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Speedi

Sonic Forces: New Tag Team level confirmed

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21 minutes ago, Speedi said:

 

forces.jpg

so that's what the double-dash looks like.

the bird design made me think of the army tails annihilated in tails adventure

infinite still loves his boxes

Zavok is still standing there to this very day

is that avatar flying? 

that stage looks beautiful.

Drill confirmed wispon.

that's all i have to say

 

PFFT! i Just realised classic sonic is nowhere to be seen! 

Edited by sonicdudeatdawn
Classic is missing! GOOD

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45 minutes ago, Speedi said:

New info! We've got some screens of the tag level which looks like it might be the inside of that pyramid Knuckles was talking about. As well as what appears to be an interview with Shun Nakamura, but I don't know if it's been translated yet.

 

forces.jpg

My damn body is ready!

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Tech advisor shared thoughts:

Quote

As mentioned above, Tag Team is a new game mode featured in Sonic Forces that was announced at Gamescom 2017. Tag Team is essentially what it says on the tin - Sonic and your hero character join up to take on particularly challenging levels together.
The interesting part? You control both characters at the same time, swapping between each character based on the skills necessary (don’t worry, the swap is automatic!).
As with the Hero Character mode, controlling two heroes at the same time brings something new to the game, and comes with its own challenges like the difference in jump distances between characters - we were stuck at one part of the game when our hero character couldn’t quite make the jump that Sonic could without a sufficient pace.
It can be a little frustrating at times, but it may be something that’s tweaked before the game comes out later this year.

These are good signs! Someone put this game in my hand now!

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EDIT: @sonicdudeatdawn just beat me to it ;) 

http://www.techadvisor.co.uk/review/games/sonic-forces-preview-3663126/

Points to note from Tech Advisor's Gamescon impressions:

Tag Team
As mentioned above, Tag Team is a new game mode featured in Sonic Forces that was announced at Gamescom 2017. Tag Team is essentially what it says on the tin - Sonic and your hero character join up to take on particularly challenging levels together.
The interesting part? You control both characters at the same time, swapping between each character based on the skills necessary (don’t worry, the swap is automatic!).
As with the Hero Character mode, controlling two heroes at the same time brings something new to the game, and comes with its own challenges like the difference in jump distances between characters - we were stuck at one part of the game when our hero character couldn’t quite make the jump that Sonic could without a sufficient pace.
It can be a little frustrating at times, but it may be something that’s tweaked before the game comes out later this year 

 

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The swap being automatic would ease my concerns about having to manually switch when you need the right character. Though it would've been less clunky than Heroes with only two characters.

3 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

http://www.techadvisor.co.uk/review/games/sonic-forces-preview-3663126/

Points to note from Tech Advisor's Gamescon impressions:

Tag Team
As mentioned above, Tag Team is a new game mode featured in Sonic Forces that was announced at Gamescom 2017. Tag Team is essentially what it says on the tin - Sonic and your hero character join up to take on particularly challenging levels together.
The interesting part? You control both characters at the same time, swapping between each character based on the skills necessary (don’t worry, the swap is automatic!).
As with the Hero Character mode, controlling two heroes at the same time brings something new to the game, and comes with its own challenges like the difference in jump distances between characters - we were stuck at one part of the game when our hero character couldn’t quite make the jump that Sonic could without a sufficient pace.
It can be a little frustrating at times, but it may be something that’s tweaked before the game comes out later this year 

Horizontal platforming is a bit diluted since Sonic can boost, so it might be a case of actually having to time your jumps with the Avatar.

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7 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

Horizontal platforming is a bit diluted since Sonic can boost, so it might be a case of actually having to time your jumps with the Avatar.

The author phrased that a bit weirdly. He said that the jump was something that Sonic could clear easily, but the Avatar requires a sufficient pace to make the jump. So it's not a matter of timing, but of speed.

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So... if the game is divided in stories (I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere), what if the tag team levels are played multiple times?

Like Sky Chase in Sonic Adventure, a tag team level with the Avatar and Modern Sonic would have to be played once in Sonic's story and once in the Avatar's story

Maybe this is also a way to make the game longer without actually creating more content

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9 minutes ago, Auroxen said:

So... if the game is divided in stories (I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere), what if the tag team levels are played multiple times?

Like Sky Chase in Sonic Adventure, a tag team level with the Avatar and Modern Sonic would have to be played once in Sonic's story and once in the Avatar's story

Maybe this is also a way to make the game longer without actually creating more content

IIRC, it was mis-translated.

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I'm kind of glad the tag stages only appear to have Sonic in them. It's annoying enough that Sonic's friends aren't playable in this game, so having them appear as teammates would have felt like Sega is rubbing it in. It would be like, "Ha, the others aren't playable, and we're just going to shove them in each level, to keep teasing you."

I still wish the others were playable... I really want another 3d Sonic game that allows Tails, Knuckles, and Amy to be playable again, along with others like Silver and Blaze. We've already had 3 Sonic games that use the boost gameplay, yet Sonic was the only playable character in those 3 games. Now we're getting a 4th, yet Sonic is still basically the only playable character. Even the Avatars play similarly to Sonic, except they have no spin jump, or spin attack, and can only shoot wisps from their guns or use a grappling hook. It doesn't really sound that exciting. 

So far, the gameplay only seems to contain controlling two Sonics, and a generic custom character that relies on using gadgets. Imagine how much more fun it would have been to be able to fly as Tails, punch as Knuckles, hammer swing as Amy, use psychic abilities as Silver, or burn things as Blaze? Instead, we're once again stuck with 2 Sonics, and a forced upon mechanic that panders to one of the most embarrassing parts of the Sonic Fandom... 

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Quote

and a forced upon mechanic that panders to one of the most embarrassing parts of the Sonic Fandom... 

That seems like a you problem honestly. "Oh no, they'll appealing to the "embarrassing" (pff, as if they're the only embarrassing part of the fandom) fanbase, who'll just... make the characters they like. Oh no."

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21 hours ago, Jack the Rookie said:

Sorry I don't see the corridor.

Its right here. Literally a straight line. Level design seems to have regressed from Generations.....

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6 minutes ago, Scar said:

Its right here. Literally a straight line. Level design seems to have regressed from Generations.....

Sonic-Generations-Screenshots-8.jpg

Literally a straight line. SMH Sonic Team, this "Sonic Generations" better be good, because this level design isn't!

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5 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

Sonic-Generations-Screenshots-8.jpg

Literally a straight line. SMH Sonic Team, this "Sonic Generations" better be good, because this level design isn't!

Green Hill Zone isn't an amazingly designed stage by any metric either to be brutally honest. However it does have quite a lot more going for it than this one and its design is at least coherent - not flipping styles midway through for no apparent reason beyond justifying co-up mode.

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4 minutes ago, Scar said:

Green Hill Zone isn't an amazingly designed stage by any metric either to be brutally honest. 

You're right.

Wait, which Green Hill are we talking about? Forces or Generations?

I'm just interested on why somehow a straight line in Generations means nothing for it, but a straight line in Forces means worse than Generations.

Quote

However it does have quite a lot more going for it than this one and its design is at least coherent - not flipping styles midway through for no apparent reason beyond justifying co-up mode.

"Switching styles"? They're the same  thing, only one boosts and one uses the wisps! Basically it's Sonic Colors.

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15 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

Sonic-Generations-Screenshots-8.jpg

Literally a straight line. SMH Sonic Team, this "Sonic Generations" better be good, because this level design isn't!

....People were worried about this level before the game came out too.

Generations just proved itself because the other levels weren't like this one...

 

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1 minute ago, NoKaine said:

I'm just interested on why somehow a straight line in Generations means nothing for it, but a straight line in Forces means worse than Generations.

Scar literally just said it wasn't great in Generations either.

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4 minutes ago, Josh said:

....People were worried about this level before the game came out too.

Generations just proved itself because the other levels weren't like this one...

 

 

3 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Scar literally just said it wasn't great in Generations either.

No way. No way?

He says that Forces' level design, the whole game, regresses because one level starts in a straight line. I argue that Generations, in pretty much the same section of a similar level, also had pretty much the same thing. So it gets off from that because the rest of the game has better level design? 

So, we don't see the problem here then?

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14 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

You're right.

Wait, which Green Hill are we talking about? Forces or Generations?

I'm just interested on why somehow a straight line in Generations means nothing for it, but a straight line in Forces means worse than Generations.

Both? Green Hill in Generations is a pretty poor level. Looks nice, but its almost completely boost2win. Windmill Isle Act 1 and 2 were in my honest estimation, quite a lot more involving.  

Also its worse than Generations because you jump up some steps, then basically boost to the checkpoint, then you enter "Double Boost Cutscene mode" and blast through a straight line with negligible player input at all, before arriving at the next part of the level.

Quote

"Switching styles"? They're the same  thing, only one boosts and one uses the wisps! Basically it's Sonic Colors.

It does switch styles. The platforming inside the pyramid evidently appears to be not suited to using Sonic, so you basically have to switch to your Avatar character and use his gimmicks abilities to effortlessly defeat waves of enemies that do literally sweet fuck all, and wait for the next platform to lower itself, so you can move on. Its completely at odds with the modern sonic boost formula which at its best, is about flow. If your understanding of the level layout and reflexes are on point you can effortlessly flow through platforming challenges by exploiting Sonic's basic abilities (boost, airboost, stomp, etc.). Here you're forced to stop and fight some enemies that pose no threat before being allowed to continue.

If you choose to use the lightning/green wisp - the one that lets you travel across trails of rings, you can basically skip all the platforming completely. This is the opposite. You have too much flow. Continuing requires no skill - homing attack the wisp box, push a single button to skip vast areas of level.

Its either, stop and fight minions, or push a button to skip level.

This doesn't strike me as coherent or competent design. 

EDIT:

To add a bit to that last point. I consider Generations to be better, because it understands what Sonic's basic abilities are and focuses on designing levels that require you to master those basic abilities. It knows it wants to be a high-octane action platformer where getting to the end fast is the goal, and succeeds in designing levels that allow you to do exactly that. The worst level in Generations; Planet Wisp, is the one level where they decide to go against what the formula is about and force you to use gimmicks like the Rocket or Spike wisps to solve really boring puzzles that break up the flow of each respective act.

Forces is doing that breaking up flow shit right from the get-go it seems. And for what? A heroes-styled co-op mode.

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There's nothing unreasonable about forming opinions based entirely on what we've seen of the game so far. And yes, there's certainly a possibility that the level design'll become more complex as the game goes on, but that doesn't matter much until we've actually seen it for ourselves.

Like...we're comparing stances on two games, one that's been out for years, and one that we've only seen two Zones from. Of course nobody can claim that literally this entire game is going to be a regression from Generations, but nobody's actually doing that by saying "Oh, this level isn't as good as it was in Generations."

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2 minutes ago, Celestia said:

There's nothing unreasonable about forming opinions based entirely on what we've seen of the game so far. And yes, there's certainly a possibility that the level design'll become more complex as the game goes on, but that doesn't matter much until we've actually seen it for ourselves.

Like...we're comparing stances on two games, one that's been out for years, and one that we've only seen two Zones from. Of course nobody can claim that literally this entire game is going to be a regression from Generations, but nobody's actually doing that by saying "Oh, this level isn't as good as it was in Generations."

Exactly.

While I don't think Green Hill in Gens is a good level, it is for my money a much more tightly designed stage than this. That isn't to say I'm ignoring its flaws, both Generations Hill Zone and Forces Hill Zone are both bad - its just I think the latter is worse than the former.

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