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Amy controls in future Mania title


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If Amy was added as a playable character in a Mania 2, how would you want her to play?

My idea is a much more streamlined variation of her Advance 1 move set.

Number 1 priorty is to make her faster so she's on par with the other three.

Her "spindash" move would he similar to what she had in advance, where she leaps forward. The only difference would be that she goes into a spin when she lands.

Every jump she makes would be her bouncing herself upwards with her hammer, and spinning in mid air with her hammer spinning around her would be what allows her to smash enemies when she lands on them.

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Please, if this happens, give her the SA1 hammer jump.

I've been playing the Advance games a bit and it frustrates me that when she does have it, it's only while standing still. Completely misses the point of how and why it was fun in SA1.

Other than that I'd like to give her a normal spin jump, but she jumps lower (maybe around Knuckles' height) and can use her hammer for longer range. That and the idea that was floating around when there were rumours of her being in Mania, where the hammer had a similar function as the insta shield (deflecting projectiles).

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The big question is whether or not to give her the hammer, which is arguably only associated with Modern Amy (Edit: See visual evidence below).  If you don't, it's much simpler to have her play like Sonic - I recall her Advance moveset as being perhaps a little too technical - and add some other special power.  Maybe she could have a mid-air dodge, a kind of reverse insta-shield where she passes right through enemies as if they weren't there.  Simpler options like a double-jump are also on the table, though something more original would obviously be better.

I definitely think she should have the spin attack and spin dash.  Those are based on the way a hedgehog (or echidna) can roll up into a ball, so it actually makes more sense for Amy to have these moves than it does for Tails.

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3 minutes ago, FFWF said:

The big question is whether or not to give her the hammer, which is arguably only associated with Modern Amy.  If you don't, it's much simpler to have her play like Sonic - I recall her Advance moveset as being perhaps a little too technical - and add some other special power.  Maybe she could have a mid-air dodge, a kind of reverse insta-shield where she passes right through enemies as if they weren't there.  Simpler options like a double-jump are also on the table, though something more original would obviously be better.

I definitely think she should have the spin attack and spin dash.  Those are based on the way a hedgehog (or echidna) can roll up into a ball, so it actually makes more sense for Amy to have these moves than it does for Tails.

Or maybe have the option to switch between Hammer and Non-Hammer mode?

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I'm concerned about Amy's moveset being compatible with the level design for other characters and having her own routes and gimmicks she can exclusively take advantage of, as well as condensing her moves to a one button setup. The simplicity of the Genesis games ought to be kept a priority, and need to reflect concepts and properties as well as environmental interactivity, rather than the other way around. 

Amy ought to be a technical style character. She should have initial disadvantages compared to the rest of the cast (a lack of a spin jump and roll) but with her unique abilities making her a jack of all trades and as a result, giving her a higher skill ceiling. Repurposing the insta-shield into Amy's moveset is a no-brainer, and giving her a slide attack when crouching while in motion would give her a means of defense without grinding her momentum to a halt. The "spindash" from the various "Amy" Romhacks (basically an uncurled spindash) should be sufficient in giving her a means of building up speed like the other characters. Maybe give her a wall jump  for scaling vertical climbs to help her stand out a little more. Having a higher jump than Sonic might give her another platforming advantage as well. 

But as it stands, plugging her directly into Mania design as it is now may not work as well as we would want. The game is designed with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles in mind. Sonic 3 & Amy works well for the most part, but I don't feel it's enough to set her apart in terms of exploring the world. Maybe the Mania devs could crack something out better. But that's just my short term thoughts for now. 

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I really like Celestia's running hammer jump idea. I recall the lack of it bothering me in Advance. I like Ernest-Panda's, too, but maybe she only rolls if I'm still holding down?

Also, if they don't want her to Spin-Dash, she could at least get the Super Peel Out. It would fit with her lack of curling up.

On 8/15/2017 at 8:03 PM, FFWF said:

The big question is whether or not to give her the hammer, which is arguably only associated with Modern Amy.  If you don't, it's much simpler to have her play like Sonic - I recall her Advance moveset as being perhaps a little too technical - and add some other special power.  Maybe she could have a mid-air dodge, a kind of reverse insta-shield where she passes right through enemies as if they weren't there.  Simpler options like a double-jump are also on the table, though something more original would obviously be better.

I definitely think she should have the spin attack and spin dash.  Those are based on the way a hedgehog (or echidna) can roll up into a ball, so it actually makes more sense for Amy to have these moves than it does for Tails.

0iB7mmR.jpg?1

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The only problem with the hammer jump is that the only way it can be implemented is through the addition of an "action" button command, which the classic titles didn't have and, ya know, I'm a little bit of a purist in that regard... *cough*

EDIT: unless, say, you wanted to do the reverse of Advance 1 and make it so it's only accessible while running, at which point it replaces a regular jump.

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For me, sounds something like this:

Look that she doesn't have a "concrete" Spindash.

There also versions of Sonic 1 & 2:

There also versions of she with the modern skin as in Sonic 3 Customizable and Sonic 2 Pink Edition, but for Mania, those are better.

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Since Mania has Sonic ditching the instashield in favor of the drop dash, my first thought is to transplant the instashield onto Amy in the form of spinning with her hammer. There's a few different directions they could take that; if they want Amy to be a more difficult character they could have her not spinjump by default, instead only going into a spin after an instashield. If they want her to be an easier character, they could extend the duration of the attack and/or allow it to be used multiple times per jump to make it easier to hit things with it. In either (or neither) case, they could have hitting enemies with the instashield make her bounce higher, similar to how her hammer jump allows her to jump higher off the ground. Maybe it could even be a double jump, who knows.

Rolling is, I think, basically necessary in a classic game, even if it's not something Amy typically does. If they want to make it more visually unique and more like how she usually operates, they could have her spin like a top with her hammer out; it's a bit of a weird way to represent the roll, but we've already had Espio and Blaze "roll" similarly, so I don't think it'd be too hard to buy into.

Giving her the peel-out (or a standing dash with spindash-style controls, to be a little more consistent with the other characters) would be an easy way to make her feel a little more distinct without feeling too out of place. She'd lack the protection of spinning while charging it, but she'd have the advantage of having a choice between running and rolling after release while the other characters are locked into rolling until they jump or go off a ledge.

Depending on how the instashield works, Amy might need another movement ability to feel unique and satisfying to play as. So in that case I'd put her hammer jump on up+jump, and make it a non-spinning jump (though she'd still have the instashield available for some level of defense) to balance out the increased height.

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My opinion is start off with her Advance 1 move set and create improvements/changes from there.

Give her the peel-out and get rid of the near useless small leap move set.

Allow her to roll, but don't include the spin-dash.

Make her hammer attacks have bigger and better hit boxes... in SA1 It seemed like enemies to often still hit me while I was attacking.

Maybe have her downwards spiral hammer attack control reworked so all you have to do is push any action button once while she is in midair.

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Give her a double jump, and ground pound attack with her hammer. I'm still bummed she wasn't in this game. From the sounds of it, she doesn't even make an appearance in this game. It feels like a let down  to make a game that celebrates the classic games, yet have Amy excluded. Sure, Metal Sonic, and illusions of characters from Sonic the Fighters show up, yet nothing from Amy?...

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Just now, SpongicX said:

Give her a double jump, and ground pound attack with her hammer. I'm still bummed she wasn't in this game. From the sounds of it, she doesn't even make an appearance in this game. It feels like a let down  to make a game that celebrates the classic games, yet have Amy excluded. Sure, Metal Sonic, and illusions of characters from Sonic the Fighters show up, yet nothing from Amy?...

Spoiler

Apparently A doll version if her appears in a boss fight.

 

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Highkey don't care how she plays, just want to play as her. :wub:

However I'd like her to play similarly to Advance tbh. Then again, some people think she's too hard to control in Advance so maybe make her have a spindash or whatever? I don't know, personally I'd appreciate any route they took. 

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I'm not gonna lie, I feel like the makers of this game hate Amy. It feels like a shame for them to make this game, and call it a celebration of the classic games, yet include everyone, but Amy. Amy wasn't in the game at all, and the only thing to represent her, were evil dolls  that you had to destroy. It's like the creators hate her, and wanted to use her as target practice, so they made evil dolls of her as part of a boss fight. I am not gonna lie, that left me kind of upset. It's like they're saying Amy is not important at all, and doesn't deserve to be in a game that celebrates the classic games and characters... Pretty hurtful to celebrate the classics, but leave the impression that one of the classic characters doesn't matter... If it weren't for Amy, there never would have been a Sonic CD. No Sonic CD, no Metal Sonic. 

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14 hours ago, Marcello said:

0iB7mmR.jpg?1
 

Can't argue with that; the hammer would probably be in, then.  I do think designing her without it is an option, but if the hammer has even classic-era associations with Amy as a playable character then it's much harder to justify its omission.

I think the spin attack and spindash are a must, or else she wouldn't play very much like a Sonic character at all and would miss out on the aims of much of the level design.  To integrate her with the one-button style, perhaps she could have a normal spin attack when jumping, and a further button press would produce the hammer - either as an insta-shield or as a momentary or permanent expansion of her attack range, in which case she might be read as a kind of "easy mode" character.  You could add onto that that landing on a spring with the hammer out would increase the height of her spring ascent, as per the Advance games, which could conceivably introduce a risk-reward element.  Maybe have her bounce once when hitting the ground to make things, conversely, harder?

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3 hours ago, SpongicX said:

I'm not gonna lie, I feel like the makers of this game hate Amy.

Not that I want to pretend how the main devs of Mania feel about Amy... Because honestly I have no real idea... However I think it's a bit telling when you look at their past works AKA fangames, as not only did they never include Amy... which is normal for most fangames/hacks for some reason. But as a matter of fact Shadow and Mighty were playable on one of their fangames along with Sonic/Tails & Knuckles over anybody else. But hopefully this doesn't really mean anything.

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If I were to give Amy a moveset, then...

- Have her normal jump by non-spinning, let it be the highest, and let her have a mid-air hammer spin similar to the insta-shield (extended attack range) and the drop dash (able to be held or let go whenever).
- Give her the peel-out so she can easily gain speed, but let her be able to roll (I like the Espio like spin suggested)
- One idea I've thought of, if she had to have a normal spin jump, is maybe letting her float via a balloon (designed similarly to the exit ones in Sonic Adventure). Since she's said to use tarot cards, maybe she can tap into magic to turn her hammer or a card into a balloon?

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I'd want her to play exactly as she did in Sonic Advance 1. Hammer instashield, hammer jump, and skipping.

Sonic Advances Amy was radically different from the other 3 playable characters, and offered an extra layer of challenge for anyone who wanted it. I really wouldn't want them to butcher this by giving her the ability to spin-dash or roll like she had in Sonic Advance 2, nor would I want them to overcomplicate it by adding new moves.

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