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Sonic Mania: Sequel Speculation (Spoilers)


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7 hours ago, Jango said:

I mean, nothing wrong with the rehashed zones in Mania, the changes they made and the new gimmicks they added made each of them fresh and worth replaying after all these years. Save for a few... Looking at you Hydrocity Act 2 hehehe

Still, the original zones just blown everything out of the water. They're amazing, creative, unique and fresh on their own. 

I'm not condening a sequel that still brings back old zones, but if they do, I wanna see they really SHAKE them, the same way the team mixed gimmicks from other zones/games into another, I wanna see they do that with visuals, aesthetics. Like, imagine Launch Base Zone, but all mossy and rusty, deactivated, kinda like a ghost town? Broken alarms and elevators, a lot of paths underwater, badniks going crazy. Or totally covered in snow since it's near Ice Cap Zone. 

What about, say, Marble Zone frozen? Spring Yard Zone during day? Hill Top + Wing Fortress crashed? Yeah, what IF, the Wing Fortress crash landed on Hill Top? That would be neat.

Stuff like that. Crazy.

 

You know what I hoped for ? Stardust Speedway Act 2 inside the cathedral... the one from the middle of original level or the one at the end of the Act 1. That´s what I thought when the picture of Proto Press Garden was released. But yeah, crazy stuff like those you mentioned would be really neat.

 

3 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

I disagree.

As long as the levels have their own identity, they should be fine and avoid the issues Sonic 4 had.

Look at Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors. Both games were new locations with new levels.

Unleashed has 8 City levels (not counting Cool Edge) and Colors has 8 Space Levels. However, each one is different from each other.

I don't see anyone complaining about Windmill Isle being a rehash of Water Palace Zone from Sonic Rush or Blue Coast Zone from Sonic Rivals 2 despite the fact all 3 have cities with white buildings.

The problem with Unleashed and Colors is that despite having unique-ish levels, they are all pretty mellow. Like, I genuinely think that when choosing a level from Unleashed to appear in Generations they could have been in a bit of a trouble. The levels are not exactly memorable. 

Colors didn´t have the same problem, because well... Planet Wisp was a unique idea. And Tropical Resort. But others still feel a bit less unique ideas, therefore making those levels less memorable.

Don´t get me wrong, but I think all of the zones in Genesis era (1, 2, 3, and Knuckles) + 1/2 from Adventure and few from Heroes are memorable. After that it´s not really much of a thing, just an occasional light of maybe 1 or 2 memorable levels per game.

 

And well... Witchcart...

latest?cb=20110211052657Výsledok vyhľadávania obrázkov pre dopyt mr nutz witch boss megadrive

 

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Sonictrainer
2 hours ago, superman43 said:

The problem with Unleashed and Colors is that despite having unique-ish levels, they are all pretty mellow. Like, I genuinely think that when choosing a level from Unleashed to appear in Generations they could have been in a bit of a trouble. The levels are not exactly memorable. 

Colors didn´t have the same problem, because well... Planet Wisp was a unique idea. And Tropical Resort. But others still feel a bit less unique ideas, therefore making those levels less memorable.

Don´t get me wrong, but I think all of the zones in Genesis era (1, 2, 3, and Knuckles) + 1/2 from Adventure and few from Heroes are memorable. After that it´s not really much of a thing, just an occasional light of maybe 1 or 2 memorable levels per game.

By that logic, if your memory is bad and you forget about levels that already exist and create not Green Hill Zone, it's Ok.

That's not true because people liked Emerald Hill Zone, Mushroom Hill Zone, and Seaside Hill, and not many people like Splash Hill Zone or Lost Valley.

Also, just because you can't remember Windmill Isle, Rooftop Run, Savannah Citadel, Cool Edge, Dragon Road, Skyscraper Scamper, Arid Sands, Jungle Joyride, and Eggmanland in Unleashed or Sweet Mountain, Starlight Carnival, Aquarium Park, Asteroid Coaster, Terminal Velocity, and Game Land in Colors doesn't mean they're not memorable to other people. Especially since some of them are firsts for the series as far as level ideas go.

3 hours ago, superman43 said:

And well... Witchcart...

latest?cb=20110211052657Výsledok vyhľadávania obrázkov pre dopyt mr nutz witch boss megadrive

If Ray can get a slight redesign, I don't see why Wendy Witchcart or any other characters can't also get the same treatment.

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39 minutes ago, Sonictrainer said:

By that logic, if your memory is bad and you forget about levels that already exist and create not Green Hill Zone, it's Ok.

That's not true because people liked Emerald Hill Zone, Mushroom Hill Zone, and Seaside Hill, and not many people like Splash Hill Zone or Lost Valley.

Also, just because you can't remember Windmill Isle, Rooftop Run, Savannah Citadel, Cool Edge, Dragon Road, Skyscraper Scamper, Arid Sands, Jungle Joyride, and Eggmanland in Unleashed or Sweet Mountain, Starlight Carnival, Aquarium Park, Asteroid Coaster, Terminal Velocity, and Game Land in Colors doesn't mean they're not memorable to other people. Especially since some of them are firsts for the series as far as level ideas go.

Well, I do accept that there are people who regard the levels as unique, some of them having played them as the first Sonic game and others not. And... ok, I respect that opinion. But many more people (including those that regard Unleashed/Colors unique) do see that the stages from previous "good" games are unique. That´s my point. Genesis-era games + Adventure 1/2 and Heroes were played by bigger masses and those masses found their enjoyment in those that it surpasses the masses playing Unleashed/Colors. 

Basically it´s like comparing a field of roses and a mine field. Most people love roses, but they would avoid going into the mine field. And those that are willing to go (or those that are going there unaware of it) may find out that there is an even richer field of roses behind the mine field. Majority won´t go, still.

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Sonictrainer
31 minutes ago, superman43 said:

Basically it´s like comparing a field of roses and a mine field. Most people love roses, but they would avoid going into the mine field. And those that are willing to go (or those that are going there unaware of it) may find out that there is an even richer field of roses behind the mine field. Majority won´t go, still.

So why do you keep bringing up a minefield (Sonic 4) when people discuss planting a new flowerbed of roses and other varieties of plants (Sonic Mania 2) to the other flowerbed (Sonic Mania)? Especially since the gardeners (development teams) were different for each garden (game) and one clearly knows how Classic Sonic works?

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If there are old zones, I think they need new sets of Badniks to lurk in them. The transplants from other zones in the first game were nice, but it would be better seeing a fresh lineup for variety. For example, if we go back to Mystic Cave, instead of Crawlton and Flasher, we get new Badniks based on bears, bagworms, salamanders, and bats. 

 

Much like the Silver Sonics, maybe more past sub-bosses could return as standard drones? Due to Grapsule’s complete no-show (other than the abandoned Egg Janken boss, which didn’t even return in Plus), I speculate that it will be a likely target for this. 

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8 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

So why do you keep bringing up a minefield (Sonic 4) when people discuss planting a new flowerbed of roses and other varieties of plants (Sonic Mania 2) to the other flowerbed (Sonic Mania)? Especially since the gardeners (development teams) were different for each garden (game) and one clearly knows how Classic Sonic works?

They brought up a minefield (Sonic 4), because they thought it will be at least okay flowerbed after the previous attempt was (Sonic Advance). Same that happened with those gardeners (Dimps) is happening with the others (Sonic Team) since Unleashed. 

The basic thing is this... They had ideas for the Genesis era. After Sonic and Knuckles, Naka, Ohshima and all knew that they did not have any ideas for a new Sonic, thus working on Ristar and NiGHTS. Then when 3D era came into being, they did the Adventure, Adventure 2 and Heroes. The only real Naka´s fault was Shadow. The withdraw from SEGA during 06 development was logical. Even that game didn´t have much creativity. And it just ehm... got further... the "enemies sections" from Heroes/06 were "werehog sections" in Unleashed. And in terms of level, there was nothing new to achieve, that´s why they turned it into 2D with 3D elements. 

But... the thing about the Boost era games being somehow worse for many people than the others is possible to see around the whole gaming industry. Despite limitations, many older games are much more...ehm... redeemable than the present ones. And that´s not nostalgia, they tend to be simply more fun.

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/offtopic

Is it finally confirmed that Sonic Team worked on Ristar? I heard some members did, but it wasn't clear in the credits and whatnot.

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6 hours ago, molul said:

/offtopic

Is it finally confirmed that Sonic Gran worked on Ristar? I heard some members did, but it wasn't clear in the credits and whatnot.

Autocorrecting, right ?

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Skull Leader
On July 5, 2018 at 1:50 AM, Badnik Zero said:

In other games where Amy is playable she has an awkward hammer attack which is either only useful at a dead stop, and so does not flow with level structure, or flips her into the air which is just not great when other characters can fly or glide. She’d need a move set that makes playing her interesting. So far she’s been a low level unlockable for most games because she’s just not interesting to play. I think a hilarious but cool Amy mode could have her chasing a computer ghost Sonic through levels trying to but never able to catch him. Like every level would start with her and Sonic, but he’d just zoom off and you have to find him. This way she’d be interacting with the level Sonic left behind already, with traps sprung and routes blocked off so she has to use her own abilities to move through it. It also creates the chance to watch Sonic be a badass from a second character POV, like watching the SA-X ruin stuff in Metroid Fusion. Imagine playing as Amy, being captured, and being rescued by Sonic in an in game cutscene where he just totally wrecks shit. That’s what I wanna see from an Amy mode really.

 

Haven't checked this thread in a while, and all I have to say is: what?

IMO Amy's gameplay from Advance is the most ingenious twist to the core gameplay that the 2-D Genesis styled games offer, and one that no other character has ever tried to emulate since they all follow the lazy approach of copying Sonic's signature moveset, add one or two abilities and call it a day, lol (Something I think deserves much, much more to be bashed for actually offering nothing of interest that hasn't been done already). In paper it sounds like something that shouldn't work, that with the lack of rolling and spindashing, yet the character has abilities that not only make up for it, but also offers advantages, from better jumping, better attacks and IMO, more precision... Even things like smashing springs with the hammer add a variation to an existing iconic gimmick. You complain about the ground hammer attack, yet conveniently never mention how Amy is at her best with the aerial ones, especially when she has one certain ability that makes most bosses her bitches.

Even the Genesis hacks shows what can be accomplished within games with better levels design than Advance such as the Genesis trilogy... Games that were never designed with Amy and her abilities in mind and yet here I am still having a blast with those and enjoying that style more than the other  due to how well Amy's gameplay integrates into them. It even features improvements to the original gameplay such as using the aerial attack more than once, or even link it to other abilities like the Hammer Whirl, which btw in the S3&A hack, it's a very fun move to use since you can use enemies as platforms and gain height with each bounce to reach higher ground in what I find to be more interesting and involved than, say, Tails's flight. On top, you can also take some of Tails and Knuckle's paths, with the later being more fun since you actually smash the walls instead of them automatically breaking at touch like with Knuckles.

Just playing both the first Advance and the Amy hacks and comparing to Mania's Ray and Mighty makes me feel that the developers either picked the either because they were the easy (and lazy) solution, or they simply didn't have the talent to come with more creative ideas, which is strange considering the things added to Mania like the puzzle fight against Eggman.

Also like another member say, I absolutely oppose the idea of Amy being relegated to a mode in which she's under the shadow of Sonic. It really annoys me how this character is seen as lesser or "not good enough" to be a hero for all the wrong reasons. Sure, Amy follows Sonic everywhere, just like Tails does... However, unlike Tails, Amy is in no way bound to Sonic (her adoration doesn't cloud her judgement) and can act much more independantly, going on her own adventures that are still linked to the main plot, much like in the first Sonic Adventure where she gets separated from Sonic and ends up meeting other characters whom she helps and in cases, even leaves an impact that changes their lives... Things that the much more celebrated Tails and Knuckles have never done and which is only second to Sonic. Why Sonic Team refuses to invest in Classic Amy within the games and have her get a level up in badass like her modern self is one of the things that I have never liked about the classic universe (along with the Chaotix apparently now being modern-exclussive), and ends up being just another missed opportunity like the many upon which this franchise is standing over because of developers that are too afraid to step out of their comfort zone.

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36 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

However, unlike Tails, Amy is in no way bound to Sonic (her adoration doesn't cloud her judgement)

She goes face blind whenever she sees someone she thinks might be Sonic. I would say her adoration clouds a lot of things.

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13 hours ago, Diogenes said:

She goes face blind whenever she sees someone she thinks might be Sonic. I would say her adoration clouds a lot of things.

At least she can be trusted to defend herself

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StaticMania
8 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

IMO Amy's gameplay from Advance is the most ingenious twist to the core gameplay that the 2-D Genesis styled games offer, and one that no other character has ever tried to emulate since they all follow the lazy approach of copying Sonic's signature moveset, add one or two abilities and call it a day, lol (Something I think deserves much, much more to be bashed for actually offering nothing of interest that hasn't been done already).

It probsly isn't bashed because it's standard business for platformers, even the basic-est of basic  platformers do it. Amy does need to be pre-prepped, if the levels aren't also designed around her gimmick...it's dead. While Advance 1 was, it also ended up being a lot more blocky and a lot less Sonic-y...layout wise.

 

In a Mania like game, her Advance 1 moveset isn't viable. Since it's gonna be classic Amy anyway, just do 2 things. Make her jump vulnerable until she pushes the jump button again (Hammer or curling, doesn't matter Advance series did both) and give her the peel-out instead of the spin dash.

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I don't get how Ray is lazy or offers nothing new or interesting. Yeah it's a flight ability but it's entirely different from Tails' or Knuckles' because of how fast and fluidly it controls. It's become a viable speedrunning tactic, something other flight-based characters can't boast. Maybe Amy had more thought put into her moveset but Ray is infinitely more fun than her and most characters that have come before him.

I like Amy's gameplay, but I'd rather take a Sonic that only has one new ability but opens up new opportunities on how I can approach obstacles and enemies, over a character that has many new abilities but plays completely differently and risks not having the qualities I like in playing a Sonic game.

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  • 2 months later...

Maybe Ray needs a drawback?

 

Also, apparently the Mania crew visited Sega in japan for something... could this be a sign?

 

Again, I think 2 acts is fine, but the occasional 1 or 3 act Zone for variety is always nice. I don’t mind returning zones as long as there aren’t too many. Given how Scrap Brain and Hidden Palace got deleted and weren’t restored for Plus, I kinda expect them to be in the next game. What if Metal Sonic went on his own warpath before finding the heroes, especially if the ol Egg is missing after Plus and TSR? 

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1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

 

Also, apparently the Mania crew visited Sega in japan for something... could this be a sign?

 

Do you have a source on this?

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1 hour ago, Miragnarok said:

Given how Scrap Brain and Hidden Palace got deleted and weren’t restored for Plus, I kinda expect them to be in the next game. What if Metal Sonic went on his own warpath before finding the heroes, especially if the ol Egg is missing after Plus and TSR? 

I'm pretty sure the only mention I've seen of Scrap Brain and Hidden Palace in Mania was that they were bits of leftover data from the Sonic 1/2 mobile remakes.  Obviously Mania began life as those games, and they probably either used those assets for testing purposes with no intent of making them full stages in the final game or... they're literally just leftover, unnecessary data that they never took out.

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13 hours ago, Wraith said:

Do you have a source on this?

It was on twitter, I remember seeing it too.

Anyway, I don't understand this: how can a character that plays almost like Sonic but with one... yeah, fun skill I admit, like Ray, be more fun to play than a character like Amy, who has plenty of abilities and possibilities for a good gameplay, that they just need to adapt to the standard Sonic gameplay, and is really iconic to the series and videogames in general? I don't dislike Ray, I like playing as him, but yeah Amy would make for a more fun playable character than both Mighty and Ray, who are still cool though, I loved them in Plus, it was what sold the update.

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For a sequel I only want new stuff. No recycled ideas anymore, no nostalgia pandering, I just want new ideas for the next 2D game. They should create new zones, I do not want to see any old zones again. The Mania proofed that they can come up with very unique zone ideas, like with Press Garden and Studiopolis. Image how many cool zone ideas we will get with Mania 2. I also want to see new Badniks, and new bosses, a new story and maybe some new playable character. Classic Amy maybe, Classic Team Chaotix, maybe even Nack, Bean and Bark I don't know.

My only wish is, no more old ideas like Green Hill or Chemical Plant. I'm sick of those zones. 

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expansivelovestories
4 hours ago, Rowl said:

Of a sequel I only want new stuff. No recycled ideas anymore, no nostalgia pandering, I just want new ideas for the next 2D game. They should create new zones, I do not want to see any old zones again. The Mania proofed that they can come up with very unique zone ideas, like with Press Garden and Studiopolis. Imagine how many cool zone ideas we will get with Mania 2.

Theoretically they do have a few layers/eras of concept art and written concepts for more original zones, meaning, the Sonic Discovery era, and maybe from one or more brainstorming sessions within the development process for Mania!

 

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6 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

 

Anyway, I don't understand this: how can a character that plays almost like Sonic but with one... yeah, fun skill I admit, like Ray, be more fun to play than a character like Amy, who has plenty of abilities and possibilities for a good gameplay, that they just need to adapt to the standard Sonic gameplay, and is really iconic to the series and videogames in general? I don't dislike Ray, I like playing as him, but yeah Amy would make for a more fun playable character than both Mighty and Ray, who are still cool though, I loved them in Plus, it was what sold the update.

Being unique shouldn't just be for being unique's sake. Sometimes the smallest changes can make all the difference. 

Knuckles is further removed from Sonic than Ray is but I've never particularly enjoyed playing as him. Ray's small tweaks make him a blast to play. 

If you just really like Amy and want to play as her then I agree, but I personally wouldn't mind if they dropped some of the mechanics that made her unique in exchange for a kit that worked better with the type of level design classic sonic has.

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6 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

It was on twitter, I remember seeing it too.

Anyway, I don't understand this: how can a character that plays almost like Sonic but with one... yeah, fun skill I admit, like Ray, be more fun to play than a character like Amy, who has plenty of abilities and possibilities for a good gameplay, that they just need to adapt to the standard Sonic gameplay, and is really iconic to the series and videogames in general? I don't dislike Ray, I like playing as him, but yeah Amy would make for a more fun playable character than both Mighty and Ray, who are still cool though, I loved them in Plus, it was what sold the update.

Here:

 

http://thesonicpress.blogspot.com/2018/09/sonic-mania-team-currently-in-japan.html?m=1

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That's a matter of taste then, because Knuckles is my favorite character to play in the classic games. Mostly because he gets his own paths and sometimes exclusive acts. So if Tails and Ray got those too, I would be happy, there is potential.

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On 10/28/2018 at 4:14 PM, I Love Sticks said:

That's a matter of taste then, because Knuckles is my favorite character to play in the classic games. Mostly because he gets his own paths and sometimes exclusive acts. So if Tails and Ray got those too, I would be happy, there is potential.

I have to say it was a slight disappointment to me that knuckles and only knuckles got an exclusive act in mania, simply on legacy purposes that his campaign was different in S&K.  I know it'd be some work but I'd love if every character could get a unique act somewhere in the game that tests their abilities thoroughly with unique gimmicks that can be developed thoroughly throughout a single stage. Preferably in a different zone for each character since I know on replays I would jump out of my sonic playthrough to replay those single stages from the stage select as I reach them, in order to experience the full game's content in one go.

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On 10/30/2018 at 12:25 PM, JezMM said:

I have to say it was a slight disappointment to me that knuckles and only knuckles got an exclusive act in mania, simply on legacy purposes that his campaign was different in S&K.  I know it'd be some work but I'd love if every character could get a unique act somewhere in the game that tests their abilities thoroughly with unique gimmicks that can be developed thoroughly throughout a single stage. Preferably in a different zone for each character since I know on replays I would jump out of my sonic playthrough to replay those single stages from the stage select as I reach them, in order to experience the full game's content in one go.

Even Mighty could also get one with a lot of tight walls and things to smash from above. Heck, a stage for, say, Tails or Mighty, or Knuckles or Tails, could work. Make the game even more distinct per character.

 

1 Act of Tails & Ray

1 act of Tails & Knuckles

1 Act of Ray & Mighty

1 Act of Tails & Ray

1 Act of Tails & Mighty

1 Act of Knuckles & Mighty

1 Act of Sonic & Tails, etc. That’s well over 20 combinations for exclusive acts. This also includes the possibility of stages for 3 characters, or all but one character.

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