Sonic Mania Reviews/Impressions Thread

[Milo]

Review metascore update for Mania Plus (compared to the original Mania):

Opencritic:
Mania - 87 (84 scored reviews, 91 reviews total)
Mania Plus - 88 (29 scored reviews, 31 reviews total)

Metacritic:
Mania - 86 (PS4 - 70 reviews; NSW - 21 reviews)
Mania Plus - 90 (Switch - 15 reviews); 87 (PS4 - 18 reviews)

GameRankings:
Mania - 87.02% (PS4 - 40 reviews), 85.73% (NSW - 11 reviews)
Mania Plus - 90% (NSW - 7 reviews), 86.36% (PS4 - 11 reviews)

The Switch version of Mania Plus garnering a 90+ metascore is an absolute rarity for Sonic games--the iOS version of Taxman's 2011 Sonic CD remake (93 on MC) is the only other Sonic game to achieve this feat.

[Blue Blood]

So is Mania a good game then? Because it's starting to sound like Mania might be a good game.

[molul]

It's a great and cheap game, for sure. 

[Red Hot Jack]

I'm starting to like Encore Mode more than Mania mode honestly, not because of the palettes and little level design change, it's the lives system and character switching that makes it more interesting, plus I don't mind the bonus stage, it's a great way of obtaining characters.

[Iko]

I want to leave my opinion on Mania Plus.

I've never been a fan of Mania, for several reasons... I enjoyed it and liked it a bit, though it's far from my ideal Sonic game, and there are a lot of reasons why I'm not a big fan of it, reason that I already listed a lot in the past and I don't feel like repeating now.

This time I want to focus on the positive things introduced by Mania Plus:

The Encore mode is the best thing in the game, and it's the only thing in it that finally includes some decent innovations.

First of all, the new playable characters: while I don't like Mighty very much as it seems just a tweaked Sonic with special properties (the stomp don't feel unique at all, especially since Modern Sonic already explored that gimmick in many different ways and the bubble shield is in the game too), I'm impressed by how good Ray plays! Let me explain:

In concept, he's a rip-off of Cape Mario, ok... but a good one! It's so precise and simple to use that you can do several tricks and even cheat a bit in some sections, in a fun way.

I love how when you release the button, he turns back into a ball and does damage again, this is one of the reasons why I prefered Cream over Tails in the Advance series (she could stop flying and damage enemies from above), and Ray does it too, in an even more effective way; getting closer to the enemies and releasing the glide as late as possible is a form of risk-reward that feels very satisfying to the player (or, at least, me).

Secondarily, this is a problem I had with the old version of Mania. As a fan of the Advance series, I had the problem that Mania didn't offer enough freedom to the player; While in the Advance games you have several options at the same time, and you may chose different moves to go through the same piece of level design (tricks, air dash, roll, run, etc), in Mania there was just 1 effective way to go through each part of a level, every other way would slow you down; so as a player I was forced to play the game as intened by the developers (exploration aside), without many chances to be creative, and I didn't find it that fun. Ray scraps this flaw completely. You finally have options again! He can gain speed on land and in air, he can even break automation in some places (similar to Knuckles, though Knuckles is a lot slower and awkward, Ray is not); you can really exploit his glide in many creative ways.

My only problem with him is his victory animation, I hate it, it's extremely annoying.

Spoiler

I think that his glide should stay in Sonic's gameplay even in future games, because it's simply too good. Many may disagree with me, though I'm a fan of Modern games more than Classic ones, and I think this could be easily adapted to modern games as well.

Now, just some rough concepts without much thought into them:

Many characters in the series are able to glide, even Sonic himself has been able to do it (in pretty much all the Boost games and Lost World too), but it has always been limited to scripted sections. I think that most characters, such as Sonic, Knuckles, and even Tails, should get a glide move (maybe assign it to a specific button, a trigger maybe, so the jump button can be used for other stuff such as homing attack and other special moves), though it should behave differently for each character: Sonic should be able to get a small horizontal dash that depends on his actual speed at the start of the glide (see the air dash in Advance 2), then his glide should only allow him to fall a bit more slowly than usual, like in the Modern games: no height gain. Knuckles should be similar to Ray, with the exception that he is heavier and can't gain too much height, he's invincible in front of him thanks to his punches, and he doesn't curl into a ball when he stops gliding (Sonic too), though he does if he is still gliding the moment of the landing and has enough horizontal momentum to keep rolling. Tails would fly with his tails instead of gliding, allowing the player to use the up and down buttons to control his height (in case of 2D), and the jump button to perform aerial actions (I dunno, maybe a dash in the selected direction - that would consume his stamina faster), or simply, the directions to move, and the jump button to gain height (in case of 3D). Then Ray can still be unique, because he's the only one who can gain height and a lot of speed by gliding, and he's the only one who curls into a ball when releasing the glide button, so he's definitely the one who can take the most advantage from the move. This would get rid of Tails and Knuckles' outdated fly&glide skills that were already outdated before, but became completely obsolete the moment Ray was released.

Now, let's talk about the lives system:

I've always been a supporter of "lives in videogames are outdated".

I absolutely love the new lives system where each life is a different character! Well, many years ago, I was planning to work on a Mario fangame (an utopic project that never started, but I made up a lot of concepts for it); it was set into an island that due to a curse, became all made of candies; since the curse was still active, Mario and friends were transformed into chocolate statues and were unable to move (Majin Buu style); Mario would later be transformed back to normal by a star fallen from the sky who had the power to cancel the curse... in that game, the lives were going to be replaced with the characters, who you would find hidden in levels and save with the power of the friendly star; each time you lost a live, that character would have been transformed into chocolate again and you would have needed to find him back. It's basically the same thing as the Encore mode of Sonic Mania! (with a lore explanation).

So far (as far as I know), only the Subspace Emissary from Smash Bros Brawl used a similar lives system, and even that wasn't the same thing, there was no way to gain the lost characters back and sooner or later you would have met a gameover.

The one used in Encore Mode is just perfect, and it's a shame that no other games ever used a similar system so far, as lives are so outdated in modern gaming.

Being able to switch between two characters is also nice, it saves a lot of time that normally you would spend by replaying the level from the start with a different character; this way instead you just change it in real time. Too bad that you can't select all of them freely, only 2 of them at time, and you must rely on random stuff to change them.

It's also nice that when you lose a character, you continue playing from where you lost, and even if you lose both characters, you start from the checkpoint with no delays, suddenly; that's in line with Sonic's game philosophy that even if you are hit you should still be able to continue playing with no interruptions.

Sadly the system is still unpolished, and it happens at times that you die once, but you lose 2 or 3 characters at time instead, because they spawn in positions where they are already dead before even joining. This usually happens with bottomless pits and crushing traps, or moving screen sections (Metal Sonic Kai especially).

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Final thought:

My opinion on Sonic Mania has not changed much, I still prefer the franchise to go in a different direction and to not get stuck in the past, no matter how good or bad it was; though, Ray and the new lives system are good innovations that go through the right direction, and I appreciate that. The franchise needs more of this, we need new stuff, not old ones.

[Red Hot Jack]

There is nothing wrong with a classic series if it runs parallel to the modern one, and it's a sub-series, it's not the ONLY direction the series takes. The Modern series needs to reinvent itself and not rely on the past, but these nostalgia games? Nothing wrong with it.

[Iko]

19 minutes ago, Drifting Jack said:

There is nothing wrong with a classic series if it runs parallel to the modern one, and it's a sub-series, it's not the ONLY direction the series takes. The Modern series needs to reinvent itself and not rely on the past, but these nostalgia games? Nothing wrong with it.

My problem with a classic series is that its existence basically makes it incredibly unlikely to get modern 2D games like Advance or Rush, because 2D = Classic; staying into the classic context puts huge constraints to the gameplay and the characters cast.

Anyway, Encore Mode is the proof that you can stay classic and still put innovation into it. Now, if only it had original levels, and every character including Sonic was as fun as Ray...

[BlueFlare]

2 hours ago, Iko said:

My problem with a classic series is that its existence basically makes it incredibly unlikely to get modern 2D games like Advance or Rush, because 2D = Classic; staying into the classic context puts huge constraints to the gameplay and the characters cast.

Anyway, Encore Mode is the proof that you can stay classic and still put innovation into it. Now, if only it had original levels, and every character including Sonic was as fun as Ray...

How would you classify Advance series more 'modern'  compared to Mania? Or Rush since it has boost and is more linear than Mania. Just curious.

Sonic Mania was probably seen as obvious success after Sega's latest entries being Sonic 4. I could see Mania going visually more modern but it is not  necessity to be attractive. Or do you mean going modern gameplay wise? 

[Iko]

32 minutes ago, BlueFlare said:

How would you classify Advance series more 'modern'  compared to Mania? Or Rush since it has boost and is more linear than Mania. Just curious.

Sonic Mania was probably seen as obvious success after Sega's latest entries being Sonic 4. I could see Mania going visually more modern but it is not  necessity to be attractive. Or do you mean going modern gameplay wise? 

I'd like to not continue this discussion too much because I think it's off topic...

Anyway, since you asked: I mean modern context; I don't care much of the art style, as I like both Modern and Classic, and gameplay wise, I think the basics should be taken from Classic in any case, since they simply play better (not necessarily an 1:1 recreation, but as close as possible).

What I mean is, a game based on the modern world, with the full cast of characters and where all the events of the games from Sonic 3 to Forces happend.

This way you can experiment (for example) with Silver's telekinesis in a classic-esque gameplay, and maybe it could come out something interesting. Or Big's fishing rod, or Infinite's illusions, or Cream's chao, or Jet's hoverboard, or anything you can think of. There are many characters who can offer creative gameplay ideas in a 2D game. Also, I'd like the gameplay to not be limited to just 1 button, as I think some characters may benefit from an additional button (think of Advance 1 Amy).

The only character from the Classic universe I'm really interested in playing as, is Fang/Nack, everyone else is from the Modern timeline, and being a classic game cuts them out automatically.

In a modern setting you can also experiment with Sonic's moveset a lot more than in a classic game, since in a classic game you must stay as close as possible to his original moveset.

I honestly wouldn't mind a spiritual successor to the Advance series made by Christian Whitehead and his team, though I'm not sure if they are open at working on games based on the Modern universe; also, I'd prefer HD graphics over retro pixelated stuff (even hand drawn sprites if anything).

EDIT: to reply to your question more directly, I think the Advance Series is modern because it uses the modern cast of characters and it's set in the up-to-date (at the time) canon instead of being a back in time story. Sonic 4 is a strange case, it's something in-between... it basically takes the worst of both worlds.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

So many modern sonic fans list their problems with the direction of classic/mania....and these "problems" only amount to:

"Well, it's not modern. I want modern stuff. It's just classic nostalgia" (as if nostalgia for sonic adventure isn't prevalent)

That is not a fundamental problem, it is a preference. There is absolutely nothing wrong with SEGA using classic sonic and classic gameplay/aesthetics and building on that moving forward, especially if it continues to sell and review well. You just dont want it because it's not modern (which is understandable if you're a modern fan). Again, preference doesn't not mean something is fundamentally broken or problematic. It's definitely ok to have preferences and favorites but dont push them as "problems" when they're not. A problem is something that is fundamentally broken about the game, which mania does not really have.

[Iko]

1 hour ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

So many modern sonic fans list their problems with the direction of classic/mania....and these "problems" only amount to:

"Well, it's not modern. I want modern stuff. It's just classic nostalgia" (as if nostalgia for sonic adventure isn't prevalent)

That is not a fundamental problem, it is a preference. There is absolutely nothing wrong with SEGA using classic sonic and classic gameplay/aesthetics and building on that moving forward, especially if it continues to sell and review well. You just dont want it because it's not modern (which is understandable if you're a modern fan). Again, preference doesn't not mean something is fundamentally broken or problematic. It's definitely ok to have preferences and favorites but dont push them as "problems" when they're not. A problem is something that is fundamentally broken about the game, which mania does not really have.

I agree with you, though it's not my case.

In my review I mostly listed what I liked of Encore mode and I didn't talk about the "problems", aside of a couple of exceptions directly related to my arguments (such as the fact that you may lose 2 or 3 characters because they spawn already dead).

I'm not a modern fan, I like both classic and modern, it's just that I prefer the modern side of the franchise because while I grew up with the classics, I really became a Sonic fan after Sonic Adventure 2 and I'm more fond of the modern side of the franchise (well, more than modern, the Dreamcast/Advance era); but I like classics as well.

I never stated being Classic as a "problem", in fact I said "I still prefer the franchise to go in a different direction", so it's obvious that it's my preference.

What I consider a problem of Mania, if anything, it's the lack of innovation, which was kinda fixed with the Plus add-on (mostly the new concepts introduced in the Encore mode), as I said in my review.

EDIT: To be clear, when I say "I have a problem with", "My problem" I don't mean it's an actual problem, but something that bugs me, so it's still something personal.

[Red Hot Jack]

4 hours ago, Iko said:

My problem with a classic series is that its existence basically makes it incredibly unlikely to get modern 2D games like Advance or Rush, because 2D = Classic; staying into the classic context puts huge constraints to the gameplay and the characters cast.

Anyway, Encore Mode is the proof that you can stay classic and still put innovation into it. Now, if only it had original levels, and every character including Sonic was as fun as Ray...

Yeah I know you love Advance and Rush... the answer is... have 2D sections in Modern games, which everyone despises, because they are unnecessary according to them, but in this case with multiple characters. Or maybe add Amy in another classic title (Mania 2 as a direct sequel is unlikely). As for me, I'd rather have a full 3D title this time, 2D took too much space in Forces. Advance and Rush formulas are dead sadly unless they decide to hire Dimps again for more handheld companions to the main games, but I doubt they'd do that, and honestly I don't want Dimps in Sonic anymore.

[Multikaris]

40 minutes ago, Drifting Jack said:

Yeah I know you love Advance and Rush... the answer is... have 2D sections in Modern games, which everyone despises, because they are unnecessary according to them, but in this case with multiple characters. Or maybe add Amy in another classic title (Mania 2 as a direct sequel is unlikely). As for me, I'd rather have a full 3D title this time, 2D took too much space in Forces. Advance and Rush formulas are dead sadly unless they decide to hire Dimps again for more handheld companions to the main games, but I doubt they'd do that, and honestly I don't want Dimps in Sonic anymore.

Maybe use characters like the Freedom Fighters as suspiciously similar substitutes for those modern characters and their movepools? 

[TheOcelot]

 

[Marco9966]

We're 100% gonna get a sequel there's no way SEGA refuses to do another one. (and more cartoons please!)

 

[Blue Blood]

It's got less than 20 reviews which means that Metacritic won't count it towards ranking leaderboards, but big fucking deal. Mania, with or without Plus, is the highest rated Sonic game. The only other arguable contenders in Metacritic are all a bit dubious (CD iPhone, SA2, Advance 1 etc) and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find them amongst too many "Best Sonic Games" lists. SA2 maybe, but we all know how divisive that game is.

Sequel when? 

[Red Hot Jack]

I think it's more likely that a non direct sequel (another classic) gets made and they advertise that it's done by the same team. Just a hunch.

[Marco9966]

3 minutes ago, Drifting Jack said:

I think it's more likely that a non direct sequel (another classic) gets made and they advertise that it's done by the same team. Just a hunch.

Yeah, call it Sonic Discovery or Sonic Genesis, have the Hooligans as villains.

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

4 hours ago, Iko said:

I agree with you, though it's not my case.

In my review I mostly listed what I liked of Encore mode and I didn't talk about the "problems", aside of a couple of exceptions directly related to my arguments (such as the fact that you may lose 2 or 3 characters because they spawn already dead).

I'm not a modern fan, I like both classic and modern, it's just that I prefer the modern side of the franchise because while I grew up with the classics, I really became a Sonic fan after Sonic Adventure 2 and I'm more fond of the modern side of the franchise (well, more than modern, the Dreamcast/Advance era); but I like classics as well.

I never stated being Classic as a "problem", in fact I said "I still prefer the franchise to go in a different direction", so it's obvious that it's my preference.

What I consider a problem of Mania, if anything, it's the lack of innovation, which was kinda fixed with the Plus add-on (mostly the new concepts introduced in the Encore mode), as I said in my review.

EDIT: To be clear, when I say "I have a problem with", "My problem" I don't mean it's an actual problem, but something that bugs me, so it's still something personal.

I made this post partially out of reaction to yours, but I wasn't really "targeting" you as much as responding to that kind of common general statement. Among modern fans in the community it is very common.

Fair response though. I only advocate for people to be fair and reasonable. There are a lot of fans that only like 3D sonic gameplay and not 2D. It is a preference and it is fair for them to have it and they dont need to ever like mania if it isnt their taste. Just want them to know that personally not liking the classic sonic style has nothing to do with whether or not the game is broken.

[CleverSonicUsername]

I played Mania Plus a whole bunch over this last week and I think what I'm the most positive on is Mighty in the normal Mania Mode. I actually just really like having that ground pound, and the invulnerability he's granted lets you pull off some neat looking tricks as you race through a level.

But, man, I am still completely bummed by Encore mode. I've played through it a couple more times now, got all the Chaos Emeralds. The new ending animation is charming but I kind of felt it wasn't worth the hassle. Those new special stages aren't just more challenging, they change the design such that the faults of the new special stage system start to show more prominently. Which is a shame, because I honestly like the special stages in Mania a whole lot.

Not to be all negative though, this has given me a great excuse to replay Mania Mode and that's still a hell of a lot of fun. I find it hard to believe they won't make a follow up, but damn if that's not the singular thing I want out of this franchise right now.

[Hectopascal]

The price here is a big benefit, I like very much oldschool games at a good price. The game is waiting for me at home, it probably has already ended up downloading (I have a slow Internet connection). When I get back from work, I'm going to play all night :-) 
Edit:  Playing is pure pleasure, the game meets my expectations.
I do not know if I will have time to buy ISK at eve online
Buying EVE ISK is a standard procedure that every beginner needs to learn, only thanks to this we can again have everything we need to bring order to our planet. Isk is a valuable currency, but buying skill injectors has to cost, which is why the currency is counted in millions - which at first glance looks like the currency was a victim of inflation - but it is not.
You can pay for the ISK in the store, it is normal then that the spacecraft will cost billions of EVE Isk, not 15 Isk.
If you need to buy eve isk, here is my favorite store buy eve isk

I am very happy, a great game thanks to which I can relax on a Sunday afternoon - I like retro games and the atmosphere of oldschool - it all makes me feel like I'm a child again all I need to do is buy a isk and sonicmania

[Indigo Rush]

Oh right I promised a comprehensive review.

Uh.

There's no way I could possibly give an unbiased critique of Sonic Mania. Not only does it affect me on a nostalgic level, I have a personal stake in the form of supporting the development team. They're friends of Sonic Retro, the Sonic Stadium and friends of mine alike, so it's not feasible for me to separate the emotional impact this game has had on me from its pure objective qualities... so I'll just go ahead and say what I like and don't like with no particular structure to it.

I do like the presentation, from head to toe, visuals to music, it looks and sounds like pure fun. I like how it controls and how it feels. I like how the levels are designed and how it structures itself with an ebb and flow of speed and platforming. I like the dropdash. I like the robust Time Attack mode. I like the Special Stages. I like Blue Spheres. I like the Mean Bean boss. I like how Encore Mode lets you play the game again, but it's just a little bit different. I like how this game has cheat codes. I like how the shields interact with the environment. I like that Mighty and Ray are back and have totally new abilities that work with the game. I like the smooth 60fps animations. I like debug mode. I like Press Garden Zone. I like the new pinball bonus game. I like all the references and callbacks. I like all the new gimmicks. I like how old gimmicks are used in new ways. I like how they reimagined classic levels. I like the new levels. I like the animated opening. There's a whole lot of things I like about Sonic Mania.

I don't like how easy it is to be crushed and die instantly. I don't like how long some of the bosses are. I don't like how this game still softlocks sometimes. I don't like Denuvo. I don't like how I can't play the Special Stages in Time Attack. I don't like Knuckles being more magenta than red. I don't like the Sky Chase section in Mirage Saloon. I don't like Uber Caterkiller in the Sky Chase section in Mirage Saloon. I don't like how frustrating the Egg Spider boss is. I don't like how the pinball bonus game completely replaces the Blue Sphere bonus game in Mania Mode instead of being an option. I don't like how the Encore Special Stages didn't get a new palette change whereas the rest of Encore Mode did. I don't like that this game is inherently tied to Sonic Forces. I don't like how the levels are broken up into Zones instead of Acts and/or Bosses in the Save Select screen. There's a lot I can nitpick about Sonic Mania.

But.

All the good things, though. I really had to stretch to think about those issues, and most of them are pretty subjective; some of them are problems that the Classic games just inherently have. The point is that no game is perfect, because people have different tastes; ultimately though, I hardly ever think of them, because I'm too busy having a good time playing it, and as of now, after a year of playing it and considering it, I can safely say that Sonic Mania has usurped Sonic 3 & Knuckles as my personal favorite Sonic game.

Sonic Mania is beyond fun; it's an absolute joy, and the Plus expansion pack further cements it as one of the best, if not the best Sonic game ever made, and is deserving of all the praise it gets. Please get the team on board again for another round.

 

Okay where's the exit

[Blue Blood]

On 7/25/2018 at 9:11 PM, Indigo Rush said:

Oh right I promised a comprehensive review.

Uh.

There's no way I could possibly give an unbiased critique of Sonic Mania. Not only does it affect me on a nostalgic level, I have a personal stake in the form of supporting the development team. They're friends of Sonic Retro, the Sonic Stadium and friends of mine alike, so it's not feasible for me to separate the emotional impact this game has had on me from its pure objective qualities... so I'll just go ahead and say what I like and don't like with no particular structure to it.

I do like the presentation, from head to toe, visuals to music, it looks and sounds like pure fun. I like how it controls and how it feels. I like how the levels are designed and how it structures itself with an ebb and flow of speed and platforming. I like the dropdash. I like the robust Time Attack mode. I like the Special Stages. I like Blue Spheres. I like the Mean Bean boss. I like how Encore Mode lets you play the game again, but it's just a little bit different. I like how this game has cheat codes. I like how the shields interact with the environment. I like that Mighty and Ray are back and have totally new abilities that work with the game. I like the smooth 60fps animations. I like debug mode. I like Press Garden Zone. I like the new pinball bonus game. I like all the references and callbacks. I like all the new gimmicks. I like how old gimmicks are used in new ways. I like how they reimagined classic levels. I like the new levels. I like the animated opening. There's a whole lot of things I like about Sonic Mania.

I don't like how easy it is to be crushed and die instantly. I don't like how long some of the bosses are. I don't like how this game still softlocks sometimes. I don't like Denuvo. I don't like how I can't play the Special Stages in Time Attack. I don't like Knuckles being more magenta than red. I don't like the Sky Chase section in Mirage Saloon. I don't like Uber Caterkiller in the Sky Chase section in Mirage Saloon. I don't like how frustrating the Egg Spider boss is. I don't like how the pinball bonus game completely replaces the Blue Sphere bonus game in Mania Mode instead of being an option. I don't like how the Encore Special Stages didn't get a new palette change whereas the rest of Encore Mode did. I don't like that this game is inherently tied to Sonic Forces. I don't like how the levels are broken up into Zones instead of Acts and/or Bosses in the Save Select screen. There's a lot I can nitpick about Sonic Mania.

But.

All the good things, though. I really had to stretch to think about those issues, and most of them are pretty subjective; some of them are problems that the Classic games just inherently have. The point is that no game is perfect, because people have different tastes; ultimately though, I hardly ever think of them, because I'm too busy having a good time playing it, and as of now, after a year of playing it and considering it, I can safely say that Sonic Mania has usurped Sonic 3 & Knuckles as my personal favorite Sonic game.

Sonic Mania is beyond fun; it's an absolute joy, and the Plus expansion pack further cements it as one of the best, if not the best Sonic game ever made, and is deserving of all the praise it gets. Please get the team on board again for another round.

 

Okay where's the exit

I do like how all of your negative points are about very specific issues rather than the game as a whole, and the complete opposite is true of the positives. It speaks to the fact that the game is of an overall high standard.

Let's expand on my one personal big issue with the gameplay design on the negative list though. I don't like how many unintentional crushing hazards there are. 1HKOs due to crushers are annoying enough, but being slightly misaligned by just a pixel with PGZ ice cubes, CPZ stair-blocks or TMZ cylinders etc and dying because of it is a nuisance and very often totally unfair. I'd like to see them remove unintentional crushers like those entirely by forcing the player character back out, and replace intentional crushers with ring loss (like in Generations).

[Lord-Dreamerz]

On 7/25/2018 at 4:11 PM, Indigo Rush said:

I don't like the Sky Chase section in Mirage Saloon. I don't like Uber Caterkiller in the Sky Chase section in Mirage Saloon. I don't like how frustrating the Egg Spider boss is.

Not that I am picking on why you dislike those things at all or anything like that. But I guess I just don't understand those 2 things people sometimes see as a problem really? I thought the Egg Spider boss was really cool after you learn the trick to it, I love bosses that takes strategy/careful planning and unique unexpected methods to defeat it. My only problem with the boss is that I wish there would had been a quick animation example at the start of the fight that shows how the boss's mechanic worked roughly so it wouldn't take to long to figure out.

And as for Sky Chase... I guess i always enjoyed the sky chase type levels? I know not everybody does... guess I just can't relate to the feeling of not liking them.

[Indigo Rush]

2 hours ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Not that I am picking on why you dislike those things at all or anything like that. But I guess I just don't understand those 2 things people sometimes see as a problem really? I thought the Egg Spider boss was really cool after you learn the trick to it, I love bosses that takes strategy/careful planning and unique unexpected methods to defeat it. My only problem with the boss is that I wish there would had been a quick animation example at the start of the fight that shows how the boss's mechanic worked roughly so it wouldn't take to long to figure out.

And as for Sky Chase... I guess i always enjoyed the sky chase type levels? I know not everybody does... guess I just can't relate to the feeling of not liking them.

The Egg Spider boss has difficult to read hitboxes and it's not uncommon for someone to accidentally fling themselves past the boss and into the spikes even though they technically should have collided with it, and I'm not counting post-damage invincibility frames for the boss, either. It's a really difficult boss for what's only the 4th Zone and it took me far too many times to get the timing down. If "you need to strategize" is the only defense that can be made for it, maybe it should've been more clear when it could and couldn't take damage. Half the time when you do hit it correctly, it's still liable to miss the spikes if you miss your window of opportunity. This is a latter game level of challenge, not the first quarter. 

Sky Chase is restrictive and effectively becomes an auto-scrolling level, which I really don't like, especially in a Sonic game where the pace should be influenced by the player's skill and familiarity with the level, not forced upon you. This is why the least popular moments of Sonic (the rising water in Chemical Plant, or literally any moment where you're forced to stop to wait for an elevator or moving platform) are so disliked. Sky Chase is basically a level based entirely on that premise, and I don't care for it. It would've made for a neat mini-game or at least a portion of that Zone rather than 95% of it.