Sonic Mania: Sequel Speculation (Spoilers)

[Jango]

The way I see it, to avoid this situation, they gotta expand on literally everything if they want to stick with pixel art, like, have almost to none rehashed zones and baddies, add more playable characters, new ways to play similar to what Encore mode broght to the table, more cutscenes, more levels... A sequel is a sequel, they must go bigger on everything. 

And above all, Sonic Mania 2 must feel like a totally NEW game, not a celebration of the past like the first one. It has to be original front and back. Was Mania a new game? Technically, yes, but it still had some stuff holding it back to be called that new, rehashed zones being the main one. No more.

[BlueFlare]

I don't think adding new characters would make it much more interesting if they go with one ability per character (except Sonic now with drop dash and shields - well Tails can swim and Knux knows climbing),  they need to expand movesets for the existing cast. Give Tails and Knux new abilities. Heck, Tails knows gadgets and shit, he can hack stuff so use that stuff in levels someway. Knux should know punching and digging ground and stuff. Let's not forget Mighty and Ray, they should be used later because why the heck not!? 

[Diogenes]

I don't think more moves is the right way to go. I mean, if they come up with something that genuinely adds to a character's gameplay, or some gimmick that meshes well with the core gameplay, then sure, but I think it's real easy to fall into the trap of "more=better" with new moves. It's easy to say "oh Tails is a techie mechanic guy, give him some kind of gadget!" but like, what would it actually do? How would it mesh with the core gameplay and with the unique abilities he already has? Taking a game that's designed around fast and fluid platforming and dropping a "stand still and press x to hack this door" mechanic into it would only make the game play worse, even if it was character-appropriate and even if it let them list another feature on the back of the box.

I'd rather see them try to refine their existing abilities, to try to make their flight and gliding/climbing more fun to use, and if they see an opportunity for a new move to enhance or compliment those abilities, then take it. That's maybe not as immediate a crowd pleaser as a bunch of new gimmicks, but it's what makes for a better game.

[Sean]

Sonic Advance gave everyone a bunch of new moves. They were all pretty worthless, whereas I think every new character ability in Mania (Sonic's drop dash, Mighty and Ray's movesets) are downright ingenious. The only ability in Advance 1 I think was halfway decent was Sonic's air dash... which actually wasn't good at all in Advance 1 until they buffed it and improved its forward momentum come Advance 2. And even then I think Sonic's shield abilities fill that gap in classic gameplay.

[Sonic Fan J]

To me the next logical step would actually be by expanding shield abilities to the other characters as a way to address that. For example if Tail's has the Thunder Barrier let each press of the jump button make him ascend higher per press, with Knuckles let the Flame Barrier drastically increase the acceleration of his glide, for Mighty let him stay in a ball after bouncing on spikes so the player can choose to pay a shield to go a route that would normally be too far for Mighty's Singular bounce to get him to safely with the shield type affecting how his first bounce performs, and with Ray let the shields affect his ascending (lightning), horizontal (fire), and descending (aqua) speeds with the Aqua Barrier having the additional bonus of acting like both itself and the Lightning Barrier while underwater in regards to movement. Maybe not the best solutions but they do encourage exploration with the other characters for more than just routes so one can experiment with the different shield effect.

[Jango]

Since we're talking about adding (or not) new moves and abilities: I might get hate for this, but I would love to see them approach this subject similar to the Megaman X series, where you find stuff to buff you up hidden in the levels. Perhaps not an upgrade that lasts the whole game, maybe just the zone you found it? Kinda like the shields. I think one of those Game Gear games had something like that, the rocket shoes, and spring shoes. I though that was neat. 

[Pawn]

In terms of graphics, I'd like to see them retain the pixel art, but make use of more 3D geometry and modern effects. A fantastic example of this is the way Acquire enhanced a particular style of old school RPG with Octopath:

Of course, the integration of more modern graphical elements would be different with Sonic, but this a good example of reinvigorating classic sprite art.

[Detective Kaito]

Giving Shield Abilities to all characters sounds really cool. While we're at it add a Wind Shield and a Shield that takes two hits instead of one.

I know rom hacks and fangames already have these, but it would be nice if we saw Mania's take on them.

[Blue Blood]

Shields are already very powerful as they are; they all grant immunity to projectiles, save you from ring loss once and have added immunity to elemental hazards, plus magnetism for the lightning shield. I seriously don't get why there's such an outcry to extend the shield abilities to characters beyond Sonic. They afford him aerial abilities that he otherwise lacks. He's more versatile than Tails and Knuckles, but it comes at the cost of needing specific shields. Other characters don't need them, and the simple formula of the Classic style doesn't need more arbitrary moves. As pointed out above, adding more characters and moves just for the sake of it is pointless at best and detrimental at worst. I don't think I've seen any suggestions for additional shield abilities on other characters that aren't going to wreck balance.

My personal proposal would be to nerf the elemental shields slightly. Right now they all repel projectiles, which makes a lot of enemy attacks absolutely useless against you. I think that this should be limited to just basic/blue shield, because as it stands that shield has very little advantage over any others unless you want to retain the Drop Dash or you have a lightning/fire shield in a water level. If it was the only one to repel projectiles, it would have it's own niche to fill and wouldn't be downgrade when you pick one up when you've already got another shield up.

Just leave the shields the way they are. They really don't need a buff or any new abilities, and the suggestion to expand then only seems to come from the mindset that "more = better".

[Multikaris]

Maybe the game has a different antagonist from Eggman, as he was sucked in by a Phantom Ruby portal? 

[expansivelovestories]

38 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Maybe the game has a different antagonist from Eggman, as he was sucked in by a Phantom Ruby portal? 

!!  This does seem to be more fruitful a result from the ruby portal than some type of DLC episode within Forces.  And it could turn out to be both!

There is the fan character Omelette who is, if i am remembering correctly, enjoyed by some of the Mania team members; especially that the design emerged by chance from their own graphics!

In the story of the classic timeline, there has never been much of any damage to Eggman's factories and laboratories. 

Any relative of his, whether literally that character, or a similar one, could have been somewhere within these complexes learning and developing their own technology etc!  Sometime after his disappearance into the portal, they could take Eggman's role.  Maybe this power vacuum would also cause more activity from Fang, Bark and Bean simultaneously, or, even later on within the new agme's story!

[MainJP]

3 hours ago, Miragnarok said:

Maybe the game has a different antagonist from Eggman, as he was sucked in by a Phantom Ruby portal? 

How about bringing back the Great Battle Kukku?

They are bringing back a lot of old characters so why not? Have him try to take revenge on Tails and obviously have Sonic get involved.

Hell, have him team up with Witchcart who’s another Tails enemy:

Both utilize robots and machinery like Eggman and have the added quality of having henchmen, Great Kukku being a physical fighter and Witchcart utilizing magic. I’m sure some interesting stuff could be done with that.

With Eggman possibly gone for the time being there’d be no competition. There’s also the option of creating a new villain.

[Meta77]

Of all bosses in sonic lore I rank the witch below time eater and he sits at the bottom.

[Multikaris]

37 minutes ago, MainJP said:

How about bringing back the Great Battle Kukku?

They are bringing back a lot of old characters so why not? Have him try to take revenge on Tails and obviously have Sonic get involved.

Hell, have him team up with Witchcart who’s another Tails enemy:

Both utilize robots and machinery like Eggman and have the added quality of having henchmen, Great Kukku being a physical fighter and Witchcart utilizing magic. I’m sure some interesting stuff could be done with that.

With Eggman possibly gone for the time being there’d be no competition. There’s also the option of creating a new villain.

Maybe Naugus or Snively could also be used? Or Breezie? But overall, I think a new villain is the most likely to be done for the next game. Or, Heavy King, who as it turns out, HASN’T reformed!

[MainJP]

13 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Maybe Naugus or Snively could also be used? Or Breezie? But overall, I think a new villain is the most likely to be done for the next game. Or, Heavy King, who as it turns out, HASN’T reformed!

Archie Comic characters? I don’t see that happening. Heavy King’s still around according to Plus so yeah, he could try his evil stuff again.  

[molul]

I'd love an HD 2D Sonic game. I don't think it should be something to worry about but to embrace. Rayman origins and legends look awesome and okay awesome. Why not doing the same with Sonic? It could be a string selling point for a next 2D game.

[superman43]

23 hours ago, Jango said:

The way I see it, to avoid this situation, they gotta expand on literally everything if they want to stick with pixel art, like, have almost to none rehashed zones and baddies, add more playable characters, new ways to play similar to what Encore mode broght to the table, more cutscenes, more levels... A sequel is a sequel, they must go bigger on everything. 

And above all, Sonic Mania 2 must feel like a totally NEW game, not a celebration of the past like the first one. It has to be original front and back. Was Mania a new game? Technically, yes, but it still had some stuff holding it back to be called that new, rehashed zones being the main one. No more.

Oh really ? Rehashed zones... well... ok, I guess. But revisiting some of the location (not many though) could still work. Besides that, introducing a new location with all new zones may end up in the fiasco as did Sonic 4. Just not-really-Green-Hill, not-really-Casino-Night, not-really-Labyrinth, not-really-Metropolis, not-really-Aquatic Ruin does not work either. 

I highly prefer revisiting zones where appropriate instead of making a renamed rehash set in a "different location". No Green Hill or Chemical Plant though.

10 hours ago, MainJP said:

How about bringing back the Great Battle Kukku?

They are bringing back a lot of old characters so why not? Have him try to take revenge on Tails and obviously have Sonic get involved.

Hell, have him team up with Witchcart who’s another Tails enemy:

Both utilize robots and machinery like Eggman and have the added quality of having henchmen, Great Kukku being a physical fighter and Witchcart utilizing magic. I’m sure some interesting stuff could be done with that.

With Eggman possibly gone for the time being there’d be no competition. There’s also the option of creating a new villain.

Honestly these villains are... just... meh. It seems more appropriate for other Genesis games, mainly the Witchcart. Similar boss was in Mr.Nutz for Genesis. Kukku as well... more appropriate for other games than Sonic.

[Jango]

I mean, nothing wrong with the rehashed zones in Mania, the changes they made and the new gimmicks they added made each of them fresh and worth replaying after all these years. Save for a few... Looking at you Hydrocity Act 2 hehehe

Still, the original zones just blown everything out of the water. They're amazing, creative, unique and fresh on their own. 

I'm not condening a sequel that still brings back old zones, but if they do, I wanna see they really SHAKE them, the same way the team mixed gimmicks from other zones/games into another, I wanna see they do that with visuals, aesthetics. Like, imagine Launch Base Zone, but all mossy and rusty, deactivated, kinda like a ghost town? Broken alarms and elevators, a lot of paths underwater, badniks going crazy. Or totally covered in snow since it's near Ice Cap Zone. 

What about, say, Marble Zone frozen? Spring Yard Zone during day? Hill Top + Wing Fortress crashed? Yeah, what IF, the Wing Fortress crash landed on Hill Top? That would be neat.

Stuff like that. Crazy.

 

[MainJP]

1 hour ago, superman43 said:

Honestly these villains are... just... meh. It seems more appropriate for other Genesis games, mainly the Witchcart. Similar boss was in Mr.Nutz for Genesis. Kukku as well... more appropriate for other games than Sonic.

I’m more thinking about what the Mania team could do with these villains. The reason I mention what they were capable of in Tails’s games was to more or less show what they have to work with. I think there’s some potential there to bring some interesting elements to boss battles. 

This reminds me of when Mighty and Ray were revealed, some members here weren’t thrilled due to them being portrayed as Sonic clones in the past but look at what the Mania team did with them. They could do something with Witchcarts magic and use Kukku’s battle troops. Just suggestions since like I said they could just bring in a new enemy or Heavy King could try something again.

[superman43]

1 hour ago, MainJP said:

I’m more thinking about what the Mania team could do with these villains. The reason I mention what they were capable of in Tails’s games was to more or less show what they have to work with. I think there’s some potential there to bring some interesting elements to boss battles. 

This reminds me of when Mighty and Ray were revealed, some members here weren’t thrilled due to them being portrayed as Sonic clones in the past but look at what the Mania team did with them. They could do something with Witchcarts magic and use Kukku’s battle troops. Just suggestions since like I said they could just bring in a new enemy or Heavy King could try something again.

Yeah, suggestions are fine. But usually, the villains in Sonic are closely associated with Eggman, in one way or another. Witchcart and Kukku aren´t.

[Pawn]

Kukku at least looks like he has potential to fit in the world as a Sonic villain, but Witchcart... I find it odd that the idea is ever entertained. She's just a generic witch in a cart, as her name suggests...

[Sean]

I just want Witchcart to come back because I think she's hilarious

[Sonictrainer]

4 hours ago, superman43 said:

Oh really ? Rehashed zones... well... ok, I guess. But revisiting some of the location (not many though) could still work. Besides that, introducing a new location with all new zones may end up in the fiasco as did Sonic 4. Just not-really-Green-Hill, not-really-Casino-Night, not-really-Labyrinth, not-really-Metropolis, not-really-Aquatic Ruin does not work either. 

I highly prefer revisiting zones where appropriate instead of making a renamed rehash set in a "different location". No Green Hill or Chemical Plant though.

I disagree.

As long as the levels have their own identity, they should be fine and avoid the issues Sonic 4 had.

Look at Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors. Both games were new locations with new levels.

Unleashed has 8 City levels (not counting Cool Edge) and Colors has 8 Space Levels. However, each one is different from each other.

I don't see anyone complaining about Windmill Isle being a rehash of Water Palace Zone from Sonic Rush or Blue Coast Zone from Sonic Rivals 2 despite the fact all 3 have cities with white buildings.

[MainJP]

1 hour ago, Pawn said:

Kukku at least looks like he has potential to fit in the world as a Sonic villain, but Witchcart... I find it odd that the idea is ever entertained. She's just a generic witch in a cart, as her name suggests...

I just find the idea of her funny. I also like the idea of her magic being expanded upon. Have her magic buff bosses in a way, she has the ability to produce crystals so maybe she could add additional weaponry to robots or something.

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, MainJP said:

I just find the idea of her funny. I also like the idea of her magic being expanded upon. Have her magic buff bosses in a way, she has the ability to produce crystals so maybe she could add additional weaponry to robots or something.

Sure! Especially with her crystal magic. Perhaps a stage where crystals rain on you? Naugus could do the same, but he would also be a bit more of a physical fighter.