Sonic Forces - Is INFINITE related to [SOMETHING] from Mania? [HEAVY MANIA SPOILERS]

[LunchPolice]

Are we sure this sound effect isn't a recurring one in the Sonic series? If it appears in any of the original Genesis games then this is probably a wash. I do hope something comes of this, it would be a really cool and unexpected connection.

Also, this is my first post here in six years. Hi, everyone!

[MudHunter]

6 minutes ago, LunchPolice said:

Are we sure this sound effect isn't a recurring one in the Sonic series? If it appears in any of the original Genesis games then this is probably a wash. I do hope something comes of this, it would be a really cool and unexpected connection.

Also, this is my first post here in six years. Hi, everyone!

Nope it's totally new.

[Scar]

14 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Wait a second...

Back in Sonic 06...

Wasn't there a staff with a purple gem on it that contained Mephiles as well...?

Awfully similar...

You're making connections where there definitely aren't any. 

I highly doubt there is anything connecting Forces to Mania, however it isn't unreasonable for SEGA to want there to be a link.

But Sonic 06? There is no reason for anyone to make any more callbacks to that disaster.

[SonicLegends]

29 minutes ago, Scar said:

You're making connections where there definitely aren't any. 

I highly doubt there is anything connecting Forces to Mania, however it isn't unreasonable for SEGA to want there to be a link.

But Sonic 06? There is no reason for anyone to make any more callbacks to that disaster.

Ahem... Sonic Colors DS Blaze and Silver interaction with Tails alluding to them working as if they worked together before and Blaze mentioning how she never thought she would be back at Crisis City again in Sonic Generations after completing one of her friend missions. 

[Sonicka]

1 hour ago, Scar said:

You're making connections where there definitely aren't any. 

I highly doubt there is anything connecting Forces to Mania, however it isn't unreasonable for SEGA to want there to be a link.

But Sonic 06? There is no reason for anyone to make any more callbacks to that disaster.

Yeah, I have to agree that a callback to '06 would be, well, insane.

However The actual connection between Mania and Forces has been a discussion point for almost a week now and the evidence is pretty clear, especially given Mania's true ending. 

It may be purely used as a transitional element explanation for how Classic Sonic arrives in the later game - and seems likely to set up infinite to some degree given what's been seen (but probably only in the same vein of how Sonic Colours & Sonic Generations are connected if we are being honest here.)

However the evidence basically cements Mania as a quasi-prequel (or prelude) to Sonic Forces at the moment.

Maybe it's not necessary, but it is certainly some smart marketing and planning ahead that has been created here by Sega.

[JingleBoy]

4 hours ago, SonicLegends said:

Ahem... Sonic Colors DS Blaze and Silver interaction with Tails alluding to them working as if they worked together before and Blaze mentioning how she never thought she would be back at Crisis City again in Sonic Generations after completing one of her friend missions. 

Ewww...

Not only did they ruin Blaze's character and origin, but they're actually sticking with this? So dumb...

[Sonictrainer]

On 8/16/2017 at 5:53 PM, Polkadi said:

- (This is an illusion, open up your eyes and...)

This, I think is most interesting. The Phantom Ruby has strange powers, including transforming and manipulating things. But maybe the Phantom Ruby isn't actually changing things. The HBH and Infinite himself aren't actually real, and just illusions created by the Ruby.

The True Final Boss of Sonic Mania is called the "Egg Reverie".

Quote

reverie |ˈrev(ə)rē| noun

a state of being pleasantly lost in one's thoughts; a daydream: a knock on the door broke her reverie | I slipped into reverie.

Interesting.

If we throw in the fact that Chaos Emeralds can turn thoughts and wishes into power...

...did Modern Eggman use both the Emeralds and the Phantom Ruby to take over 99% of the world?

Or is that world an alternate timeline where he took over the world?

[HywelAtTheMoon]

In the Collector's Edition, take a look at the back of the metallic card. There's faint text that reads "Fun is Infinite". Nothing more beyond that, sadly. 

Here's the shot. The text is really faint. 

[Chris Knopps]

9 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

In the Collector's Edition, take a look at the back of the metallic card. There's faint text that reads "Fun is Infinite". Nothing more beyond that, sadly. 

Here's the shot. The text is really faint. 

Wishes are Eternal too.

[Polkadi~☆]

Okay, I've come up to another discovery.

 

A very specific part of Infinite glows when he uses his power. Mainly, the thing on his chest. And it glows a PRETTY SPECIFIC COLOUR.

Purple? Hmm...

 

Not to mention, it glows EVERY TIME he uses a power, like flying or otherwise.

 

That thing on Infinite's chest has to be the Phantom Ruby, or at least a piece of it.

[Red]

A thought came to mind.

What if Infinite is actually a remnant of or related to the Time Eater from Generations?

[Sonic_101]

I been playing sonic for a very long time. In  I agree with the guesses of infinite being the phantom ruby. Considering that sonic in sonic mania. Gets teleported along with the ruby to another Demintion. It's funny bc where was sonic at the end of the game while tails and knuckles was watching the disappearance of the sphere in the sky? Sonic clearly made his face known in the sky letting them know he is okay.. in the beam of light coming from the sphere before it vanished was sonic light traveling to the modern world. Which was shown in the start of the trailer for sonic forces.. modern sonic doesn't know what's goin on clearly. Since he is shocked on the destruction that he is witnessing. Since Eggman has conquered the world for the most part. I wouldn't be surprised if classic robotnick makes an appearance. Considering that robotnick knew the power of the gem clearly. Making time in space warp. How else would modern eggman make contact with infinite in the modern world? Considering how would he know infinites power? Shadow chaos and metal sonic probably is created from infinite. Since he has the power of time in space. Which he brought old foes back into his reliance. Eggman and robotnick in generations went there own way which in generations was also a recall of time in space just how forces is being fulfilled in the exact same way. 

In I noticed in one of the videos I saw on YouTube of sonic first discovering infinite. Sonic dashes toward him which tails states "wow he is faster than sonic" 

ding ding ding! 

He has the power of space in time just how in mania the ruby teleported sonic to different stages through out the game. 

So he is gonna be faster... especially if he is the phantom ruby 

[Azure P]

Alright. This thread is specifically about the Phantom Ruby, what it is, what it is capable of and how it is driving the plot in both Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces.

All three of these are tracks relating to the ruby and all three have a common theme. Illusions. Not to mention the ruby itself being referred to as a 'phantom' ruby.

 

Strongly suggesting that some/many things we see in both Sonic Mania and Sonic Forces are not really there and/or didn't really happen.

 

Certainly further muddying the whole dimensional explanation. There is possibility for things such as Mania (or most of it) not really happening at all or Infinite simply being a manifested phantom due to the ruby's power. Though with Eggman behind all this. He could be the one pulling all the strings like a marionette with the use of the ruby. Why he may have complete control over Infinite. All speculation so far of course.

 

All could just be a phantom of one's own imagination. Imagination is fun. Fun is Infinite.

[molul]

Ugh, I hadn't heard Infinite's theme. What a horrible track for a Sonic game (IMO, of course).

[Stasis]

Considering this is a spoiler topic, it should be safe to talk about this. I noticed this too after looking at track names and final boss name. 

What stands out the most is that in Knuckles opening you see the Eggrobos fly past and hit him with the ruby. For this to happen, the opening for Sonic must not have happened. During this "illusion" time could have been when Eggman took over, but for it to not be real, Sonic would not have been taken by a portal to Forces as it would not be real? Confusing.

[Azure P]

 

1 hour ago, Stasis said:

Considering this is a spoiler topic, it should be safe to talk about this. I noticed this too after looking at track names and final boss name. 

What stands out the most is that in Knuckles opening you see the Eggrobos fly past and hit him with the ruby. For this to happen, the opening for Sonic must not have happened. During this "illusion" time could have been when Eggman took over, but for it to not be real, Sonic would not have been taken by a portal to Forces as it would not be real? Confusing.

Good pick up there. I hadn't thought about that. The eggrobos didn't actually teleport or even transform. Leading to more evidence that it was all a dream an illusion. It certainly does muddy a lot of things as we can't tell what is real and what is fake.

[Salamander]

One thing I've been considering lately with regards to Forces is a kind of less extreme version of the theory (based on the lyrics to Infinite's theme) that the whole game is some kind of illusion created by Infinite.  I'd like to take a step back and suggest instead that the bulk of Eggman's forces and many of the signs of his victory, like his industrialisations of existing zones, are in fact illusions created by Infinite, something like the solid-light holograms of fiction; this could also account for some of Infinite's particularly quick moves and his many powers.  This idea would make the events of the game a little more "real" than just a dream Sonic was trapped in, but still allows Eggman's forces to be largely overcome simply by defeating Infinite.  That seems like a satisfying plot twist.  The "solid illusion" interpretation also fills in some of Mania's plot holes, like the connections between zones and the transformation of the Hard-Boiled Heavies.

[caitash]

Maybe the Avatar character is the illusion, projected by Infinite/Phantom Ruby for various possible plot reasons. Maybe that's why you can customise the character to look how you want.

[Salamander]

That would work for me if Infinite secretly wanted to be defeated, but for various reasons (control helmet, probably) was unable to openly go against Eggman.

[Natie]

I got the impression from the end of Mania's true final boss that the Ruby stole Sonic's emeralds at the last second and was gonna use that power to go to Forces' world and build itself a fancy new body, becoming Infinite. Gave me a pretty strong "The Phantom Ruby is Infinite's fetal form" vibe as it acted on its own at the last minute.

Wouldn't that kinda mean Classic Sonic is kinda indirectly responsible for Infinite?

 

[kadosho]

Something I've thought about since we caught a bit of "Infinite". Being a longtime Sonic fan... here is my theory..
Tails is Infinite / somewhere in the universe Tails became affected by it "or he was badly injured during this war".
Its a darker timeline in Forces, and the possibility of a parallel universe is very likely. However during his fight to the last breath, he lost one of his tails (and also his sanity making a bargain with the Ruby Emerald) Or even the notion of giving up his soul to do as it wished, the things he never thought of doing before. But it also corrupted him altogether, and tapped into his memories of foes that he & Sonic have met in the past.

Also this version of Tails would be from a "altered timeline" But can cause & effect across this current universe that Modern Sonic is tangled within. 
The foes we meet in this teaser are manifestations of what they were in the past, present, and future. 

As of note, if you ever read Tails bio, his age, and weaknesses.. yeah there are clues scattered around since Sonic 2

[Whatever the WhoCares]

9 hours ago, FFWF said:

One thing I've been considering lately with regards to Forces is a kind of less extreme version of the theory (based on the lyrics to Infinite's theme) that the whole game is some kind of illusion created by Infinite.  I'd like to take a step back and suggest instead that the bulk of Eggman's forces and many of the signs of his victory, like his industrialisations of existing zones, are in fact illusions created by Infinite, something like the solid-light holograms of fiction; this could also account for some of Infinite's particularly quick moves and his many powers.  This idea would make the events of the game a little more "real" than just a dream Sonic was trapped in, but still allows Eggman's forces to be largely overcome simply by defeating Infinite.  That seems like a satisfying plot twist.  The "solid illusion" interpretation also fills in some of Mania's plot holes, like the connections between zones and the transformation of the Hard-Boiled Heavies.

That's alluded to in Infinite's theme. "This is an illusion, open up your eyes and-"

[Cornelius Fudge]

9 hours ago, FFWF said:

One thing I've been considering lately with regards to Forces is a kind of less extreme version of the theory (based on the lyrics to Infinite's theme) that the whole game is some kind of illusion created by Infinite.  I'd like to take a step back and suggest instead that the bulk of Eggman's forces and many of the signs of his victory, like his industrialisations of existing zones, are in fact illusions created by Infinite, something like the solid-light holograms of fiction; this could also account for some of Infinite's particularly quick moves and his many powers.  This idea would make the events of the game a little more "real" than just a dream Sonic was trapped in, but still allows Eggman's forces to be largely overcome simply by defeating Infinite.  That seems like a satisfying plot twist.  The "solid illusion" interpretation also fills in some of Mania's plot holes, like the connections between zones and the transformation of the Hard-Boiled Heavies.

I honestly loathe the idea because it's insinuating that Eggman's victory of world-domination is an entire illusion even though the allure is found in the fact that Eggman's goal is finally made a reality when that was never the case before. I'd be so underwhelmed if we were led to believe that this is an entire illusion.

[Azure P]

Also doesn't Infinite's voice kind of sound like scarecrow from the DC universe when he gases people?

 

[Cornelius Fudge]

Nah, Infinite sounds like Gaara from Naruto and that's because they use the same voice actor.