After reading this, I've given up on Sonic Team...

[TargetWatch]

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamer.ne.jp%2Fnews%2F201708160001%2F

http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201708160001/

If you want to read it, just copy and paste the site and place it in the google translator link I've provided.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

Scandalous.

 

Also, this is kind of a nothing post, and the clickbaity title doesn't help.

[septimus01]

Nothing shows up in the translate box.

[TargetWatch]

12 minutes ago, septimus01 said:

Nothing shows up in the translate box.

Place the site in the translator box and then click on the link in the next box.

Unfortunately the translated link itself don't work.

[Diogenes]

I'm not going to read through a whole interview and then try to guess which part(s) of it you're upset about. If there's something specific you're looking to discuss, actually say something about it.

[TargetWatch]

Just now, Diogenes said:

I'm not going to read through a whole interview and then try to guess which part(s) of it you're upset about. If there's something specific you're looking to discuss, actually say something about it.

 

Quote

Mr. Iizuka: Conversely, the number of stages should have actually decreased. Since the schedule was pushing, I was considering cutting the middle of the way, but eventually I wanted to put the content as planned at the beginning, so I recorded it with full volume without decreasing it.

 

[ZERO_ninja]

So, you're mad at Sonic Team, because Izuka instead of treating Sonic Mania like almost any game from any company gets treated, he instead decided against it and gave it enough delay to implement absolutely everything planned without dropping any content? (Which is honestly so rare to ever happen in the industry it's staggering).

Sure I guess I can understand being really mad that a game didn't come out half finished. How I long for the days of Sonic 06 once again.

[Diogenes]

Okay so the way I'm reading that, he considered cutting some content in order to get the game out on time, but in the end he decided against it and let them finish the content that had been planned from the start.

I'm...not sure what part of that you're angry about.

[TargetWatch]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Okay so the way I'm reading that, he considered cutting some content in order to get the game out on time, but in the end he decided against it and let them finish the content that had been planned from the start.

I'm...not sure what part of that you're angry about.

It's the fact he considered cutting halfway to begin with. Granted he changed his mind, but damn. Opting to stop half way in Sonic Mania's development is absolutely ridiculous.

[ZERO_ninja]

Yep, so ridiculous it's how the entire industry works for practically every game ever. This is honestly the most normal thing in the industry and in many cases is absolutely necessary because it can often become prohibitively expensive to try to implement everything in most games. The take away from this should be "Man, Izuka is pretty cool for being brave enough to take the risk of bucking the industry trend". Not "my god, how dare he have been tempted to do what is required for most games to be profitable".

[Diogenes]

Cutting content to get a game out on time is not some heinous crime and certainly not in any way unique to Iizuka or Sonic Team. Even the very best developers have faced this choice, have sometimes chosen to make cuts, and have been right to do so.

There are plenty of good reasons to be pissed at Sonic Team. But this is the exact opposite of a good reason.

[TargetWatch]

Just now, Diogenes said:

Cutting content to get a game out on time is not some heinous crime and certainly not in any way unique to Iizuka or Sonic Team. Even the very best developers have faced this choice, have sometimes chosen to make cuts, and have been right to do so.

There are plenty of good reasons to be pissed at Sonic Team. But this is the exact opposite of a good reason.

I see.

[Chris Knopps]

Cut content to make deadline is the issue...?

Didn't they... Do this to all the games from the very start? Even the Genesis games lost content...

Sonic 2 lost an entire portion of its lore/plot to make deadline by stripping Hidden Palace...

Sonic 3 was split literally in half...

Not a new thing.

[Blue Wisp]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Sonic 2 lost an entire portion of its lore/plot to make deadline by stripping Hidden Palace... And Dust Hill and Winter Zone and Wood Zone and Cyber City/Genocide City and well like 20 other zones. 

[superman43]

2 minutes ago, Hard-Boiled Wisp said:

9 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Sonic 2 lost an entire portion of its lore/plot to make deadline by stripping Hidden Palace... And Dust Hill and Winter Zone and Wood Zone and Cyber City/Genocide City and well like 20 other zones. 

Would you play a game with 25+ zones with 2 acts each ? OMG

[Badnik Mechanic]

2 hours ago, TargetWatch said:

It's the fact he considered cutting halfway to begin with. Granted he changed his mind, but damn. Opting to stop half way in Sonic Mania's development is absolutely ridiculous.

What's more ridiculous is an overtly bloated game.

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, Mayor D said:

What's more ridiculous is an overtly bloated game.

We don't even get bloated Sonic games nowadays. They're all pretty bare-boned and generally short.

Heck, Lost World was literally just bits and pieces of masses thrown around together to jump on with a bottomless void at every angle with only a blurry background around you.

The last bloated game we had was Unleashed.

And it certainly left me satisfied because it was bloated.

[Cornelius Fudge]

I disagree with this premise. I'd much rather get my money's worth by waiting and actually having a game with plenty of quality content rather than spending the same amount to be disappointed by the lack of quality and quantity of content in the game. There is a time where developers should release the game prematurely such as Breath of the Wild due to very critical circumstances (i.e release with the launch of the Switch), but there's very little reason for Sonic Team to rush the game especially when it sounds like Forces is severely lacking in content or would be without the delay.

[Chris Knopps]

5 minutes ago, Cornelius Fudge said:

I disagree with this premise. I'd much rather get my money's worth by waiting and actually having a game with plenty of quality content rather than spending the same amount to be disappointed by the lack of quality and quantity of content in the game. There is a time where developers should release the game prematurely such as Breath of the Wild due to very critical circumstances (i.e release with the launch of the Switch), but there's very little reason for Sonic Team to rush the game especially when it sounds like Forces is severely lacking in content or would be without the delay.

 I don't think delays would help Forces, the company just doesn't have the budget to give for this kind of Sonic game yet Sonic Team are pushing it anyway.

You can tell it's pretty much Unleashed on a budget going by the visuals and 2D amount compared to 3D, plus the quality of the scenes/animations are pretty... Eh...

Then you have all of the re-used stuff going into the game too in order to save money.

[Cornelius Fudge]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

 I don't think delays would help Forces, the company just doesn't have the budget to give for this kind of Sonic game yet Sonic Team are pushing it anyway.

You can tell it's pretty much literally Unleashed on a budget going by the visuals and 2D amount compared to 3D, plus the quality of the scenes/animations are pretty... Eh...

That is plausible. I don't know if visuals are an indication of it, but they're definitely pushing it with the more dynamic background of the stages (Park Avenue/City Heights definitely) and the Hedgehog Engine 2 while also adhering to the limitations of the Switch, so the visual inadequacy might make sense, but you might be onto something with the abundance of 2D since the Custom Hero literally has no 2D. That could be a budget issue or it could be used as a means to rush content since implementing platforming in 2D is presumably easier than it is to do the same in 3D.

[Chris Knopps]

Just now, Cornelius Fudge said:

That is plausible. I don't know if visuals are an indication of it, but they're definitely pushing it with the more dynamic background of the stages (Park Avenue/City Heights definitely) and the Hedgehog Engine 2 while also adhering to the limitations of the Switch, so the visual inadequacy might make sense, but you might be onto something with the abundance of 2D since the Custom Hero literally has no 2D. That could be a budget issue or it could be used as a means to rush content since implementing platforming in 2D is presumably easier than it is to do the same in 3D.

I think it's both, lack of budget AND rushing the game combined that's damaging Forces.

[Blacklightning]

4 hours ago, superman43 said:

Would you play a game with 25+ zones with 2 acts each ? OMG

Sure, if it had a save feature. The problem is this is Sonic 2 we're talking about - they expect you to finish the entire game in a single sitting, which you're already pretty lucky to finish in under an hour in a casual playthrough.

Regardless, Sonic 2's still plenty complete without them, and they were able to recycle some of their ideas (namely Hidden Palace) into later games anyway, so I don't view it as a particularly huge loss. And even if Iizuka did the same for Mania, there's plenty of fat they could have cut and still had a game that felt finished regardless - some of the zones in there are so devoid of context they don't even have stage transitions for them.

[DonWaffleleven]

Iizuka not cutting stuff out of a game? Well with Classic Sonic in Sonic Forces, is anyone really surprised that he hates removing content from a game no matter how superfluous or unnecessary?