Jump to content
Won't Stop, Just Go

Sonic Crushes <3

Recommended Posts

Yeah removing the crushing death mechanic is something I wouldn't miss from Classic Sonic. Flatten him, make him lose all his rings or otherwise stop progress for a second, whatever. I've seen several playthroughs of Mania and nothing frustrates me more than seeing newcomers and such running into that pink water climb in Chemical Plant and dying instantly and not knowing why, then saying "see this is why I never liked Sonic"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WARNING!

A CHALLENGER APPROACHES!Screenshot_20170819-114529.thumb.png.85981325326617824022b6d7139a6c57.png

I never liked them. Added cheap difficulty especially these kind that move really fast plus you can't spin dash yet and if you're really slow, you're a hedgehog pancake served with a side of game overs.

But yeah, crushers in general are bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instant death is a pain in the ass in most games, regardless of what form it comes in, so I'd support "crush means damage" over "crush means death" on that alone. But crushing does seem to be especially annoying in Sonic, in part because his speed sometimes means zipping under one before you realize it's there, but also because (like Mechano said) the collision detection seems biased against the player more often than not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, there are too many times where I find myself paranoid about being squished by something not designed to do so... only for my anxiety to entirely justified after all.

Chemical Plant is the obvious offender but there is the other odd moment here and there in Mania where it's also an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I absolutely detest the spiked crushers from Marble Garden. Especially in that one section where there's two in a row, so you'll more often than not spin dash under one to be crushed under the other. Fuck those ones. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the only thing I really have against these things is honestly that their placement often relies on a more precise control scheme, despite the series by nature not having the most precise controls.  Like, sometimes they'll place them right beside each other so that when I get off one, I'm immediately on another.  The intent is that I land in the in between space.  But since the controls are momentum-based, it's not easy to turn around to avoid getting crushed.

And agreed with Mechano.  I can't count the number of times I've died because I was beside one as opposed to under it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My least favorite crushers are the ones from Fire and Ice because of how ineffective they are. Meanwhile, the many Colors crushers are very fun and a highlight of the title. Crushers that push you into the screen? Bouncy ones? YES! So fun to avoid and play around with.

 

More true to the title, I may as well do a cover of Mambo No. 5 for all my Sonic crushes. 

 

One, Two, CD, 3, and Knuckles

Everybody in the Egg-O-Matic FLY!

To The - Special Zone

 

I like Tikal, NICOLE, Honey, Blaze and Sonar!

And as they continue, they only gettin' sweeter.

A little bit of Cassia in my life

A little bit of Perci by my side

A little bit of Clove is all I need

A little bit of Sonia is what I see!

 

 

A little bit of Mina in the sun

A little bit of Tiara all night long

A little bit of Gala-Na, here I am. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mania spoiler:

 

This actually has be one of the most egregious examples. You're already in a boss fight here, and you can't see the top of the screen. So how the hell are you supposed to clock on to the fact that standing anywhere except the two central platforms is insta-death? That's actually bad design. The player doesn't stand a chance.

 IMG_6124.thumb.JPG.f24cd1ff4e58bf88d5dd5b17d01efc8d.JPG

Also the Lost Labyrinth boss was similarly bad.

320px-S4_Episode_1_Lost_Labyrinth_Boss.p

With both of these, it's one mistake and fuck you it's over. Crushing ought to be replaced with ring loss and possibly some sort of temporary incapacitation (slow/paralysed/dizzy for a few seconds afterwards?), just like in Generations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crushing scares me because it's one of those jump scares and I always get really tense around areas with smashing crushers. It's the reason Marble Garden isn't one of my favourite 3&K zones. There's often two of those fucking spike crushers in a row, and I die to the second one by clipping the side and it makes me jump every time. It's really bad with collision in most games as well, super biased towards killing you. Advance 3 is the worst for this. Fucking Toy Kingdom and it's tiny corners killing you, or Ocean Base having them in speedy sections where you can't possibly predict them.
 

It's actually not as bad when they're not smashing traps outside of Advance 3, but god damn. Then again, I don't really like instant kill in Sonic period unless it's drowning or a necessary evil bottomless pit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

annoying.png

Fuck this shit.

I don't think they've killed me since I was like 12

 

Advance 3 really sucks for it though, and it's one of the many flaws that make it the worst in the trilogy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh. Not the crushes that I was thinking of when I saw the title, but it fits I suppose.

In any case...three words: OCEAN. BASE. ZONE.

I love Advance 3, but it was chock full of this nonsense. Take the first act for example (spoiled for size)

Spoiler

h7jeyE4.jpg

A modest amount of crushers to be fair, as there could have been a lot more. But the catch? Just look at that enemy placement. Right as you run up a ramp preceded by speed boosters. Right after you shooting out of tube and try to steady yourself.  RIGHT INBETWEEN A SLIM GAP ON THE GROUND AND A PAIR OF SPIKES ON THE CEILING. ALL OF THEM OBSCURED BY THE CAMERA. ALL. OF. THEM.

And to make matters worse, most of these are the Crushers with hidden spikes! I can't tell how many times I died to one of those during my first few playthroughs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

two good ways to avoid the annoyance of these obstacles would be to:

1 - program the game so that only solid objects labeled as "crushers" have the ability to harm the player.

2 - test the shit out of the hitbox collision so that the player won't get crushed in a space that the characters could easily fit through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The hitbox issue is something that reared its head quite a bit in the classics, and may be one of the things Mania actually does significantly worse. I swear pinching and crushing does start to wear on you, especially when you feel like you should have been able to fit through that gap, or when you are clearly in the safe space next to an object going HULK SMASH.

As for the idea of damaging replacing insta-death, I do like the idea but I would throw another caveat out there for everyone to consider. When getting crushed, not only should it damage the player, but it should also remove the capability to recover any lost rings. I think thats the best of both worlds. Its still a severe penalty, but not the instant death that currently banes the franchise.

That way, we can focus all our anger and rage back where it belongs. On the Slicer conveniently placed just beyond the crushers waiting to pick off lost little Hedgehogs with zero rings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I...

On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 3:40 PM, Blue Blood said:

annoying.png

Fuck this shit.

yeah that.

Quote

One, Two, CD, 3, and Knuckles

Everybody in the Egg-O-Matic FLY!

To The - Special Zone

 

I like Tikal, NICOLE, Honey, Blaze and Sonar!

And as they continue, they only gettin' sweeter.

A little bit of Cassia in my life

A little bit of Perci by my side

A little bit of Clove is all I need

A little bit of Sonia is what I see!

 

 

A little bit of Mina in the sun

A little bit of Tiara all night long

A little bit of Gala-Na, here I am. 

A). This is the best thing I've seen all day B). No Rouge or Bunnie? I thought they were the Go-To Wiafu's. I know they're mine. Plus Sonic is Husbando.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, SBR2 said:

I...

yeah that.

A). This is the best thing I've seen all day B). No Rouge or Bunnie? I thought they were the Go-To Wiafu's. I know they're mine. Plus Sonic is Husbando.

Rouge and Bunnie will be in the second verse. 

 

A little bit of Bunnie in my life!

A little bit of Lara-Su by my side!

A little bit of Rouge is all I need!

A little bit of Amy is what I see!

 

A little bit of Hershey in the sun!

A little bit of Shade all the night long!

A little bit of Barby, here I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In future 2D games, I think making crushing an option in the settings menu might be an interesting idea to try. Crushing is rather cheap and unnecessary, but on the other hand, it is "tradition" and I'm sure some appreciate the challenge. To me, it personally isn't a big deal one way or another, and I would be fine with letting it stay (and almost want it for tradition's sake, if that isn't too dumb), but I haven't played all the 2D games, such as the Advance games, fwiw.

It's interesting how crushing (such as those black platforms with red on the bottom that smash down that I believe are both in SA2 and Heroes?) doesn't kill you in the 3D games, so maybe it shouldn't be such a foregone conclusion in the 2D ones either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know that one section of Chemical Plant? Fuck that one section of Chemical Plant.

Everyone I know has gotten crushed there at least once. I've gotten crushed there many times before.

Not to mention the section by itself is annoying, and you can get crushed with no warning because of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/19/2017 at 11:04 AM, Josh said:

What are your thoughts on crushers?

I enjoy them.  I like the intensity and difficulty they add in close-cut timing and platforming sections that force you to slow down.

It's really all or nothing too, even a single pixel catches you and you're done. Sucks getting caught by one of those, but that's the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm fine with crushers being an insta-kill, but I'm NOT fine with how easily it is to get crushed, even if it doesn't look like you should have. Just the slightest pinch will kill Sonic, and yeah, it's something that I see newcomers get super frustrated with and get turned off from Sonic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are definitely times where getting crushed feels unfair. The blocks in Chemical Plant come to mind. I'm also not a fan of sections with large moving block platforms that can very easily kill you (see: Casino Night), though I wouldn't classify those sections as unfair per se it's just...not fun? And this is from someone who doesn't mind slower experiences in Sonic, i.e. good ol' Labyrinth.

Aside from that, personally I like 'em. Nearly every Sonic game is pretty easy to me so I guess I welcome things that are at least slightly more likely to make me lose lives, within reason. But i'm not against nerfing them so you just take damage instead. This could even be something you can toggle in options, but that might be too specific an option for a relatively mainstream platformer game. Eh.

Spoiler

By the way when I first read this topic a few weeks ago, the title scared the hell out of me. Thanks Josh

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.