Sonic Forces - Is INFINITE related to [SOMETHING] from Mania? [HEAVY MANIA SPOILERS]

[JingleBoy]

Okay so, seriously, unless you've gotten all the Chaos Emeralds in Mania and beaten the Super Sonic boss, don't read any further. Go away, I'm warnin' ya.

There's a theory floating around about Mania's true ending and how Sonic is seen travelling through that stream - basically explaining how he ended up in Modern Sonic's timeline. 

Other than the pose he makes, there isn't a whole lot supporting the theory that these games are connected... or is there?

It was there all along staring us in the face...

Infinite is basically the Phantom Ruby... that came to life some how...?

How do you feel about this? Would you have preferred it if Mania was just its own standalone thing and didn't have to associate with Forces, or do you like that there's a link between the two games?

EDIT: haha I'm not quite sure why Phantom Ruby was censored from the thread title, especially considering that it's metioned in the flippin instruction manual, but oh well.

[Psychicmoose103]

This makes a ton of sense. I would also like to mention that the true final boss theme sounds a lot like fist bump at points.

[Dr. Mechano]

I don't think Infinite is the Phantom Ruby. I think Infinite's been affected by the Phantom Ruby.

 The Phantom Ruby magically transformed a bunch of Egg Robos into the Hard-Boiled Heavies. What I'm thinking is, the Phantom Ruby probably also transformed some hapless animal dude into an all-powerful villain. Infinite already looks like a customizable OC generator character, so perhaps he's one of those, but warped by the Ruby's power.

[Sonicfan287]

Wait... so Phantom Ruby is actually that things name?? 

[Heckboy]

6 minutes ago, Sonicfan287 said:

Wait... so Phantom Ruby is actually that things name?? 

Yeah, it was mentioned in the manual

Spoiler

 

[Azure P]

Infinite and the phantom ruby are some how related to each other is all we know at this point. Should be obvious the moment you first hear the sound the phantom ruby makes as it is indeed the exact sound Infinite makes when he uses his powers in the Sonic Forces reveal trailer of him.

After that distinct sound and how Mania ends. It is quite obvious that Mania is the prelude to Sonic Forces with it showing Classic Sonic's origins.

Just have to wait for more information to drop on Sonic Forces about Infinite though.

[Chris Knopps]

Here's my question...

Where the heck did this Gem come from in the first place?

How did it wind up on Angel Island where Sonic began his first initial trek there and went unnoticed until just now?

Shouldn't its power have been picked up by Classic Robotnik during Sonic 3 and Knuckles?

Why did it not wind up discovered until now?

Did the Master Emeralds power cancel out the signal from this new Gem or something?

[Azure P]

9 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Here's my question...

Where the heck did this Gem come from in the first place?

How did it wind up on Angel Island where Sonic began his first initial trek there and went unnoticed until just now?

Shouldn't its power have been picked up by Classic Robotnik during Sonic 3 and Knuckles?

Why did it not wind up discovered until now?

Did the Master Emeralds power cancel out the signal from this new Gem or something?

You know. I just thought of some thing. Perhaps the ruby was there on Angel Island all along. As it could be the lore explanation of how Knuckles knocks Sonic out of his super state. Since it is the exact place it happened.

[Polkadi~☆]

Seeing as the Ruby can warp things into all-new powerful bosses, Infinite was probably affected by the gem too. Except this time, he has the gem's powers. Maybe he keeps the gem on him somewhere? Like maybe that chestplate.

 

And maybe Infinite wasn't just changed, but became a living version of the Phantom Ruby. In fact, let me take another look at his theme...

- Cause if you're messing with me, I am a dangerous weapon

He is the Phantom Ruby after all.

- Cause I was born in this pain, it only hurts if you let it,

Infinite's birth was due to the Phantom Ruby, and I don't imagine a transformation from it would be pretty. Think roboticization, but nastier. Someone became Infinite due to the Ruby.

- And after all this time, you're back for more

Ain't the Ruby's first rodeo with Sonic.

- So I'll take what's mine and start this war

Should be clear. Infinite wants to keep the Ruby to himself, to harness it's powers for destruction.

- (This is an illusion, open up your eyes and...)

This, I think is most interesting. The Phantom Ruby has strange powers, including transforming and manipulating things. But maybe the Phantom Ruby isn't actually changing things. The HBH and Infinite himself aren't actually real, and just illusions created by the Ruby.

 

I dunno, maybe it's farfetched. But Infinite must be some regular guy transformed by the Ruby.

[Multikaris]

2 minutes ago, Polkadi said:

Seeing as the Ruby can warp things into all-new powerful bosses, Infinite was probably affected by the gem too. Except this time, he has the gem's powers. Maybe he keeps the gem on him somewhere? Like maybe that chestplate.

 

And maybe Infinite wasn't just changed, but became a living version of the Phantom Ruby. In fact, let me take another look at his theme...

- Cause if you're messing with me, I am a dangerous weapon

He is the Phantom Ruby after all.

- Cause I was born in this pain, it only hurts if you let it,

Infinite's birth was due to the Phantom Ruby, and I don't imagine a transformation from it would be pretty. Think roboticization, but nastier. Someone became Infinite due to the Ruby.

- And after all this time, you're back for more

Ain't the Ruby's first rodeo with Sonic.

- So I'll take what's mine and start this war

Should be clear. Infinite wants to keep the Ruby to himself, to harness it's powers for destruction.

- (This is an illusion, open up your eyes and...)

This, I think is most interesting. The Phantom Ruby has strange powers, including transforming and manipulating things. But maybe the Phantom Ruby isn't actually changing things. The HBH and Infinite himself aren't actually real, and just illusions created by the Ruby.

 

I dunno, maybe it's farfetched. But Infinite must be some regular guy transformed by the Ruby.

Or even Tikal, with the transformation being Eggman's fault, by using his Badnik table to shove it into her.

[Polkadi~☆]

Just now, Miru the Living Planet said:

Or even Tikal, with the transformation being Eggman's fault, by using his Badnik table to shove it into her.

There has been indicators that Infinite is a fox, so maybe not. But Infinite could be something made by Eggman, it's possible.

[Chris Knopps]

Wait a second...

Back in Sonic 06...

Wasn't there a staff with a purple gem on it that contained Mephiles as well...?

Awfully similar...

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Wait a second...

Back in Sonic 06...

Wasn't there a staff with a gem on it that contained Mephiles as well...?

That was a scepter.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, SenEDDtor Missile said:

That was a scepter.

There's still the matter of the purple gem however atop the scepter. I edited my comment to show the similarities.

[Osmium]

They don't look similar. 

[SweeCrue]

I'm pretty sure the scepter was destroyed at the end of Shadow's story.

 

And about the Phantom Ruby:

Spoiler

"Discovering a sudden dimensional breach in the atmosphere, evil genius Dr. Eggman detected a unique wave signature emanating from Angel Island."

 

Sounds to me like the Phantom Ruby came from another dimension, and then buried itself into Angel Island while it was flying in the atmosphere where we last saw it at the end of S3&K.

And I guess the energy from the Phantom Ruby interfered with the Master Emerald which made the island crash into the ocean once again.

 

Man, Angel Island just can't catch a break.

[Osmium]

5 minutes ago, SweeCrue said:

Sounds to me like the Phantom Ruby came from another dimension, and then buried itself into Angel Island while it was flying in the atmosphere where we last saw it at the end of S3&K.

And I guess the energy from the Phantom Ruby interfered with the Master Emerald which made the island crash into the ocean once again.

Interesting to think of it like that, what if it came from Blaze's dimension or something? 

[Mogul]

16 minutes ago, SweeCrue said:

I'm pretty sure the scepter was destroyed at the end of Shadow's story.

 

And about the Phantom Ruby:

  Reveal hidden contents

"Discovering a sudden dimensional breach in the atmosphere, evil genius Dr. Eggman detected a unique wave signature emanating from Angel Island."

 

Sounds to me like the Phantom Ruby came from another dimension, and then buried itself into Angel Island while it was flying in the atmosphere where we last saw it at the end of S3&K.

And I guess the energy from the Phantom Ruby interfered with the Master Emerald which made the island crash into the ocean once again.

 

Man, Angel Island just can't catch a break.

This is the explanation I'm most willing to accept until more official details are revealed. My one issue is, why is Knuckles just chilling at the beginning of his story. You'd think he'd be trying to get Angel Island in the air again, or investigating what happened.

 

Also I'm wondering about the nature of the Ruby's powers. Is it teleporting Sonic and co. to old zones? Or is it somehow bringing those zones to it? Or maybe they're illusions? That would at least explain what Little Planet is doing chained to Angel Island. I wish a little bit more of the story was told in the game, that's my biggest complaint with an otherwise perfect game.

[Psychicmoose103]

4 minutes ago, Mogul said:

This is the explanation I'm most willing to accept until more official details are revealed. My one issue is, why is Knuckles just chilling at the beginning of his story. You'd think he'd be trying to get Angel Island in the air again, or investigating what happened.

It seems that knuckles story isnt canon in mania unlike 3k. For example, knuckles fights bosses that sonic fought before, so you think they would be destroyed.

[Jango]

There are a few issues with the story and "last minute" cut content for sure. For starters: Angel Island in the ocean. Secondly: the manual says Eggman sent the Heavies to retrieve the Ruby, but when Sonic/Tails arrives at Angel Island, there are just five regular Egg Robos... The Ruby sends Sonic/Tails to GHZ and suddenly all the Heavies are there! Before reading this manual, I've actually thought that the Ruby transformed those five Egg Robos into the Heavies with its power. Later on we see the Heavies messing around with the Ruby, Eggman gets pissed and snatches the Ruby back and uses its power.

Little Planet is just there, no explanation whatsover, especially the fact that it's still chained and inside the metal shell...

The Phantom Ruby confirmed powers: create horm holes = time travel or just teleportation (no effects to the time line, just good old instant transmission).

Non confirmed powers: enhance machines (or even animals, people); Intercept the Master Emerald's power (or clash with it); Change the past (why would Little Planet still be inside the metal shell?); Create illusions (could all the levels be actually illusions and Sonic/Tails never left Angel Island??).

Well... We can only hope Forces is going to answer some of that.

[Chris Knopps]

44 minutes ago, Jango said:

There are a few issues with the story and "last minute" cut content for sure. For starters: Angel Island in the ocean. Secondly: the manual says Eggman sent the Heavies to retrieve the Ruby, but when Sonic/Tails arrives at Angel Island, there are just five regular Egg Robos... The Ruby sends Sonic/Tails to GHZ and suddenly all the Heavies are there! Before reading this manual, I've actually thought that the Ruby transformed those five Egg Robos into the Heavies with its power. Later on we see the Heavies messing around with the Ruby, Eggman gets pissed and snatches the Ruby back and uses its power.

Little Planet is just there, no explanation whatsover, especially the fact that it's still chained and inside the metal shell...

The Phantom Ruby confirmed powers: create horm holes = time travel or just teleportation (no effects to the time line, just good old instant transmission).

Non confirmed powers: enhance machines (or even animals, people); Intercept the Master Emerald's power (or clash with it); Change the past (why would Little Planet still be inside the metal shell?); Create illusions (could all the levels be actually illusions and Sonic/Tails never left Angel Island??).

Well... We can only hope Forces is going to answer some of that.

Angel Island - No Explanation

Little Planet - Time/Dimension Travel Happening - Went Back To When Classic Robotnik Obtained The Planet

[SatAMhog]

Hey, another thing about Forces being connected to Mania...on the Collector's Card it reads "Fun Is Infinite" on the Tails and Knuckles side.  I know it's not a big thing but I thought that was pretty neat. 

[PKGaming]

I just watched the E3 trailer for Forces and yep, Infinite makes the exact same sounds as the Phantom Ruby. Wow, I'm suddenly really excited for Forces now.

[Red]

What if Mania's events didn't actually happen at all?

The final boss is called "Egg Reverie" and reverie means "daydream". So I'm thinking after the ruby was excavated out, Infinite broke free of his prison and created the illusion that is Sonic Mania, and observed everything he did. As a result he can now dodge anything Modern Sonic throws at him with relative ease.

[Salamander]

I'm going to sound a cautionary note and suggest that the similarity in sound effects between the Phantom Ruby and Infinite is only a reference, rather than a clue.  It may well be a clue, and the gem in Infinite's chest may well be the Phantom Ruby, but the possibility exists that it is not.