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Sonic Mania: Sequel Speculation (Spoilers)

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If a sonic mania 2 was greenlit in the future, what would you want added to the formula? What would you want it to shake up? What would you want brought back that you think wasn't in this installment? What kind of new level tropes would you want added?

I'd like an option for the drop dash or instasheild to be brought onboard. I'd also like the option to choose knuckles and tails or sonic and knuckles together in levels.  

I'd like to see the taxman's team take on a cruise ship zone. That would be pretty fun.

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I think we need to wait for the game to come out first before we start this discussion.

Whilst everybody is hyping it like crazy, there is a ton of stuff that we don't yet know and if it were any other game we'd be growing concerned or asking for answers now.

e.g.

Total number of levels.

Story.

How differently the stages are if you play as a specific character.

Boss fights.

Stuff like that.

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I'll agree that it's a bit too early to start talk about what to do with a sequel, but honestly only five things come to mind at worst, and only three of them really boil down to the actual game.

To the dev team:

a. Mostly (if not entirely) new content. If there's going to be returning levels, keep them to a short minimum and have them as surprises hidden in the game. The series has been playing the nostalgia card way too much in recent years.

b. Go for a more modern presentation, a la Donkey Kong Country Returns or Rayman Origins. Leave Mania's retraux look to be a unique element to that game, and go either with modern-era sprites or the 2.5D route. In particular, I'd love to see a game look like the CD animated scenes, the recent Sonic 2 concept art, the OVA, or Tyson Heese's Mega Drive / Mania pre-order trailer--just something that's all about presenting the original artstyle with today's graphics/visuals.

c. This is a much more personal request, so it's really not important, but I'd like see the next game go with a different/new title, rather than be billed as a direct sequel to Mania.

To Sega:

d. Retail release. I'd pretty much pay nearly any amount for a physical copy of a new Genesis Sonic game.

e. Let the developers breathe and work on other projects, take notes from Nintendo's development schedule (three-five years between each game). In the meantime, let Mania's quality speak for itself not just in initial sales, but in shelf life in the following years.

Other than that....have at it. Cut loose and surprise me. The developers have my sword shield axe keyboard enthusiastic trust and support.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa!  We're getting ahead of ourselves here.  I doubt it will happen.  They never made a Sonic Generations 2.  What makes ya think they'll make a Sonic Mania 2?

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42 minutes ago, Foxboy Mick said:

  What makes ya think they'll make a Sonic Mania 2?

Because the reception Mania has received since it's reveal has been overwhelmingly positive. 

If Mania sells well and receives great reviews then hopefully SEGA will realise there is a future for more 2d titles. Then the sky's the limit.

 

As for a Mania 2, I'd prefer all new levels. As long as the physics and level design stays true to the Mega-Drive games then I'd say let Team Mania get really creative.

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Playable Amy:

She's the last "good guy" character from the classic games not present, and I think Amy needs more good, non-damsel representation. As for how she'd play, I imagine that she's basically Sonic 3 Sonic gameplay, just with the hammer replacing the insta-shield. She'd be able to use the elemental shields in some way too. That brings me to my next point...

Elemental shield abilities for all characters:

I always thought it was sucky how only Sonic gets to use shield abilities. Sure, maybe the abilities would distract from a characters flight abilities, but they don't have to. Another button could be used to activate shield abilities so that the jump button can be used for standard character abilities.

---

Oh btw, the rate at which we get a "Mania 2" would be dictated less by Sega and more by Christian Whitehead's team. If they want to work on another classic-styled game then Sega would probably greenlight it, but if they don't I doubt Sega would want to risk using another developer. I'm sure if Mania is successful Sega will probably ask Christian Whitehead and friends if to make another game, but it's not like they're under an extended contract as far as I'm aware.

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Pipe dream would be for Sonic 4 to be remade in Mania style, not only would we get a Sonic 4 that wouldn't get bashed, means every age more chance of a sequel game being called 5. While it is a petty thing thing to gripe about, there isn't much I would want added in a sequel. If they made 3 Mania's all with the same gameplay and mix of old and new and old levels, would be more than satisfied. 

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8 hours ago, N8te said:

Playable Amy:

She's the last "good guy" character from the classic games not present, and I think Amy needs more good, non-damsel representation. As for how she'd play, I imagine that she's basically Sonic 3 Sonic gameplay, just with the hammer replacing the insta-shield. She'd be able to use the elemental shields in some way too. That brings me to my next point...

Elemental shield abilities for all characters:

I always thought it was sucky how only Sonic gets to use shield abilities. Sure, maybe the abilities would distract from a characters flight abilities, but they don't have to. Another button could be used to activate shield abilities so that the jump button can be used for standard character abilities.

---

Oh btw, the rate at which we get a "Mania 2" would be dictated less by Sega and more by Christian Whitehead's team. If they want to work on another classic-styled game then Sega would probably greenlight it, but if they don't I doubt Sega would want to risk using another developer. I'm sure if Mania is successful Sega will probably ask Christian Whitehead and friends if to make another game, but it's not like they're under an extended contract as far as I'm aware.

i support this though i don't neccessarily believe this game needs a sequel. 

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... is it still to early?

Copied and pasted from a status update:

You know what would've made a cool level in sonic mania? A haunted airship. An airship that slowly flies through eerie looking clouds with busted up but still dangerous looking badniks. Blinking lights and alarms would be in it too. The music would be a slow and eerie remix of flying battery zone. After you fight the boss at the end, the ship glitches and reveals that the ship was crashed on the ground the whole time during a sandstorm.

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On 15/07/2017 at 5:14 AM, Yeow said:

b. Go for a more modern presentation, a la Donkey Kong Country Returns or Rayman Origins. Leave Mania's retraux look to be a unique element to that game, and go either with modern-era sprites or the 2.5D route. In particular, I'd love to see a game look like the CD animated scenes, the recent Sonic 2 concept art, the OVA, or Tyson Heese's Mega Drive / Mania pre-order trailer--just something that's all about presenting the original artstyle with today's graphics/visuals.

Do this, and we'll end up with a shorter game that we'll have to wait much longer for. Taxman made it clear very early on that they went for a MegaDrive/Saturn look because they were able to create a strong artstyle that wouldn't totally deplete their resources. Low resolution pixel art with a limited colour palette is going to be infinitely easier to produce than and HD or 3D.

I also believe that the Retro Engine isn't capable of handling either in much capacity (though this goes back to the days of S1/2/CD mobile and it's been upgraded since then). I'm pretty certain that they would need to develop an entirely new engine to handle what you're asking for. That, plus creating the game assets, would be a gargantuan task. Let's get another game or two out of the door first with wholly original 2D pixel art content and then move on to something else.

Personal opinion here, but 2.5D Classic Sonic is a big no. Part of the more authentic Classic Sonic experience is that it's 2D, unlike S4, Gens or Forces. An HD 2D artstyle would surely look amazing, but 2.5D would rub me up the wrong way. Full 3D though? Yes please. As of SEGA would ever allow that though.

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1 hour ago, A HyperKING heavy engine said:

It seems like everytime sega tries to do 2.5d classic sonic they don't get the physics right. Would it have something to do with the gameplay engine they use? I even wonder if it is possible to correct the physics for a 2.5d game.

It's perfectly possible. A 2.5D game is just a 3D game that limits your movements to a 2D plane. The physics and character movements are still "in 3D" but you can only move left/right and up/down, not forwards/backwards. Generations is a great example, because you can get Classic Sonic to play in 3D in his own acts using a few exploits:

The reason SEGA has never gotten the physics right is because they've never really tried. Classic Sonic (and other 2D sections) in Generations, Lost World, Colours, Unleashed and Forces aren't a separate engine from everything else. They're the exact same as Modern/3D Sonic, with a few modifiers like moveset and speed. You know how Sonic and Shadow play differently in '06? It's the same case for Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic in the current games. The engine that Sonic Team use is really only built (/optimised and designed for) for their incredibly automated and scripted Modern boost style. It wouldn't even work very well for Rush. That's why Classic Sonic is so "janky" and stiff compared to the original games.

Dimps have used the same engine for all of their Sonic games since Rush, which includes S4E1, S4E2, Generations 3DS and even Lost World 3DS. Those games vary wildly. None manage the Classic style too well, but it gets the point across about how much you can change within a single engine.

Creating a 3D engine is much more complicated that a 2D one, particularly where the physics are as intricate as Sonic's. If anyone was going to do it right, I'd have faith in the Mania Team. At the very least, Christian is a "friend to pixels and polys alike".

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1 hour ago, A HyperKING heavy engine said:

I even wonder if it is possible to correct the physics for a 2.5d game.

It absolutely is. How the classic physics work isn't some arcane mystery, it's not predicated on some particular quirk of 2D, it's honestly relatively simple logic and calculations. If you can get Sonic to run around a loop you should be able to get him to feel reasonably accurate to the Genesis games.

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Of course I'd be happy to see a sequel to Mania greenlit, I can't think of anyone besides the Sonic Adventure 3 facebook page that wouldn't, but since Mania is just as fun to me as any of the other classics I feel I can wait awhile before I'd really start itching for a continuation.

In the meantime I think Sega should capitalize off Mania's success and actually try to revive some of their dormant franchises. They said they were interested a few months ago, certainly Mania's success should be enough to convince them that there's potential with it.

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6 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Do this, and we'll end up with a shorter game that we'll have to wait much longer for. Taxman made it clear very early on that they went for a MegaDrive/Saturn look because they were able to create a strong artstyle that wouldn't totally deplete their resources. Low resolution pixel art with a limited colour palette is going to be infinitely easier to produce than and HD or 3D.

I also believe that the Retro Engine isn't capable of handling either in much capacity (though this goes back to the days of S1/2/CD mobile and it's been upgraded since then). I'm pretty certain that they would need to develop an entirely new engine to handle what you're asking for. That, plus creating the game assets, would be a gargantuan task. Let's get another game or two out of the door first with wholly original 2D pixel art content and then move on to something else.

I think this is only a problem if people or Sega want the next 2D Sonic game to be produced as quickly or as cheaply as possible, which I've already said in my original post is something I don't want to happen. I want Taxman and co. to take their time to make the next 2D Sonic game and I want Sega to give them the necessary development period and budget to do so, I already cited three to five years as what I would consider an ideal development cycle. If I have to wait that long for the team to produce the necessary assets and produce the necessary engine (whether it be an expanded Retro Engine, or a new replacement engine) to put together that modern-looking Genesis Sonic game, then I'm absolutely fine with that. I'm not married to Sonic, I have other games I can play during that time. 

Mania as it is was also made in roughly a year and a half, and a big reason it was allowed to be made in that short span of time was because the bulk of the game was repurposed material from the original games, which allowed the team to save resources. It kinda goes without saying that if you want another 2D Sonic game from Taxman and co. with mostly (if not entirely) original content, it would need a longer development cycle than what Mania had by default. It wouldn't hurt to also evolve the presentation while they're at it.

Maybe I'm making a mistake assuming Sega would actually bestow Taxman and co. more resources to work with and a more relaxed development cycle in light of Mania's success, since this is Sega we're talking about (we still don't have a physical release for the game...). But the fact they've apologized for prioritizing shipping dates over quality and held to that apology by allowing Mania and Boom: Fire and Ice to be delayed past their initial release periods does tell me they would likely be more inclined to give the team the necessary development time required; and Mania's widespread acclaim practically makes it a no-brainer that Taxman and his team should be given more development tools and a larger budget to work with. That and if Sega has allowed Sonic Team four years to create Forces (which to me looks like it will be the hottest of mess), then then there's absolutely no good reason Taxman and co.'s next Sonic game can't also enjoy a similar period of development.

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latest?cb=20160224230403

Sonic Mania is awesome.

Being able to play as Classic Sonic, Classic Tails, and Classic Knuckles through a selection of new Zones and remixed Zones, while collecting Rings, Medallions, and Chaos Emeralds, and fighting Badniks, Super Badniks, HBH, and Eggman is amazing.

Though time will tell if Sonic Mania 2 will be a thing just yet, I wanted to discuss all the things we’d love to see change or remain the same in the possible sequel.

 

NOTES: 

  • Most of us have agreed that in a Sonic Mania sequel, Classic Amy should be added as a playable character. While some could debate that she doesn’t Damsel out of Distress until Sonic Adventure, she was playable in some of the Genesis and Saturn Era spinoff games. Plus, Sonic Adventure 2 sweeps her to the sidelines anyway.
  • We’ve also agreed that in the Zone Ratio should be reversed, having mostly New Zones and maybe 4 or less remixed ones.
  • 5 Words: Zone Transitions for Every Zone

 

Discussion Questions

1. Should the sequel’s graphical presentation stay in the Saturn Era style like the first game? Or would you prefer something different? (For Example: Sonic Advance style sprites, but with Classic designs)

2. Should the Zone and Act structure stay the same? (2 Acts per Zone, Boss at the end of each Act)

3. Should they change the Bonus Stages and Special Stages?

4. Are there features from other Sonic Games that you’d like to see in the sequel? (Examples: World Map, Collection Room, Score Attack, Bestiary, etc)

5. Should the partner system be more fleshed out?

6. Should Sonic have all his abilities available up to this point (Super Peelout, Insta-Shield, and Drop Dash) or stay nerfed?

 

Story Discussion Questions

S1. Do you want Mania and its sequels to be considered the Phantom Ruby Saga, or should the sequel focus on something else?

S2. Should the HBH return? If you say “Yes”, should new members be added/created?

S3. Are there any other Classic characters you want as playable characters besides Amy? Or maybe just as a cameo?

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49 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

NOTES: 

  • Most of us have agreed that in a Sonic Mania sequel, Classic Amy should be added as a playable character. While some could debate that she doesn’t Damsel out of Distress until Sonic Adventure, she was playable in some of the Genesis and Saturn Era spinoff games. Plus, Sonic Adventure 2 sweeps her to the sidelines anyway.
  • We’ve also agreed that in the Zone Ratio should be reversed, having mostly New Zones and maybe 4 or less remixed ones.
  • 5 Words: Zone Transitions for Every Zone

To be fair, SA2 did that out of necessity or we'd have ended up with even more playable characters. Either way, I'm not bothered about Amy. If they can create a distinct and fun moveset for her, then why not. On the other hand, if they concentrate their efforts on fleshing out the other three instead, I'd be good with that too.

As for zone ratio, I'd rather all bar perhaps one be brand new. It would be cool to see something old come back again, but I feel like they've done enough callbacks to last a long while now.

I'll just answer your other questions in the following box to make it easier:

Quote

Discussion Questions

1. Should the sequel’s graphical presentation stay in the Saturn Era style like the first game? Or would you prefer something different? (For Example: Sonic Advance style sprites, but with Classic designs)

Yes to the Saturn era style. Just continue to improve upon it. Sometimes there's a little too much going on in the background, so perhaps they could address that in a way that doesn't sacrifice too much detail. I definitely don't want Sonic Advance style sprites. They were cool once upon a time, but look incredibly dated to me now. To add a note about the music: just get Tee back to keep doing what he's doing. Please.

2. Should the Zone and Act structure stay the same? (2 Acts per Zone, Boss at the end of each Act)

I'd be happiest with that over what other Classic games have done, but I'm open to a new structure if it makes sense for what they have in mind for the game.

3. Should they change the Bonus Stages and Special Stages?

Absolutely. Saturn-style polygons aside, they should definitely be switching those up. A couple of bonus stages inspired by S3&K's capsule and roulette would be ideal.

4. Are there features from other Sonic Games that you’d like to see in the sequel? (Examples: World Map, Collection Room, Score Attack, Bestiary, etc)

I'm not concerned with a map. I'd rather worldbuilding be informed by the zones themselves and transitions alone.

5. Should the partner system be more fleshed out?

Sure. I don't know how they'd go about it, given the speed that Player 1 is often moving at, but maybe the Link Rings (do they have an official name?) from Chaotix are a place to start.

6. Should Sonic have all his abilities available up to this point (Super Peelout, Insta-Shield, and Drop Dash) or stay nerfed?

The Super Peel-Out is pretty pointless outside of looking cool, so no to that. The other two are fine. It would depend what new ability Sonic might be given and whether the amount of inputs become over-complicated.

Story Discussion Questions

S1. Do you want Mania and its sequels to be considered the Phantom Ruby Saga, or should the sequel focus on something else?

As long as it's well executed, I don't mind either way. However, I do want the Heavies back...

S2. Should the HBH return? If you say “Yes”, should new members be added/created?

I've already said it, but a hundred times YES (to them coming back). New ones on top of the original five would seem like overkill and replacing them could make them feel too disposable. Instead I'd like to see them receive upgrades (visually appealing ones that don't clutter their designs, of course) from Eggman that enhances their abilities.

S3. Are there any other Classic characters you want as playable characters besides Amy? Or maybe just as a cameo?

Cameo? That's cool. Anyone relevant is fine to cameo as long as they make sense in context. I doubt we'd see any new playable characters outside of Amy, though. She seems to be the most requested and I think that would be more than enough work for them, honestly.

 

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