Sonic Forces Theories

[Whatever the WhoCares]

3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Bit of an old post, and I don't mean this as an attack on you or anything, but I've really got to say how legitimately repulsive this theory is to me. To take a cool, interesting, and overall positively received character, and the series's strongest female character to boot, and have her role in the game be getting captured, tortured, and brainwashed/possessed/whatever, just so there can be some extra drama when the mask comes off...it's honestly really gross, and I can't imagine any Blaze fan actually being happy about it.

God forbid we make the strongest female character even more powerful, right? And if you really want to bring gender into the mix, wouldn't it also be a positive statement to make it a surprise that Infinite is actually female?

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

God forbid we make the strongest female character even more powerful, right?

What? Where does that even figure into this? It'd be shitty because it'd be a cool and competent female character basically being fridged for really cheap drama.

1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

And if you really want to bring gender into the mix, wouldn't it also be a positive statement to make it a surprise that Infinite is actually female?

A character you assumed was male turning out to actually be female is kind of a lame cliche. It's even worse if it's just some last-minute twist, and it's garbage if it involves stomping all over an existing character to do so.

[GuyWithThePie]

I really doubt Infinite is going to be an already-established character.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:What? Where does that even figure into this? It'd be shitty because it'd be a cool and competent female character basically being fridged for really cheap drama.

If by "fridged" you mean "given superpowers," then I'm at a loss for how to explain why you're wrong here. It would be badass as hell for Blaze to go through that, not to mention Amy has definitely become much more independent since last we saw her anyway. Not to mention, your avatar could be female. We'd also get a few politically-charged mainstream game journalist articles about it, thus increasing sales.  

 

[SonicLegends]

Just now, GuyWithThePie said:

I really doubt Infinite is going to be an already-established character.

Agreed, not to mention to throw out Infinite being a female.

Iizuka: Although he is evil, he is not created from an abrupt incident like Chaos, but he is instead an animal character just like Sonic & the others. If you play the free DLC of Shadow’s story, you’ll get to understand why he obtains a powerful strength and becomes evil.

Iizuka has continuously stated Infinite as a "HE" so that should be thrown out the window if the fact Infinite's male voice wasn't enough.

[Diogenes]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

If by "fridged" you mean "given superpowers,"

She already has superpowers. She doesn't need more, and nothing good could come from her being captured and brainwashed just for a cheap dramatic reveal at the end even if that also gave her more powers.

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

... not to mention Amy has definitely become much more independent since last we saw her anyway. Not to mention, your avatar could be female.

...what in the hell are you even talking about? What does this have to do with anything?

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, Diogenes said:

She already has superpowers. She doesn't need more, and nothing good could come from her being captured and brainwashed just for a cheap dramatic reveal at the end even if that also gave her more powers.

...what in the hell are you even talking about? What does this have to do with anything?

Are you deliberately trolling? How could you possibly not know what I'm talking about? You're talking about the strong female character getting fridged, I'm telling you that's not the case plus the game is adding strong female characters, and you're just gonna play dumb now?

[SonicLegends]

11 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

She already has superpowers. She doesn't need more, and nothing good could come from her being captured and brainwashed just for a cheap dramatic reveal at the end even if that also gave her more powers.

To add to that Infinite (if the Phantom Ruby is sentient) not using their host's already established powers in this case Blaze's fire abilities would be incredibly stupid to hide away when Infinite is supposed to be causing destruction with everything they got and fire FIRE of all things spreads out causing destruction. You would think someone like Eggman would want to improve upon a power that literally burns the world to ashes so that he can recreate it in his own image.

All the more reason why Infinite being Blaze is just what I can say 100% not happening.

[Nuggets]

41 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

God forbid we make the strongest female character even more powerful, right? And if you really want to bring gender into the mix, wouldn't it also be a positive statement to make it a surprise that Infinite is actually female?

idk about you but a woman getting captured and experimented on for an extended period of time to become a mindless tool for someone else doesn't really scream woman power to me 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Ok, now that we've established that Infinite isn't going to be Blaze, this argument isn't going anywhere. It's two philosophical viewpoints that can't be reconciled. 

[Diogenes]

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Are you deliberately trolling? How could you possibly not know what I'm talking about?

Because you're spouting nonsense.

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

You're talking about the strong female character getting fridged, I'm telling you that's not the case

If this theory was true, it would be, though. They'd be taking a female character who's on par with Sonic, having her lose offscreen to a guy she's beaten before, turning her into a prop by having her get brainwashed/possessed or ruining her character by turning her into an angsty edgelord, for what? Just so we/the characters can go "oh no it was Blaze all along! Eggman's so evil and nasty for doing this to her, we've got to stop him!" That's fridgy as all hell.

Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

plus the game is adding strong female characters, and you're just gonna play dumb now?

What they do with other female characters has nothing to do with what they're (hypothetically) doing to Blaze. They don't get a free pass on dumb ideas just because Amy can work a radio and the Avatar character can smash some robots.

[Osmium]

@Whatever the WhoCares What you're saying sounds dangerously close to the "girl power" cliches that used to be around where the girl character had to be the strongest and most competent because they are the girl. 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Now for why I originally clicked this thread today:

Does anyone have any theories as to why the Chaos Emeralds aren't in the trophy list? My guess would be that this game is reverting to the style of collecting them automatically through the story. 

 

[SatAMhog]

Sorry all, I didn't mean for the theory to turn into an all-out argument. x_X  To be fair, it's not like this is a new plot device.  There have been plenty of times in the media where Robotnik has captured the characters and turned them against the good guys whether they be boy or girl...ie Sonic turned in to Mecha Sonic in Mecha Madness, Sally into Mecha Sally...I just find the idea of what is essentially an alternate version of Sonic and turning them against Sonic and the good guys would be a good story idea but I would like the good guys to know that's it that character.  You can also show the internal struggle...ie maybe Robotnik's attempts to brainwash Blaze didn't completely work and she's fighting back against him even now.  Sonic can attempt to talk to Blaze like in Sonic Rush when they first met when she's hesitating using her powers on the good guys.  I'd like to see something like that, but I know we MOST LIKELY will not see that here...though the Fist Bump scene is looking a bit promising.  I love Infinite's design though, I hope we get to play as s/he in the game.

1 minute ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Now for why I originally clicked this thread today:

Does anyone have any theories as to why the Chaos Emeralds aren't in the trophy list? My guess would be that this game is reverting to the style of collecting them automatically through the story. 

 

Seeing as how Infinite is the main focus and the reason for Eggman's victory,I'd say it'll be like Sonic 3 and Knuckles where the Chaos Emeralds were a side prize and the Master Emerald was the main prize....the Phantom Ruby is the new Master Emerald that Eggman is using to everlasting glee.  The Chaos Emeralds will be in the story, but they won't be as important as they have been in past games.

[NegaMix]

9 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Now for why I originally clicked this thread today:

Does anyone have any theories as to why the Chaos Emeralds aren't in the trophy list? My guess would be that this game is reverting to the style of collecting them automatically through the story.

I think that's basically it. The Chaos Emeralds are most likely gonna be collected by the heroes over the course of the story, much like how Unleashed and (technically) Generations did it. Maybe Classic Sonic will be prioritising the Emeralds, while Modern and the Avatar focus on liberating the world from Eggman.

At least that gives the little guy something to do throughout this game.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

23 minutes ago, Captain Metallix said:

I think that's basically it. The Chaos Emeralds are most likely gonna be collected by the heroes over the course of the story, much like how Unleashed and (technically) Generations did it. Maybe Classic Sonic will be prioritising the Emeralds, while Modern and the Avatar focus on liberating the world from Eggman.

At least that gives the little guy something to do throughout this game.

Adding to that, I think this would present a nice way for the characters to discover that Chaos isn't real this time. Maybe Sonic notices the way Chaos is glitching out, so he throws an Emerald at him to test if he's the real deal. Chaos fails to absorb it, exposing himself as a fake. 

Edit: Granted, that would literally be the smartest writing since Eggman tricked Sonic and Tails in SA2. ("How did you know the Emerald was fake?" "Because you just told me, fox boy!")

[SatAMhog]

6 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

Adding to that, I think this would present a nice way for the characters to discover that Chaos isn't real this time. Maybe Sonic notices the way Chaos is glitching out, so he throws an Emerald at him to test if he's the real deal. Chaos fails to absorb it, exposing himself as a fake. 

Why would you want him to be a fake? We haven't seen Chaos in a long time and for him just to be a cheap illusion wouldn't be very compelling a reason to include him in Forces.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

2 minutes ago, SatAMhog said:

Why would you want him to be a fake? We haven't seen Chaos in a long time and for him just to be a cheap illusion wouldn't be very compelling a reason to include him in Forces.

I don't, but have you seen him in the footage? He probably is. 

[Dr. Mechano]

1 hour ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

It would be badass as hell for Blaze to go through that

I don't think being corrupted or possessed or otherwise turned into a villain against her will is "badass." It makes her a victim who needs to be rescued - except the method of rescuing her is hitting her until she turns back to normal.

Whether or not you personally see a problem with that is up to you, but it's still a move that totally robs Blaze of any agency and - thus - anything powerful or grandiose that Infinite does isn't really a reflection on Blaze, since it's not done out of her own free will. This takes power away from her in the truest sense; Not in terms of super abilities, but in terms of her ability to make her own choices.

So it's not surprising that Blaze fans would be pretty unhappy with it.

 

tl;dr - Infinite being a corrupted Blaze is no more a reflection of Blaze's "badassery" than Bowletta being a possessed Bowser is a reflection of his coolness or competence. It may be their body wielding these powers and being the ultimate threat, but it's done against their will, and thus isn't a reflection of anything cool or interesting about them as characters.

[Diogenes]

15 minutes ago, SatAMhog said:

Why would you want him to be a fake? We haven't seen Chaos in a long time and for him just to be a cheap illusion wouldn't be very compelling a reason to include him in Forces.

I struggle to think of a compelling reason for Chaos to be here at all. Chaos had very specific reasons for being "evil" in SA, and I don't see any reasonable way to recreate that situation. So there's some kind of bullshit going on, whether it's mind control, alternate dimension version, or just a straight up fake version.

[Dr. Mechano]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

I struggle to think of a compelling reason for Chaos to be here at all. Chaos had very specific reasons for being "evil" in SA, and I don't see any reasonable way to recreate that situation. So there's some kind of bullshit going on, whether it's mind control, alternate dimension version, or just a straight up fake version.

Like, it's possible Infinite scooped up angry vengeful Chaos from the past? It's still not really compelling, but it would make sense if the Chaos in this game is Chaos circa (or prior to) SA1.

I mean, that'd screw with the timeline and causality and everything, but it's not like this series hasn't already chucked any semblance of serious continuity out the window.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Like, it's possible Infinite scooped up angry vengeful Chaos from the past? It's still not really compelling, but it would make sense if the Chaos in this game is Chaos circa (or prior to) SA1.

I mean, that'd screw with the timeline and causality and everything, but it's not like this series hasn't already chucked any semblance of serious continuity out the window.

That was my assumption until I saw him glitching out in the trailer. If that happens frequently when he appears, it's going to be comical if the characters don't notice. 

[Indigo Rush]

The glitching is literally because the game itself was glitching. There was a similar instance with Eggman's mustache in the same trailer, unless you wanna tell me Eggman's mustache is fake.

 

Spoiler

That Omochao quote talking about the "doctor's mustache being fake" is actually in regards to the principal in the Chao Kindergarten, so I don't wanna hear that joke either.

 

[Yuluga]

they are filtering many things to this day ...

Spoiler

As Eggman will betray Infinity and will be the final enemy of the game. Look that there were doubts of Eggman in the forum as final enemy, but Eggman does not disappoint since Sonic Colors, has been improving the character and also Iizuka is very fan of Eggman.

http://www.jeuxvideo.com/forums/42-3008844-53307799-1-0-1-0-liste-des-leaks-connue-spoiler-alert.htm

[Razule]

2 hours ago, Yuluga said:

they are filtering many things to this day ...

  Reveal hidden contents

As Eggman will betray Infinity and will be the final enemy of the game. Look that there were doubts of Eggman in the forum as final enemy, but Eggman does not disappoint since Sonic Colors, has been improving the character and also Iizuka is very fan of Eggman.

http://www.jeuxvideo.com/forums/42-3008844-53307799-1-0-1-0-liste-des-leaks-connue-spoiler-alert.htm

Quote

 

- Sonic Force would take its place in his own universe / canon (again), G.U.N. and humans would not be present [same source as legit leak / awaiting official confirmation].

Uh.. just going to assume the leaker was confused and actually referring to the two worlds thing. If not then.. holy crap, does that "every game is in its bubble" stuff still count?! Good grief, classic and modern are in different dimensions, the games take place on two planets, and now this.. nah, the leaker must be mistaken, two worlds is as far as I go.