone or how it's called)

Didn't even touch Sonic 2.

Played the Sonic CD demo on my phone.

Played the first act of Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

"You really don't appreciate the classics then."

I do, but they kinda bored me. I liked the new graphics that Colors and Generations had, not this.

But what about Mania?

I liked it! Really, really liked it! It was a great game, a great Sonic game. But not my favourite.

My top 3 would be someting like this:

1. Colors

2. Generations

3. Mania

(These are all the 3 Sonic games I've ever completed)

Now, I want to discuss about each zone one by one.

Green Hill Zone

I'm not really sure what to say about it. It's a great first level, but there isn't much to say. It's great for it to not introduce gimmicks since it's at the start of the game. The bosses were easy too.

And after you finished the game, Green Hill is a great zone to farm lives and Chaos Emeralds.

Chemical Plant Zone

I don't like it. At all. I just can't like it. The underwater sections are annoying, the whole different-colored chemical was annoying and the act 2 boss was annoying.

No, it's not a fun refference to me, it's annoying because he defeated me on the first try. He somehow managed to keep making combos while I couldn't.

Studiopolis Zone

Now this is a great zone. Here you  have grear music, great level design. It's fun. 

Both bosses were great. While the Heavy Gunner was a more serious fight, the EGG TV one was a complete joke.

And the buzzing sound on the TV at the end was great.

[superman43]

5 hours ago, Limit Breaker Diamond said:

Chemical Plant Zone

I don't like it. At all. I just can't like it. The underwater sections are annoying, the whole different-colored chemical was annoying and the act 2 boss was annoying.

No, it's not a fun refference to me, it's annoying because he defeated me on the first try. He somehow managed to keep making combos while I couldn't.

That´s surprising to me, as Eggman is really dumb there. What I can agree on is that the act 2 boss, the MBM/Puyo Puyo is kind of first surprise, but not really interesting in repeated gameplays. As for underwater sections, if you master the most upper route, you will avoid the water in act 1. 

[Baconjack]

Finally finished Mania just tonight (school has kicked my ass in the two months I have owned it), and have a lot to say about it:

Positives

• On the whole, it is a great game. One of the strongest Sonic games I've played. Well presented with an engine that functions just like the classics.
• Soundtrack is excellent. One of the best Sonic soundtracks I've heard in a while.
• Spot-on controls. I played the entire game with a Mega Drive controller for authenticity's sake, and it didn't just function similar to the classics, it improved on them, with the 60fps frame rate.
• Great visuals. Obviously, one of the strongest points of Sonic games are the visuals, but these, despite being designed to look 16 bit, are great looking.
• Game has lots of content for the price. For a $20 game, this game has a lot for that price.
• I quite liked the level design of the game, as there were quite a few paths that rewarded you for exploration (the submarine things on Oil Ocean Act 2 are an example of this). However, this was compromised by how much automation some of the levels had.

Negatives

• Automation, especially in Hydrocity, Oil Ocean, Stardust Speedway and the original levels. Look, you could argue that this automation is 'paying homage to the level', but I don't give two shits. Saying that is like coating a turd in rainbow sprinkles. One of my first Sonic games, and my favourite Sonic game is Sonic 2, and I don't remember any automation in that game, Sonic 1 or even Sonic 3 & Knuckles. On most of the levels, springs were in abundance.
• It's not an Adventure game. It's a classic game. Pull your head in and design levels that aren't 50% automated like some of Mania's levels were.
• Some of the bosses in the game were poorly designed. Stardust Speedway Act 2's Metal Sonic fight was one of them. Metal Sonic during the first leg of the fight could just fly in out of nowhere and catch you out. The second leg of the fight was annoying. Way too many things to focus on at one time, with the little Sonics, the bullets flying at you, and trying to get the little Sonic at just the right angle to get the boss.
• Sometimes, you may get bullshit deaths in the game. I managed to lose a life in the game being spiked by a dropping spike platform yet I did not stand anywhere near it. Obviously, I played this game relatively recklessly, but bullshit deaths are infuriating.
• Hate to complain about this, but the new/old level ratio. Only 4 new zones? And the picking, while generally very good, put me off in some places:
• Green Hill for the millionth time. That level is picked so much that none of the other Sonic 1 levels have ever been remade, not counting the levels inspired by Green Hill. Sega, remaking Green Hill is like beating a dead horse. Fans got tired of it after Generations.
• Chemical Plant for the same reason. I'm starting to grow tired of Chemical Plant constantly appearing in Sonic games.
• Also, while I'm on this subject, where's Ice Cap or Palmtree Panic?

[superman43]

2 hours ago, Sir Laptop said:

Finally finished Mania just tonight (school has kicked my ass in the two months I have owned it), and have a lot to say about it:

Positives

• On the whole, it is a great game. One of the strongest Sonic games I've played. Well presented with an engine that functions just like the classics.
• Soundtrack is excellent. One of the best Sonic soundtracks I've heard in a while.
• Spot-on controls. I played the entire game with a Mega Drive controller for authenticity's sake, and it didn't just function similar to the classics, it improved on them, with the 60fps frame rate.
• Great visuals. Obviously, one of the strongest points of Sonic games are the visuals, but these, despite being designed to look 16 bit, are great looking.
• Game has lots of content for the price. For a $20 game, this game has a lot for that price.
• I quite liked the level design of the game, as there were quite a few paths that rewarded you for exploration (the submarine things on Oil Ocean Act 2 are an example of this). However, this was compromised by how much automation some of the levels had.

Negatives

• Automation, especially in Hydrocity, Oil Ocean, Stardust Speedway and the original levels. Look, you could argue that this automation is 'paying homage to the level', but I don't give two shits. Saying that is like coating a turd in rainbow sprinkles. One of my first Sonic games, and my favourite Sonic game is Sonic 2, and I don't remember any automation in that game, Sonic 1 or even Sonic 3 & Knuckles. On most of the levels, springs were in abundance.
• It's not an Adventure game. It's a classic game. Pull your head in and design levels that aren't 50% automated like some of Mania's levels were.
• Some of the bosses in the game were poorly designed. Stardust Speedway Act 2's Metal Sonic fight was one of them. Metal Sonic during the first leg of the fight could just fly in out of nowhere and catch you out. The second leg of the fight was annoying. Way too many things to focus on at one time, with the little Sonics, the bullets flying at you, and trying to get the little Sonic at just the right angle to get the boss.
• Sometimes, you may get bullshit deaths in the game. I managed to lose a life in the game being spiked by a dropping spike platform yet I did not stand anywhere near it. Obviously, I played this game relatively recklessly, but bullshit deaths are infuriating.
• Hate to complain about this, but the new/old level ratio. Only 4 new zones? And the picking, while generally very good, put me off in some places:
• Green Hill for the millionth time. That level is picked so much that none of the other Sonic 1 levels have ever been remade, not counting the levels inspired by Green Hill. Sega, remaking Green Hill is like beating a dead horse. Fans got tired of it after Generations.
• Chemical Plant for the same reason. I'm starting to grow tired of Chemical Plant constantly appearing in Sonic games.
• Also, while I'm on this subject, where's Ice Cap or Palmtree Panic?

1) Hydrocity Act 2 in Mania is first 25% new and the rest is exactly the original. Oil Ocean Act 1 was a lot automated even in Sonic 2... and Act 2... I see there automation, but still... it´s impressive. Stardust Speedway Act 1 is really less automated than the original Past settings in CD. Act 2 is automated just because of the Metal Sonic boss in a separate setting connected with the Act 2 plus the "get to the teleporter in less than 1 minute" trophy.

2) I can´t really figure out which level was automated more than 50% other than those mentioned in 1)

3) The Metal Sonic fight wasn´t that bad. But I have to agree that the first part and the setting after the second part were a bit too long (they could very well be of half the length). Yes, the second part is a bit... tricky for the first time, as you can´t really figure out what to do.

4) Retro Engine have some unforgiving collision, that´s something that original classic games had done better.

5) At least they weren´t the HD copies of zones as in Generations. Even though Green Hill was here for XXXth time, the background change made it better. Yes, there is a thing that the main route in Mania Act 1 was essentially Act 1 + Act 2 of original and the 1st half of Mania Act 2 is essentially Act 3 up to where you would expect boss fight. Same with Chemical Plant Act 1. Chemical Plant Act 2 was a real improvement of the level theme.

 

Don´t get me wrong, but Palmtree Panic ? Really ? It´s probably the most forgettable CD zone. Sonic 1 had Green Hill as best and then probably Scrap Brain. Sonic CD had cool zones... but some awful gimmicks... yes, Wacky Workbench floor.

[Tenko]

http://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2017-10-23-sonic-mania-and-its-impact-on-the-future-of-the-sonic-series

This was a recent pretty interesting interview, it seems we were right and the overall philosophy for creating Mania and Forces was to try please everyone.

What's even more interesting is that they seem to have taken proper notice of the positive reception and the high scores for Mania. Even mentioning that it's possible if Forces works out as well that they would like to continue releasing content to please both camps in this way.

[Zippo]

Random but does anyone remember at the 25th Anniversary livestream where the audience's voices weee recorded for the "SEGA!" chant for Mania supposedly? What happened to that?

[superman43]

Nobody mentioned the "Project Plus" here yet...  

[molul]

12 hours ago, superman43 said:

Nobody mentioned the "Project Plus" here yet...  

What's that?

[TheOcelot]

10 hours ago, molul said:

What's that?

A new test branch appeared on SteamDB with the description "Project Plus":
https://steamdb.info/app/584400/depots/

In other words, it looks like a new version of Mania is coming to Steam. What this version will include is anyones guess. Bug fixes/missing cutscene-transitions? DLC? Perhaps a new version of Mania which includes the mobile remasters?

[molul]

Wow, cool. It would be awesome if this was related to a mobile release.

[superman43]

2 hours ago, TheOcelot said:

In other words, it looks like a new version of Mania is coming to Steam. What this version will include is anyones guess. Bug fixes/missing cutscene-transitions? DLC? Perhaps a new version of Mania which includes the mobile remasters?

 

1 hour ago, molul said:

Wow, cool. It would be awesome if this was related to a mobile release.

I hope it is just the missing cutscenes. That would make me a bit more happy.

[expansivelovestories]

Yes; it seems that, while it is not possible to figure out even vaguely the nature of the project being made, that it is visible and given an intriguing name is not a mistake. 

I definitely don't think BY THE MANIA FOR THE MANIA has stopped having importance to the team, especially now that by reaching so many new people, it is a larger, more enthusiastic as well as appreciative and accomodating mania than it already was before, and specifically focused towards 2D Sonic in this current style!!