Why doesn't Sonic get more complaints about being Overpowered than Shadow

[Kuzu]

13 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Eh, or people who like dumb cool shit. Like me, I like DMC and that game is filled with over powered fuckery, but its fun. 

Sometimes things are cool and fun

if you feel need to cringe, that's on you. To use your own example, I watch DBZ super now, its dumb there is a form called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, but that's ok because its a fun time. Sometimes its ok to have fun with something and make it crazy, not everything needs to be restricted to " not cringe" because everything is " cringy" to someone

 

Sonic isn't Devil May Cry though, additionally, Devil May Cry also runs on camp and doesn't expect you to take it seriously at all. The whole plot is dumb, but it knows it's dumb and pokes fun at it. Meanwhile, You are meant to take everything about Shadow seriously. 

Secondly, I also watch Dragon Ball Super. I enjoy it to an extent, but that doesn't mean I don't think it can do without the stupid elements. There's a difference between adding something fun, and adding something that's not really a fit with the series. If you're fine with Sonic being furry DBZ, that's cool with you, but I've never really been fond of that and I don't think I ever will be.

[Dash Speed]

I don't see the big deal about shadow's powers because Shadow's powers came from his own lore in the series away from Sonic, and in sonic gameplay has the same fast elements Sonic has but they obviously buffed sonic more in comparision. 

Also someone made a comparison to DMC, always felt like that was like a Sonic game made edgy. DMC3 was basically SA2 with more teen cringe and anime cliches. Plus I don't where the notion it's a self aware series comes from, just because the main character is a wiseass punk with a sense of humor.

[Dash Speed]

Bump to bring this topic up that Sonics on his own mary sue tier again with Shadow being a close second thanks to infinite. Sonic is virtually impossible to beat thanks to his super speed which is immeasurable and can now outrun demension. Sonic is like the Flash now. Sega has to come up with overpowered villains to match his abilites.

I have always held the belief Sonic is limiting his true speed to even Eggman and Shadow so that he won't have to beat them easily.

[Dash Speed]

Bump to say just noticed something. When has sonic ever been an underdog? sonic is a example of a super speed savant. Shadow is second to sonic in using his speed in talented ways, and only uses the basics of sonics moveset with limited success. Chaos energy techniques is shadows signature talent and sonic still beats him using only his super speed capabilities versus his talent in chaos power. So Sonic is more talented than Shadow in using his speciality than Shadow is with his speciality.

[MadmanRB]

Its more Shadows backstory and his fanbase too that is the point of contention.

Thing is I didnt have a problem with shadow at first, but that shitty game he stars in that made me dislike him not to mention his fanbase treating him as the best thing since sliced bread

[Dash Speed]

On 11/5/2018 at 11:15 PM, MadmanRB said:

Its more Shadows backstory and his fanbase too that is the point of contention.

Thing is I didnt have a problem with shadow at first, but that shitty game he stars in that made me dislike him not to mention his fanbase treating him as the best thing since sliced bread

No one does that anymore now, and if they do know one takes shadow fan seriously.

[Foxthefox1000]

Shadow is consistently displayed as flashy and destructive, but in reality, despite combat training for better h2h skills, his abilities are now also being given to Silver without the dang boy needing Emeralds to boot. As shown in Sonic 06, he can adapt jist as easily as Sonic and utilise Chaos Energy too. Forget Shadow, the real mary sue has been hiding in plain sight.

[Tarnish]

On 8/17/2017 at 1:03 AM, Indigo Rush said:

Infinite kicks Sonic against a wall and is faster than him.

Here's something I never really seen others point out: Sonic gets his ass handed to him by Infinite on their first encounter. The logical conclusion to this would be: "Well darn, this Infinite is so powerful, Sonic really needs some kind of help to gain the upper hand."

Well, the next encourter rolls around, and from what I remember, Sonic didn't learn anything new, didn't get any item to help him, Infinite hasn't been weakened by anything. Yet, Sonic has no problem defeating Infinite this time for no other than..that's how the writers decided this time...talk about lazy ass writing.

[Foxthefox1000]

No, no. The cutscene implies the second Infinite encounter after being stomped was less of a stomp, but still a stomp as Infinite activates his trump card and easily dispatches Sonic, stating he's improved and even probably better than Silver from in-game dialogue. The NEXT Infinite fight has the OC with a macguffin that counters Infinite, so that's why that happened, and then after that, his final encounter is when Sonic and the Avatar team up against a fully recovered Infinite and somehow win through the power of teamwork and friendship with the Double Boost. He needs help to canonically beat Infinite at full power.

 

I know, it's hard to gather that when the character is super pathetic and seems like a cheap way of trying to pull people into the game. Also, sincw we love our little statements and manuals, Infinite is listed aa Sonic's strongest enemy yet. Though, this is base Sonic's greatest threat, and he's clearly above Silver and likely Shadow, so yeah. The other base Sonic bosses were Ifrit, Emerl, and the Eggrobo? Also, Iblis for Silver. 

[Tarnish]

36 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

stating he's improved and even probably better than Silver from in-game dialogue

Improved how? Sonic didn't do anything to improve, they didn't show him doing anything to improve, so sadly it's still very poor, cheap writing. Also, saying "Sonic is better than Silver" is either admitting they never saw that Silver had no problem defeating Sonic once in Sonic 2006 and only got away due to Amy interfering (one could argue whether that's canon or not, but having to have that argument only confirms that the Sonic timeline/canon/universe is f-ed up beyond repair), or going the typical route of "showing a character being very powerful, but never showing him that powerful again" because reasons.

So in short, I just hate the "showing a character being able to do something epic once, then seemingly forget he can do that and never doing it again" kind of writing. Instead of building on the fact that "Okay, this character can do this, how should Sonic be able to overcome it?", they just make the character never use that ability again because it's easier.

[Rowl]

Probably because Shadow is actually overpowered. He can control space and time, runs super fast, has a super form and can time travel at will. Sonic only has two of those abilities. So yeah, Shadow is a bit overpowered. 

[Eurisko]

* Reads title

If you think Sonic is overpowered please write to: Team Sonic, Complaints department , South Island, Mobius ,POBOX 1991

[Tarnish]

2 hours ago, Rowl said:

Probably because Shadow is actually overpowered. He can control space and time, runs super fast, has a super form and can time travel at will. Sonic only has two of those abilities. So yeah, Shadow is a bit overpowered. 

Well, Sonic was shown being able to use Chaos Control in Sonic Adventure 2, tho it seemed to take a toll on him (at least the first time he used it), so there's that.

I would point out tho that usually if there's some brand new magical doohickey Sonic never even knew existed, he has no problem harnessing their power: the World Rings from Secret Rings to transform into sports car Sonic, the 'sacred swords' in Black Knight to transform into 'why the hell is this even a thing' Sonic..I'm surprised he didn't use the Sol Emeralds for something.

So yeah, Sonic is way overpowered. At this point it would be a breath of fresh air to see a story where they go "No, Sonic, you can't solve this situation, you'll need someone to help you...someone besides another version of you". Forces kinda tried that but it was just...meh.

[Foxthefox1000]

3 hours ago, Rowl said:

Probably because Shadow is actually overpowered. He can control space and time, runs super fast, has a super form and can time travel at will. Sonic only has two of those abilities. So yeah, Shadow is a bit overpowered. 

 

Let's see...

Silver:

- Can seemingly time travel with little to no repercussions and can just do it willynilly nowadays without Emeralds, unless we're saying he brings a future macguffin to the past every time, which opens a whole new can of worms. 

- Can manipulate space without an Emerald, as shown through his "Teleport Dash"

- Can apparently become temporarily intangible while performing the Teleport Dash, which means he has a way to phase through things

- This same ability is also described as "moving at light speed" or "instantaneous", so really, pick your poison.

- Can both run and fly super fast

- Has versatile psychokinesis that can cut through the air and paralyze foes on contact

- Has a wave of ESP that he can send out in every direction that messes with opponent's heads

- Can grab and redirect projectiles as well as hold objects as big as a small building if his Meteor in Generations is any inkling (comics has him freaking dragging the Ifrit, if I recall)

- Literally stalemated Shadow and quickly learned Chaos Control easily, which he can likely perform if he had an Emerald on him

- Only other character besides Sonic and the Avatar to have put up a fight against Infinite when he has the Phantom Ruby, as even Shadow was shown being confused and getting toyed with whilst Omega got rekt. Speaking of Infinite, this guy projected a dwarf star and a whole at least city-wide area complete with it's own source of light for Shadow as a "test" of his power.

I dunno, man. Honestly, I wouldn't even be surprised if Silver just had some psychic power that controlled time in a newer game given he can already time travel and somewhat warp space, his own temporal mass, and project it at lightspeed all in one instance of psychic ability. Literally no Emeralds needed. 

Like, it wouldn't even be BS because that's already BS and it's clear 06 meant for him to be the new gary stu rival like Shadow. Also, with how this boy "needs to to fly," he's shown levitating in place conpletely without the use of his psychic aura that usually appears when he flies? Like? Can they be a little consistent or can he just levitate normally and we were all fools to think otherwise because why can't he? He does what Sonic and Shadow does with casual ease and without equipment and is so nonchalant about it.

[DabigRG]

Oh Cripes, if there was a thread I hoped to not see again.

13 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Here's something I never really seen others point out: Sonic gets his ass handed to him by Infinite on their first encounter. The logical conclusion to this would be: "Well darn, this Infinite is so powerful, Sonic really needs some kind of help to gain the upper hand."

Well, the next encourter rolls around, and from what I remember, Sonic didn't learn anything new, didn't get any item to help him, Infinite hasn't been weakened by anything. Yet, Sonic has no problem defeating Infinite this time for no other than..that's how the writers decided this time...talk about lazy ass writing.

It's worth noting that in the first fight, Infinite himself mostly avoided Sonic and simply had the Phantom Zavok, Chaos, and Metal overwhelm him while occasionally sneaking in a cheap hit himself.

[Tarnish]

53 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

It's worth noting that in the first fight, Infinite himself mostly avoided Sonic and simply had the Phantom Zavok, Chaos, and Metal overwhelm him while occasionally sneaking in a cheap hit himself.

That's pretty much my point tho. He found a tactic that worked the first time, then never used that tactic again.

[DabigRG]

Just now, Tarnish said:

That's pretty much my point tho. He found a tactic that worked the first time, then never used that tactic again.

He wasn't particularly smart, that jackal.

[Tarnish]

21 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

He wasn't particularly smart, that jackal.

I'd rather blame it on the writing. That's kind of a problem when you write a character that can do pretty much anything by altering reality: now you have to come up with a good way how can the hero overcome such a powerful character. And in Forces, they just pretty much didn't bother with that. Sonic did the same exact things he has been for the past 5 main entries in the franchise..boost and homing attack.

When you show me Infinite can just dodge Sonic, I'm not gonna just forget that when their next encounter comes along, I'm gonna ask: why didn't he dodge Sonic that time? And if you don't tell my a good reason for it, I'm gonna call that crap writing.

[DabigRG]

28 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

I'd rather blame it on the writing. That's kind of a problem when you write a character that can do pretty much anything by altering reality: now you have to come up with a good way how can the hero overcome such a powerful character. And in Forces, they just pretty much didn't bother with that. Sonic did the same exact things he has been for the past 5 main entries in the franchise..boost and homing attack.

When you show me Infinite can just dodge Sonic, I'm not gonna just forget that when their next encounter comes along, I'm gonna ask: why didn't he dodge Sonic that time? And if you don't tell my a good reason for it, I'm gonna call that crap writing.

Or gameplay to story segregation

[thumbs13]

Isn't infinite dodging sonic just a retread of the "he dodged my spin attack" stuff from RoL?

 

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

Isn't infinite dodging sonic just a retread of the "he dodged my spin attack" stuff from RoL?

Which is just a retread of Shadow CCing past Sonic in SA2.

But when your character's most defining trait is speed it's natural for your big new threat to challenge him on it.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Even the best superhero-type ensemble stories have trouble keeping character strengths/weaknesses consistent. Sonic the Hedgehog is among the worst. 

There’s your answer, OP. 

[Mountaindewandsprite]

Can't we just agree that the "Holy Trinity Male Hedgehogs" are all overpowered? I mean SEGA has been trying to make them the Saiyans of the Sonic series.

[Foxthefox1000]

Yes. But to be fair, a good amount of characters have the tools to be overpowered if SEGA did anything with them. Amy's tarot card thing combined with her speed, acrobatics, power, and the invisibility?

Rouge having the tools of a powerhouse while also being one of the most advanced in H2H and the ability to summon armor-piercing jewels, bombs, and other weapons while having the ability to fly at a speed that can keep up with Shadow?

Tails having the ability to scan a foe's weaknesses or his great knowledge from the Miles Electric and the info in can provide him while also having a huge arsenal of weapons and mechs with the added ability of flight on par with a moderate Sonic? The magic hands and materialzing bombs or arm cannon?

Knuckles having the stated ability to cancel the Emeralds and sense their locations, as well as having atom-splitting punches, geokinesis, and lots of others?

If they showed their abilities more often, then we'd be calling them all overpowered.

 

[Tarnish]

9 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Or gameplay to story segregation

That might be good enough for some people, but for me that just really ruins the immersion (if you can even talk about that in regards to a Sonic game) about the story they're trying to tell and (I assume) want me to be invested in.

"Oh don't worry, he's super powerful in the cutscenes, but I'm gonna kick his ass in the boss battle without breaking a sweat, cuz he's just gonna stand there and take the hit like a good little boss. "

Basically it comes down to: one set of abilities for the cutscenes, a different set of abilities for the gameplay.

20 minutes ago, Foxthefox1000 said:

with the added ability of flight on par with a moderate Sonic

When was the last time they showed that in a main Sonic game that wasn't Sonic Mania? Nowadays if you see him fly for 5 seconds, you could call that overpowered compared to his average representation.