Sonic Forces devs to teach what good level design is about

[Mors]

28 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

 

This is actually what they should have done. This isn't the easiest platforming section ever but as long as there's a bottom pathway too this isn't really that bad.

I mean, I know there's a bottomless pit, this is a Sonic Team game. But the fact they are showing this screenshot as a "bad example" with the reasoning of "too hard" makes very little sense because you can make this level design work better than what's currently there.

I really don't think they gave any thought to this whole thing at all. I don't even know why they even bothered.

[Milo]

The slideshows / presentation seem pretty intent on hammering in the notion that level design that includes elements that condition the player to slow down is a Bad Thing^TM.

"Speedy feeling by getting thorns and getting the rings"

"It is pleasant to knock down enemy fast"

"Speedy feeling feels good avoiding thorns"

"Mistakes hitting a thorn not having enough speed"

"Was not fast and got hurt"

They also describe rows of instant-contact / automated springs as an level design improvement towards a group of static boxes used as platforms.

If this advice was being used under some specific context (making a Boost Sonic game or some similar racing platformer hybrid, or putting together a one-off level that's about moving fast) then that wouldn't be a problem....but isn't really useful at all for people making a non-Boost Sonic game, or a general platformer. 

The mentality portrayed here by the designers who put this together continues to reflect the attitude taken towards designing Sonic games over the past several years--that speed is apparently the only element that holds up Sonic gameplay. (This also feeds into the corresponding stereotype/meme also built on the same premise--Sonic games are solely about just mindlessly blazing through levels at fast speeds--even in Sonic games where that's obviously not true, like the original Genesis games and Mania.)

On another note, it's pretty telling IMO that the only environmental hazards they could come up as level design examples outside of the stock enemies were just rows of spikes. 

[Zippo]

On 8/29/2017 at 0:38 PM, Ratcicle King said:

You do know that the Sonic Team working on the games today aren't the same guys who did the Genesis games, right.

It's even funnier when you realize Sonic Team only actually worked on the first of the Genesis games, while the much, much superior sequels were made by STI in America.

[Salamander]

Sonic Forces in a nutshell:

9 hours ago, The Deleter said:

 

[A_W]

5 hours ago, Zippo said:

It's even funnier when you realize Sonic Team only actually worked on the first of the Genesis games, while the much, much superior sequels were made by STI in America.

Wasn't it only Sonic 2 that was developed by STI? I thought 3&K went back to Sonic Team.

[Blue Blood]

14 hours ago, Mors said:

This is actually what they should have done. This isn't the easiest platforming section ever but as long as there's a bottom pathway too this isn't really that bad.

I mean, I know there's a bottomless pit, this is a Sonic Team game. But the fact they are showing this screenshot as a "bad example" with the reasoning of "too hard" makes very little sense because you can make this level design work better than what's currently there.

I really don't think they gave any thought to this whole thing at all. I don't even know why they even bothered.

You know what might have been even better? Something entirely different.

The weird thing about this presentation is that they're taking their levels design swapping around a few objects, saying one version is bad and the other version is good. The reality however is that none of their situations are particularly good. The levels that they have made with flat paths leading into loops, excessive scripted sections that control themselves and any platforming involving sow movement and bottomless pits can't be made good with the addition of springs and random enemies.

It's a bloody wonder that Mania was allowed out the door. Sonic Team must hate the level design in that...

[Dannymax440]

I wonder if there'll be a hard mode which might include some of those early level designs.

[Milo]

12 hours ago, Zippo said:

It's even funnier when you realize Sonic Team only actually worked on the first of the Genesis games, while the much, much superior sequels were made by STI in America.

6 hours ago, A_W said:

Wasn't it only Sonic 2 that was developed by STI? I thought 3&K went back to Sonic Team.

The Genesis sequels were developed by Sonic Team within STI, with STI assisting in development only for Sonic 2 (they assisted in creating the zone artwork and level layouts). The conflicting work culture and language barriers that happened in Sonic 2's development between American STI staff and the Japanese Sonic Team staff, resulted in Naka stipulating that he would only develop Sonic 3&K as long as he worked solely with Sonic Team staff. (STI staff were given their own Sonic project to work with with Sonic Spinball shortly afterwards.)

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

I'm just gonna post this here:

 

 

If you had to boil it down to its constituent parts, what do you think makes a good Sonic level?
It’s a lot of things that work in concert. On a superficial level, you have the setting, the stage itself, what it looks like. In the classic Sonic game, even though you have natural-looking levels, everything has a geometric, early ‘90s CGI-type feel to it. I think that was Sonic Team playing to the strengths of the original hardware, but it makes a distinct look. The location itself informs the stage gimmicks that the player interacts with. This is really important for Sonic, because his core moveset is pretty basic. It’s all about the natural interaction with the slopes. The additional elements that augment that gameplay is what makes a stage novel. For example, in Studiopolis - a Hollywood-style, at-the-movies zone - instead of just having a generic spring, you have a clapper board. And same with the popcorn machine. In terms of the movement, it’s pretty simple, but all the elements play together to give it a sense of excitement.

Source:http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/a-chat-with-fan-turned-creator-of-sonic-mania-w501581