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Sonic Mania: Sequel Speculation (Spoilers)


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2 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Nowadays however, Sonic's cutscenes are even weaker, so why not remove them entirely? 

Because they could, instead, do the thing but just... not badly.

I definitely agree that as far as "end results" go, no plot is better than terrible plot that cockteases us into thinking there's something to care about and then falling flat.

But as far as "starting intentions" go, I'd ALWAYS rather they have another go at making an appealing, interesting plot over not bothering at all.  If they fail again, I can take the hit.

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Splash the Otter

I hate when people say that Sonic games shouldn't have a story. No story means no reason for me to care about what's going on.

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A person, that exists

Well, it's nice to see that sweet, sweet rage.

Calm the heck down, guys, I was just joking.

Like, is my sarcasm not obvious?

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1 minute ago, A person, that exists said:

Well, it's nice to see that sweet, sweet rage.

Calm the heck down, guys, I was just joking.

Like, is my sarcasm not obvious?

It's not, because you just came from claiming that Classic Sonic games didn't have a plot at all.

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A person, that exists
Just now, Indigo Rush said:

It's not, because you just came from claiming that Classic Sonic games didn't have a plot at all.

Oh.

Well then, that's kinda reasonable.

I'm sorry folks.

I suppose that this wasn't AS OBVIOUS as I thought it was.

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13 hours ago, A person, that exists said:

Well, it's nice to see that sweet, sweet rage.

Calm the heck down, guys, I was just joking.

Like, is my sarcasm not obvious?

Glad to see you enjoyed annoying some people :)

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I've always pondered what would be the best way to tackle a novelization of the earlier games. You have your key plot and your characters etc, you have main events and boss encounters to cover.  But how would you deal with the actual zones? Pick some key elements and have the reader visualize Sonic traversing these environments themselves with the help of some minor exposition? I mean the locations and journey are important but considering it's a platform game and much of the gameplay is running and avoiding obstacles, how would you pad that in an enjoyable reading experience while not essentially skipping the bread and butter of the game and the world it takes place in.

it's that writers block that's always held me back from trying to cohesively write up the events of all the classic titles as a pet project.

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I'm not sure Sonic, perhaps not any platformer game, is really appropriate for novelisation; the focus is on gameplay rather than incident, and the only consistent factor would be the pretty backdrop.  Even the comics essentially just give you short impressions.  The best I can think of, initial landscape description aside, would be picking up on specific gimmicks and set-pieces and writing action scenes set around them.  Maybe reimagine the boss fights as individual diabolical plots set inside each zone.  But the two would be completely different experiences; platforming gameplay and interesting narrative are more or less incompatible.  What are the strategies which games come up with to combine the two?  Alternating gameplay and cutscene, which is no integration; background detail, in-level dialogue, pausing to talk to characters?  They're either non-interactive or genuinely intrusive.

I'll be the first to say I enjoy the way story was handled in games like S3&K, but realistically, it's largely down to clever set-dressing, and that's why it works.  Background development and aesthetic evolution within zones rather than just between them; brief cutscenes, sometimes even with limited (but ultimately inconsequential) interactivity; occasional non-standard level length and pacing; different styles of boss fight.  You're fed subtly different kinds of gameplay which are still within the standard but which are visually themed as distinctive incidents, while your eyes are fed not just major but also subtle changes which read as continuity and development, which delivers a sense of progress and achievement.  And yet the actual impact on fundamental gameplay is minimum, by design.  It's brilliant.

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On 27/2/2018 at 3:31 PM, Meta77 said:

Also transitions did not come until 3 and knuckles and even the barely told anything.

I think Sonic 1 8 bit had a couple of level transitions before Sonic 3 did, but very few people noticed it.

There is a change of background when you go from Jungle to Labyrinth, after defeating the boss and breaking the capsule with the animals, Sonic automatically runs right out from the screen (he does it in every zone), but this time you have the background filled with orange block (and some solid blocks on the ceiling), to represent the fact that you are going into some ruins.

Also, there is a clear level transition from Scrap Brain to Sky Base (the elevator), and if that counts, the whole Sky Base zone is an huge transition from some metallic platforms in the sky, to Eggman's airship, to the boss room.

At the end of the game there is a cutscene where Sonic and Eggman use a teleporter to reach Green Hill, at that point the game is finished but it's a sort of transition as well.

I think you can also count act 3 of Scrap Brain in the Genesis version of the game as a transition (the labyrinth part), and Sky Chase from Sonic 2 as well.

 

As a kid, I enjoyed drawing maps of the islands from the Sonic games, placing the zones in a way that it made sense. I liked the level transitions because it helped me to figure out the shape of the territory, and imagine it as a single big world. I think that Mania missed that aspect with the phantom ruby teleportation thing, it's something that bugged me from that game and one of the reasons (not the only one and not even one of the biggest ones) why I still prefer the original classics, especially Sonic 3.

Otherwise, I think it's better to not have long cutscenes, better to have in-game events and the story should be intuitive with as little text/dialogues as possible; but a story is actually needed, simple or complex.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Red Hot Jack

Bringing this up again because now it seems they are really interested in having more Mania in general (I wonder if this means Modern is dying, sadly), I would be okay if a Mania 2 happened but with all-new stages and in HD graphics, and I insist saying that, pixel art just doesn't do for me anymore.

And obviously playable Amy, it's clear they are snobbing her to include her in the sequel.

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HywelAtTheMoon

If Mighty and Ray can get into Sonic Mania Plus, then I'm expecting Tiara, Heavy and Bomb to make it into Sonic Mania 2.

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14 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

If Mighty and Ray can get into Sonic Mania Plus, then I'm expecting Tiara, Heavy and Bomb to make it into Sonic Mania 2.

In the case of Tiara, according to Ian (I think he was the one who said it), there are some legal complications regarding Tiara.

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23 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

If Mighty and Ray can get into Sonic Mania Plus, then I'm expecting Tiara, Heavy and Bomb to make it into Sonic Mania 2.

I think Honey is more possible than Tiara. I would prefer Honey anyway, I love her in the comics.

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2 minutes ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

Apart from these three, which classic characters haven't appeared in a while? 

I think that's it for the lost of forgotten character from games.

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23 hours ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Bringing this up again because now it seems they are really interested in having more Mania in general (I wonder if this means Modern is dying, sadly), I would be okay if a Mania 2 happened but with all-new stages and in HD graphics, and I insist saying that, pixel art just doesn't do for me anymore.

And obviously playable Amy, it's clear they are snobbing her to include her in the sequel.

Pixel art is love. It can be improved upon on a sequel. Mania's pixel art is beautifuly done. But it can be done even better. Games with HD hand draw graphics, especially with 3D backgrounds, are becoming generic these days, unless it's something as stylized as Rayman Origins, which is fully hand draw, but that style is more expensive and demands more time, which means less zones, less game. Unless SEGA can give Mania Team all the time they need to do it, this isn't happening. For all we know, they rushed the Mania we got already, which is why there was stuff missing and some sound issues. 

I say, stick with pixel art, improve it slightly. Ironically, pixel art is an art style that will hardly go out of fashion, it's retro, while HD hand draw graphics are becoming generic already.

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21 hours ago, Jack of Tangles said:

Bringing this up again because now it seems they are really interested in having more Mania in general (I wonder if this means Modern is dying, sadly), I would be okay if a Mania 2 happened but with all-new stages and in HD graphics, and I insist saying that, pixel art just doesn't do for me anymore.

And obviously playable Amy, it's clear they are snobbing her to include her in the sequel.

Why on Earth would that mean Modern is over? Is there some reason the two can't co-exist? And HD graphics aren't happening either way.

The team are also not snubbing Amy. It would take a fair bit more work for her to be done justice, while Mighty and Ray aren't likely to play very differently to what we've experienced before. After all, they have to work these two into the established level design. She's sequel material and that can only be good for her.

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I'd love if drop dash was made available for all 5 characters. I still find it unfair that only Sonic can do it. It's like only Sonic could do spin dash.

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5 minutes ago, molul said:

I'd love if drop dash was made available for all 5 characters. I still find it unfair that only Sonic can do it. It's like only Sonic could do spin dash.

Actually, it's like if only Tails could fly and only Knuckles could climb and glide.

Seriously Sonic deserves something of his own that helps him get around.

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10 minutes ago, molul said:

I'd love if drop dash was made available for all 5 characters. I still find it unfair that only Sonic can do it. It's like only Sonic could do spin dash.

Actually, it´s not really like that. Tails´ flying and Knuckles´ gliding/climbing is quite game breaking, so it can be understood they wanted to have something extra for Sonic.

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3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Seriously Sonic deserves something of his own that helps him get around.

Insta-shield should be the move realized to take that role, but I've spoken of that enough. 

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Just now, A crocodile said:

Insta-shield should be the move realized to take that role, but I've spoken of that enough. 

But insta-shield never helps you with going through the level faster than without it, except for the bosses.

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