I think *the theory* is basically confirmed at this point *Mania Spoilers*

[Tracker_TD]

I don't mind the ending connection in Mania because I can easily interpret it as Sonic just returning from the Egg Reverie fight to Tails and Knuckles. The fact there's a connection to Forces is kinda daft (and it's mostly naff because Forces looks so bloody shite), but it's so subtle that I don't care as much as I thought I would in the event of a connection happening. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

3 hours ago, NoKaine said:

I'd say that you should lend me that copy you have, but I don't have a PS4. Or an Xbox One. Or a Switch. Or a good PC... I made myself sad.

[...]

First of all, shameless clone of Generations. Is that a bad thing? It wouldn't be, whether or not it's true. I also missed the part in Generations where Eggman took over the world, where his new thing was an independent character, where the returning villains were actual villains, and uh, it having original levels (and the Avatar, natch).

I would just like to respond to these two points.

 

1: Forces is shit. From everything we have seen and played it is not very good. The level design is bad. The UI is atrocious and even the music is pretty naff.

He doesn't need to have the full game because everything shown so far is bad. Of they start showing off some amazing things then maybe he'll change his stance on it. But right now... he's completely right.

 

2: The bit in bold.

Everything you just said is either story or window dressing. It has original levels... ok right. But they have boosters everywhere, automated segments and all the problems of the last 5 years... It doesn't matter if they're original or not if they have same level design decisions behind it they'll still be pants.

Can't we all just assume that Sonic us using the form to restore the zones to how they were?

OR using it to go somewhere that isn't Sonic Forces? Like Summer of Sonic?

[Meta77]

I'm looking forward to forces in every bit as much as mania.  I mean damn if you guys have the full game by god let me have it. Remember when the demo for 06 and e3 trailer looked kickass but we got what we did. I won't say something sucks till I play in full instead of going off people who 95%  gate anything starting with the word 3d
 

[Badnik Mechanic]

4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I'm looking forward to forces in every bit as much as mania.  I mean damn if you guys have the full game by god let me have it. Remember when the demo for 06 and e3 trailer looked kickass but we got what we did. I won't say something sucks till I play in full instead of going off people who 95%  gate anything starting with the word 3d
 

Lol this just completely proves my point. Yeah people liked that because it looked good then turned to trash.

Remember when Lyric looked like ass from day 1 and people said we shouldn't judge early stuff? Then it kept looking like ass. Then got released and it was ass, so we called it ass?

 

 We judge on what's presented not what might be.

[Jango]

@Meta77 You're missing the point. We have the right to judge what we were given.

And they gave us only shit.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

9 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

I'm looking forward to forces in every bit as much as mania.  I mean damn if you guys have the full game by god let me have it. Remember when the demo for 06 and e3 trailer looked kickass but we got what we did. I won't say something sucks till I play in full instead of going off people who 95%  gate anything starting with the word 3d
 

Dude, it's not about whether it's too early to judge. It's about the others being wrong about thinking it's bad. Get your story straight.

[Clewis]

4 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Remember when the demo for 06 and e3 trailer looked kickass but we got what we did

So you're saying Forces is going to end up being even worse than it looks now? 

Spoiler

Also I can't help but laugh every time someone uses the "I didn't know you had the game" bit in an attempt to defend Forces. Can someone please list one, just one, mainline Sonic game where a bunch of red flags existed before release, but the final product ended up being great in the end despite that? Because I can't think of any.

It's not like most people want to dislike Forces. What the hell does anyone get out of that?

 

[Jango]

Optimism I guess? 

[Graystripe2000]

56 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Forces is shit. From everything we have seen and played it is not very good. The level design is bad. The UI is atrocious and even the music is pretty naff.

He doesn't need to have the full game because everything shown so far is bad. Of they start showing off some amazing things then maybe he'll change his stance on it. But right now... he's completely right.

Oh really? Then why did Site staff say things like this about it? 

Quote

Sonic Forces doesn’t look like it’ll be a groundbreaking title, but it ought to be a very fun one. While the hero character is a potential chink in the armor, it doesn’t look like the disaster I thought it might be either. 

 

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/06/sonic-forces-e3-impressions-alexs-take/

Quote

 

Physics aside, Sonic Forces is looking to be a solid, above average Sonic title. I think Sonic Team have made the right choice to stick to proven game styles, with the new gimmick being pretty much “Sonic with weapons”. I doubt it will beat Sonic Mania in reviews or sales, but still, it appears we are getting two great Sonic games in one year. 

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/06/sonic-forces-e3-impressions-jasons-take/

There was even someone on the forums who played the game there and liked it. 

https://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/22243-sonic-forces-impressions/?do=findComment&comment=1124761  

Not to mention people like TailsChannel played it and liked it. In fact, the guy even expressed his views on Twitter.

Also, last I checked, you haven't played the game yourself that anyone knows of. And on top of that, he isn't "right" nor "wrong", as this is an opinion and is therefore completely subjective. 

EDIT: Can someone fix the second quote? As you can see, it didn't end where it should have and the editing is acting wonky.

[Meta77]

18 minutes ago, Clewis said:

So you're saying Forces is going to end up being even worse than it looks now? 

  Hide contents

Also I can't help but laugh every time someone uses the "I didn't know you had the game" bit in an attempt to defend Forces. Can someone please list one, just one, mainline Sonic game where a bunch of red flags existed before release, but the final product ended up being great in the end despite that? Because I can't think of any.

It's not like most people want to dislike Forces. What the hell does anyone get out of that?

 

Cause say 06. What red flags were there? The game in demo ran amazing. Trailers looked amazing. But we got a broken game with so much left out of the game aka rainbow  to a rushed story m

Most saying forces is going to sick are going off one stage and a demo shorter than my last relationship

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Cause say 06. What red flags were there? The game in demo ran amazing. Trailers looked amazing. But we got a broken game with so much left out of the game aka rainbow  to a rushed story m

Most saying forces is going to sick are going off one stage and a demo shorter than my last relationship

Bruh seriously. You can just think what's been shown doesn't look bad. I do. Lots of people feel the same way. They don't feel that way, but so what?

We need to quit hiding behind a "it's too early to say" excuse for obvious things like the gameplay. You can wait to judge all you want, but the rest of everyone can decide when they want to.

[Meta77]

8 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Bruh seriously. You can just think what's been shown doesn't look bad. I do. Lots of people feel the same way. They don't feel that way, but so what?

We need to quit hiding behind a "it's too early to say" excuse for obvious things like the gameplay. You can wait to judge all you want, but the rest of everyone can decide when they want to.

True and just like many many fans via Twitter and YouTube are just as excited for forces WITH what's been shown

 So yes some can be naive if that s what you want to think in being excited and others can have a stick up....well just hate on 3d games cause segas gonna keep making them seeing as modern Sonics more popular in japan

[Blue Blood]

18 minutes ago, Operationgamer17 said:

Oh really? Then why did Site staff say things like this about it? 

 

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2017/06/sonic-forces-e3-impressions-alexs-take/

I don't think you understand how opinions work. 

[Scar]

4 hours ago, Chameleon of the Spoilers said:

For you maybe, it's your opinion, a smart opinion, but there's people who genuinely care about the game, aka non classic fans.

You act as though we're all hating on Modern Sonic the character/design/whatever.

The reality is we're hating on the fact that Forces looks like its going to be yet more mediocre-at-best dross. Overly reliant on Generations; a 6 year old game that was barely more than above-average. It adds a fucking ridiculous gimmick of create a character, while sidelining existing characters to just be annoying little shits that talk endlessly via a walkie-talkie. 

Goddamn it the idea of Eggman having taken over the world and Sonic leading a resistance to overthrow him could have been incredible. Fuck it could have yielded in a pretty amazing duology or trilogy with an overarching story. They could have made a game with  a new gameplay paradigm that isn't as shallow and unsustainable as the Boost formula with a new approach to level design and a passing attempt at proper physics. Then they could if they so choose, add other playable characters (Tails, Knuckles - maybe even Amy or Shadow or whatever) that have their own unique playstyle that is based on a modified version of Sonic's gameplay. They could then give each characters access to different areas/paths within the same levels - perhaps even a couple of unique stages and/or change the order they play the stages in.

See that would have been so sweet.

Sadly, they've given us Sonic Generations 2: Create your own Boogaloo, and may have even tried to use the success of Mania; a wildly different game that is the passion project of a long-time fan of the series, as a means of maybe generating a few extra sales.

 

I'm looking forward to forces in every bit as much as mania.  I mean damn if you guys have the full game by god let me have it. Remember when the demo for 06 and e3 trailer looked kickass but we got what we did.

 

Na na na, Sonic Team don't have the luxury of being given the benefit of the doubt. Its not like they've come off the back of a long string of critically acclaimed "game of the year" quality titles that they deserve a chance when presenting something that at first glance looks like a total disappointment.

I call things as I see them. I see garbage that demonstrates that either Sonic Team has learned nothing from their past mistakes by way of game/level design, or are so burnt out that they don't give enough of a shit to try. Boosters everywhere that funnel you down a narrow corridor. Boosters into boosters into boosters in the "classic" stages for fuck's sake.

You could say all this BS about "oh its just the first couple of levels, later modern stages might be more open and later classic ones might not have so much needless automatin", but that's fucking bullshit as far as I'm concerned. If they learned out to design games that are more open and don't rely on automation, there would be evidence of that changed mentality from level zero. They would most certainly not arbitrarily hold back the good game design for later stages and have shitty opening stages.

Quote

I won't say something sucks till I play in full instead of going off people who 95%  hate anything starting with the word 3d

Nobody hates anything 3D. Many of us are actually clamouring to have a truly great 3D Sonic game. We have been for15 goddamn years. The problem is so far, we've been fed crap, and I'm sorry, but as I mentioned, its too late for Sonic Team to have the benefit of the doubt. They need to deliver from day 1, or else they're gonna receive criticism from the off.

 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

23 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

So yes some can be naive if that s what you want to think in being excited and others can have a stick up....well just hate on 3d games cause segas gonna keep making them seeing as modern Sonics more popular in japan

Nobody here is hating on 3D Sonic games. They're hating on the aspects of Forces that they don't like, and there's nothing wrong with that.(imeantheycanbekindarudebutthatsbesidethepoint)

Sonic is also not popular in Japan, not compared to the US, Europe, and (Brazil?) at least.

[Scar]

38 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

True and just like many many fans via Twitter and YouTube are just as excited for forces WITH what's been shown

 So yes some can be naive if that s what you want to think in being excited and others can have a stick up....well just hate on 3d games cause segas gonna keep making them seeing as modern Sonics more popular in japan

Nobody's telling you to not be excited. If you enjoy what you've seen and end up enjoying the full game, all the power to you. You can be as excited as you want.

Thing is, just as you have the right to be excited, we too reserve the right to be annoyed/un-excited.

And once again. We don't hate Forces because its 3D. We hate it, because it is the living embodiment of what's wrong with the way SEGA/Sonic Team are handling their beloved property and looks to be yet another poorly designed game. We hate it because its bad. Not because its 3D.

[Auroxen]

So... I predicted the connection a long time ago and am not mad about it
Surprisingly, I am kind of excited about it, I dunno if it's continuity starvation but I'm glad to see two new Sonic games connected
And it kind of makes me slighty less annoyed at Classic Sonic in Sonic Forces... I dunno exactly why but I can look at him and think that he is the same exact Sonic I used in Sonic Mania and like him more

I'll put my old theory under spoiler because I'm now convinced that it could be true, I originally posted it in the Sonic Mania megathread (beware of Mania and Forces spoilers)

Spoiler

 

Now I'm convinced the game will be linked to Sonic Forces; I also think this is an alternative timeline / universe from the other Sonic games, branching out at the end of Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
I know it sounds weird but let me explain.
Spoiler warning for some details that have been revealed about Sonic Forces.

After Sonic 3 & Knuckles there could be two timelines: one in which Sonic 4 (and then all the next games) takes place and the other in which Sonic Mania (and any eventual new Classic Sonic game) takes place.
The Eggman from Sonic Forces uses a new energy source (Infinite maybe?) to travel to various points in time and (maybe as an accident or maybe intentionally) he ends up in the Mania timeline. We now know the Phantom Ruby is a thing and it is likely linked to Infinite
This is the new energy source that kickstarts the events of Mania, which I guess will end with Mania's Sonic travelling to Sonic Forces' time, explaining why he's in that game.
I think Forces' Classic Sonic is Mania's Sonic because during the Classic Sonic boss fight in Sonic Forces that was revealed months ago Eggman addresses Classic Sonic as a "pint-sized Sonic from another dimension" which I think could also mean an alternative timeline.
I think at the end of Forces Classic Sonic will return to Mania's timeline, officially separating the continuity of eventual Mania sequels and eventual new 3D games.

 

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

12 hours ago, Operationgamer17 said:

Oh really? Then why did Site staff say things like this about it? 

Because we don't all live in North Korea and we're allowed to have differing opinions without being arrested? 

[Ratcicle King]

13 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I'm looking forward to forces in every bit as much as mania.  I mean damn if you guys have the full game by god let me have it. Remember when the demo for 06 and e3 trailer looked kickass but we got what we did. I won't say something sucks till I play in full instead of going off people who 95%  gate anything starting with the word 3d
 

The thing about the ''how do you know it's bad'' mentality, is that it's a two way road. And by that I mean how do YOU know it's going to be good if you didn't play it?

And people are judging it based on previews. You know, those things developers release as a ''this is an example of how the game will be like''. 

[Graystripe2000]

1 hour ago, Mayor D said:

Because we don't all live in North Korea and we're allowed to have differing opinions without being arrested? 

I was referring to when you said everything we've played. You made it seem like the folks on here that played it hated it.

[Blue Blood]

It's really no coincidence that the final boss music sounds like Fist Bump from about 53 seconds in:

Now what if Forces used the HBHs in place Shadow, Metal, Zavok and Chaos, with the King in place of Infinite? Not that that would fix Forces, but I want to say it would make things more likeable on a story front.

[pppp]

13 hours ago, Meta77 said:

So yes some can be naive if that s what you want to think in being excited and others can have a stick up....well just hate on 3d games cause segas gonna keep making them seeing as modern Sonics more popular in japan

Again, or maybe we have standards, sorry if we don't just blindly eat up anything Sonic Team throws at us.

[knuckles20]

15 hours ago, Scar said:

 

And once again. We don't hate Forces because its 3D. We hate it, because it is the living embodiment of what's wrong with the way SEGA/Sonic Team are handling their beloved property and looks to be yet another poorly designed game. We hate it because its bad. Not because its 3D.

Also this "3D game" appears to have more 2D than 3D. Which has been a running trend since Colors.

[Red Hot Jack]

16 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

I don't think you understand how opinions work. 

You don't need our approval for your opinion, you can hate the game, we can defend it. Duh.

[Sega DogTagz]

3 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Now what if Forces used the HBHs in place Shadow, Metal, Zavok and Chaos, with the King in place of Infinite? Not that that would fix Forces, but I want to say it would make things more likeable on a story front.

I dunno bout that. People whining about Shadow aside, staring down those four in the trailer has probably been the most successful piece of bait the game has going for it. For one, it essentially assures Shadow a role in the story beyond yard decoration, and Chaos and Metal are fan favorites. People do want to see them... Well maybe not Zavok, but you get the point.

Bringing in the wacky HBH would change the entire tone. It would change the vibe they were going for.

And for the love of God we have enough mute characters in this game. At least Zavok and Shadow can talk (Metal might be able to, but probably not, and Chaos can at least garble).