Sonic Mania: Sequel Speculation (Spoilers)

[Splash the Otter]

5 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

I'm still convinced Super Tails and the Flicky Army of Death were mere possibilities that didn't actually happen.

Technically that was Hyper Tails, but an actual Super Tails does exist as of Mania. Hopefully everyone else will get Super forms in the future.

[Diogenes]

6 hours ago, Jango said:

Another thing I wish to be implemented is the ability to transform back into normal form. Sometimes I just want to go Super to avoid loosing all my rings in a tricky path, but once you go Super, the only way to go back to normal without dying or running out of rings is by entering a bonus stage. Also, going Super makes you loose some secrets that can only be accessed/obtained with a specific shield on (Press Garden, Green Hill has these). A brief time limit to transform back could be added as well. I don't think it's impossible to implement, right?

It's definitely possible, but personally I like there being a bit of a tradeoff. Sure, you can have incredible power that trivializes most of the game's obstacles, but you can't completely fall asleep at the wheel; you need the planning and/or skill to manage your ring count or you risk ending up worse off than before. I also like the narrative implications of that, that it's more of a wild and uncontrolled state that will only end once it's drained away your strength, and not just a safe and stable powerup.

...y'know while I wouldn't want to go back to that style, I can kinda appreciate Sonic 2's implementation from afar; because you transform just by jumping, you will end up transforming even when you don't want to, leading to more of those tense rushes to keep it active.

2 hours ago, Splash the Otter said:

Technically that was Hyper Tails,

No, technically, it's Super Tails.

[Splash the Otter]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

No, technically, it's Super Tails.

It's called Super Tails, but in practice it's actually a Hyper form. Notice how it requires the Chaos Emeralds to be upgraded? Compare this to Super Tails in Mania, who only needs regular Chaos Emeralds and doesn't have flickies.

[Diogenes]

Just now, Splash the Otter said:

It's called Super Tails

Yeah, that's what I said. Technically, it's Super Tails. Doesn't matter that he uses the Super Emeralds and that he has a special ability like Hyper Sonic and Hyper Knuckles. Game says he's Super, so he's Super.

[Splash the Otter]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Yeah, that's what I said. Technically, it's Super Tails. Doesn't matter that he uses the Super Emeralds and that he has a special ability like Hyper Sonic and Hyper Knuckles. Game says he's Super, so he's Super.

It's a Super form in name only.

[Diogenes]

Yes that's why he's technically Super Tails and not technically Hyper Tails.

[Splash the Otter]

25 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yes that's why he's technically Super Tails and not technically Hyper Tails.

Do you even know what "technically" means?

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Do you even know what "technically" means?

Yes, I do. Tails' form in S3&K is technically Super Tails, despite the fact that he uses the Super emeralds.

[Splash the Otter]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yes, I do. Tails' form in S3&K is technically Super Tails, despite the fact that he uses the Super emeralds.

NO. IT. ISN'T. It's a fucking Hyper form! He uses the Super Emeralds and has a special ability like Hyper Sonic and Hyper Knuckles! I don't care if it's called Super Tails, that name is innacurate!

This is Super Tails:

 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Quote

NO. IT. ISN'T. It's a fucking Hyper form! He uses the Super Emeralds and has a special ability like Hyper Sonic and Hyper Knuckles! I don't care if it's called Super Tails, that name is innacurate!

I get it, the game is wrong and you're right. lol

Yeah, Diogenes is...inarguably right on this one. The form is called "Super Tails". That's its name. There's no way to argue with that. It might resemble a hyper form, but its name isn't Hyper Tails. The idea that it's "really a hyper form" and therefore "should" be called Hyper Tails (even though it factually isn't so it's a bit of a moot point anyway) isn't something that can be proven at all (for all we know, what makes a form "hyper" is not what you think). Therefore, it's not "technically" Hyper Tails because...it's officially Super Tails. Period. There is no official source that says it's Hyper Tails except for the old Archie Comics, which is an entirely different universe. There's no argument to be had here. It's honestly obnoxious for someone to insist that what is indisputably true in the game itself is incorrect.

And with that, let's get this thread back on track and not discuss this issue (which is actually a total non-issue) further. Normally in the case of derails, a moderator won't give their opinion on which side is right before telling people to get back on track as that allows one side to get the last word in, which might be perceived as unfair, but in this case, there's nothing to actually dispute, as it's simply a matter of fact.

[Splash the Otter]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

I get it, the game is wrong and you're right. lol

Exactly!

5 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

Yeah, Diogenes is...inarguably right on this one.

No he isn't.

5 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

The form is called "Super Tails". That's its name.

The name is wrong though.

5 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

There's no way to argue with that.

Just try me!

5 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

It might resemble a hyper form,

Yes, because that's what it is.

5 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

but its name isn't Hyper Tails.

It should be.

5 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

The idea that it's "really a hyper form" and therefore "should" be called Hyper Tails (even though it factually isn't so it's a bit of a moot point anyway) isn't something that can be proven at all (for all we know, what makes a form "hyper" is not what you think). Therefore, it's not "technically" Hyper Tails because...it's officially Super Tails. Period.

But that's stupid!

5 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

There is no official source that says it's Hyper Tails except for the old Archie Comics, which is an entirely different universe. There's no argument to be had here. It's honestly obnoxious for someone to insist that what is indisputably true in the game itself is incorrect.

Are you calling me obnoxious? How dare you!

 

[Zaysho]

4 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Are you calling me obnoxious? How dare you!

If MDS isn't, I will.

 

Jesus Christ, dude, you don't need to get this heated. Knock it off and go cool off. This thread needs to get back on track and anything else along these lines will be subject to removal.

[Jango]

6 hours ago, Diogenes said:

It's definitely possible, but personally I like there being a bit of a tradeoff. Sure, you can have incredible power that trivializes most of the game's obstacles, but you can't completely fall asleep at the wheel; you need the planning and/or skill to manage your ring count or you risk ending up worse off than before. I also like the narrative implications of that, that it's more of a wild and uncontrolled state that will only end once it's drained away your strength, and not just a safe and stable powerup.

...y'know while I wouldn't want to go back to that style, I can kinda appreciate Sonic 2's implementation from afar; because you transform just by jumping, you will end up transforming even when you don't want to, leading to more of those tense rushes to keep it active.

No, technically, it's Super Tails.

I... Don't think it has to be that dramatic and insightful. Rare are the times where I need to think any strategy when going Super. Just add a blessed button to reverse the transformation (could simply be the same used to transform) and give it a time limit to be able to go Super again.

 

 

 

BTW, it is Super Tails :V 

[Blue Blood]

I've never been the biggest fan of the idea of an untransform option. Super Sonic is already almost-God mode, so having to at least consider where and when you transform adds a small bit of strategy to stop the game from being too easy. If you can't control Super Sonic or maintain your ring count... Git gud. It's not difficult to keep collecting rings. The faster acceleration of Super Sonic means that you also need to approach platforming work more caution. Being able to snap of it feels cheap.

S4E2 and Lost World both have detransformation with special moves, and Forces has fully automatic transformation as soon as you hit 50 rings (Mania and 3K also let you revert to normal by entering bonus stages). I don't like any of those mechanics.

[Jango]

1 hour ago, Blue Blood said:

I've never been the biggest fan of the idea of an untransform option. Super Sonic is already almost-God mode, so having to at least consider where and when you transform adds a small bit of strategy to stop the game from being too easy. If you can't control Super Sonic or maintain your ring count... Git gud. It's not difficult to keep collecting rings. The faster acceleration of Super Sonic means that you also need to approach platforming work more caution. Being able to snap of it feels cheap.

S4E2 and Lost World both have detransformation with special moves, and Forces has fully automatic transformation as soon as you hit 50 rings (Mania and 3K also let you revert to normal by entering bonus stages). I don't like any of those mechanics.

It's not about getting good, tho', I am good at freaking Sonic the Hedgehog, it was just a suggestion. Having a time limit sorta like a "punishment" for untransforming should be enough to keep things fair. I just want to get all rings, man, but some parts are cheap :V Also, sometimes I just wanna go back to normal to listen back to the level's music hehe

[Blue Blood]

Generations definitely had the right idea about not having a Super Sonic theme. Mania at least has an awesome theme, but even that gets repetitive when you could be listening to the stage music instead. I wouldn't be against going the Generations route for music.

If collecting the rings is that much fun for you, why not just get rid of the time limit entirely? There's nothing wrong with having a time bonus, but the game doesn't need to arbitrarily kill you when you hit 10 minutes. I'd actually really enjoy a Ring Attack mode with a time limit, wherein you have to collect as many times as possible in a set time.

[BaronGrackle]

4 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Generations definitely had the right idea about not having a Super Sonic theme. Mania at least has an awesome theme, but even that gets repetitive when you could be listening to the stage music instead. I wouldn't be against going the Generations route for music.

If collecting the rings is that much fun for you, why not just get rid of the time limit entirely? There's nothing wrong with having a time bonus, but the game doesn't need to arbitrarily kill you when you hit 10 minutes. I'd actually really enjoy a Ring Attack mode with a time limit, wherein you have to collect as many times as possible in a set time.

 

24 minutes ago, Jango said:

It's not about getting good, tho', I am good at freaking Sonic the Hedgehog, it was just a suggestion. Having a time limit sorta like a "punishment" for untransforming should be enough to keep things fair. I just want to get all rings, man, but some parts are cheap :V Also, sometimes I just wanna go back to normal to listen back to the level's music hehe

What I'm hearing is that all zone songs need a Super Sonic remix version available

[Blue Blood]

2 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

What I'm hearing is that all zone songs need a Super Sonic remix version available

What I'm hearing is just not having a Super Sonic theme at all.

[Jango]

35 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Generations definitely had the right idea about not having a Super Sonic theme. Mania at least has an awesome theme, but even that gets repetitive when you could be listening to the stage music instead. I wouldn't be against going the Generations route for music.

If collecting the rings is that much fun for you, why not just get rid of the time limit entirely? There's nothing wrong with having a time bonus, but the game doesn't need to arbitrarily kill you when you hit 10 minutes. I'd actually really enjoy a Ring Attack mode with a time limit, wherein you have to collect as many times as possible in a set time.

Yes! Which was my first suggestion xD Ring Attack mode. There could be two kinds: get as many and finish the level within 10 minutes and a Free Mode (no time limit). Everybody wins!

What I'm hearing is add the option to dissable Super Sonic's theme. Easy peasy.

[JezMM]

I feel like having a "Super Sonic version" of every zone's theme is cool in concept but a lot of work that will ultimately only serve to make the regular version of the theme feel a little underwhelming once you've gotten used to the Super Sonic version.

I also agree that the untransform button kinda cheapens the Super Sonic experience.  I guess there's nothing technically wrong with letting people play the game however they want to, but maybe that's better off as a (defaulted to off) options menu thing.

I will say, I think there is some definite fun to have from the countdown time pressure of maintaining Super Sonic.  I'd love some kind of "Super Sonic mode", for a new way to play the game.  Reduce the total amount of rings in the stage, add a few more enemies or hazards, and make rings non-recollectable if you get hit.  I'm not sure if you'd need to add some kind of "you need to reach the end AS Super Sonic to clear the stage" to complete the package, but either way it'd be a nice way to challenge the player in a way that encourages them to wildly blast through the stage as Super Sonic in an efficient manner or end up in a state of extreme vulnerability until they can recollect 50 rings (without getting hit, no less).

Keep Super Sonic as we know him too of course, but it's always been a slight nitpick for me that so often in Sonic, the only reward you get for mastering the game is a new way to play it that is inarguably "easier" rather than being a new kind of challenge.

[Indigo Rush]

On 2/23/2018 at 11:34 AM, A person, that exists said:

HA-HA-HA-HA! 

Plot? In a CLASSIC SONIC game? 

Keep in mind that the closest thing we got to an actual story in a classic Sonic game was this:

Right, okay. I'm not letting this slide.

http://www.tssznews.com/2016/05/18/reasonable-assesment-sonic-3-knuckles-story-the-monomyth/

If you limit the scope of storytelling to dialogue and written text, then I suppose Sonic 3D Blast has more of a plot, but I simply don't agree. There's so much happening in a game like Sonic 3 that it can be analyzed as a full story, and I hope you take the time to read the article I sent you so you could understand this.

I'm so sick of people saying that classic Sonic doesn't have a good plot (or even a plot at all!) because it doesn't resemble the presentation of an Adventure game or something; likewise I'm sick of people claiming that said Adventure games have a good, deep and serious plot simply because it has cutscenes.

Anyway, I'mma leave it at that.

[A person, that exists]

3 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

I'm so sick of people saying that classic Sonic doesn't have a good plot (or even a plot at all!) because it doesn't resemble the presentation of an Adventure game or something; 

Honestly, Adventure's plot sucks too.

Sonic should NEVER have a story, really.

Like, let's be real: Adventure did it because it was "Cool at the time", and even as a fan of those games I can say that it is kinda bullshit.

Nowadays however, Sonic's cutscenes are even weaker, so why not remove them entirely? 

[Meta77]

Sonic shouldn't have a story.  The hell. J guess Mario, crash, spyro, and nearly any game outside bubsy doesn't need a story.

Classic sonic had a story but a very simple one. Thanks manuals of a mad man trying to get emeralds to power his plants.  to getting them in 2 to yet again power his d.egg, to wanting the master emerald to power it up again. Toss in a gullible echidna and that's it for the classics story

At least with 3d sonic they tried to expand on plot they were not so simplistic. Adventure may have been far from perfect but they tried making a pretty big connected story from a water god that was sealed inside the emerald by final giving up her life while it was enraged because he saw his friends trampled by greedy echidna that wanted the emeralds power  for themselves and nearly wiped out the world who would be released by eggman to help him take over the world to build his eggmanland but was actually bidding his time to get all the emeralds while sonic learns of final over the course of the game. Tos s in e102 and Amy and the rest also

To sa2 which boy it's a dozy as well with the gov gunning down shadows friend in front of him and Gerald killed by firing squad. 

Sonic can and should have a plot.  Granted some fans just want to run

[Wrz]

Yeah, as someone who grew up with the Genesis games, and where Sonic Mania was the first Sonic game I truly enjoyed since 1994's release of Sonic and Knuckles I prefer the 'classic' approach to storytelling - no text, just very short segments as zone transitions that IMO give you enough to go on in terms of the plot. I was never a big fan of long cut scenes, spoken dialogue, etc in platformer games.

[Meta77]

I myself as someone born 89 on
the genesis games prefer adventure style stories as a overall plot is a good thing bit it depends on how engaging you want your game. If this were the 91 the simple no real story would work. Kids don't follow deep tales. We made our own in our heads of. Also transitions did not come until 3 and knuckles and even the barely told anything.  some people can't handle complex stories some can it's all a preference.  but if Mario can do it sonic can to. Just Sega needs to spend more time on it and have faith in their bigger games for once. Seriously they never seem to.