Sonic Mania: Sequel Speculation (Spoilers)

[Osmium]

10 minutes ago, superman43 said:

But insta-shield never helps you with going through the level faster than without it, except for the bosses.

Except it did. 

Insta-shield was an excellent way to break through badniks and obstacles (such as the lightning in the Death Egg Zone and the laser bars in Launch Base) that could normally damage Sonic in ball form and thus not break motion, also giving Sonic a much larger attack barrier to destroy more things around him at once. And it was converted to the useful air moves when he got a shield. Sonic's air motions are a great contrast to Tails and Knuckles' motions. Tails and Knuckles moved large distances in the air while being vulnerable, slow, and cumbersome while Sonic achieved fast bumps of motion in the air while being protected. Distance is traded for speed and agility. 

I'm always frustrated that something as uniquely "Sonic" as the insta-shield never went anywhere. It should be an integral part of his moveset. 

[superman43]

1 minute ago, A crocodile said:

Except it did. 

Insta-shield was an excellent way to break through badniks and obstacles (such as the lightning in the Death Egg Zone and the laser bars in Launch Base) that could normally damage Sonic in ball form and thus not break motion, and it was converted to the useful air moves when he got a shield. Sonic's air motions are a great contrast to Tails and Knuckles' motions. Tails and Knuckles moved large distances in the air while being vulnerable, slow, and cumbersome while Sonic achieved fast bumps of motion in the air while being protected. Distance is traded for speed and agility. 

I will admit that, but still Drop Dash gives you more speed. I saw somewhere in discussions that Drop Dash is still the same. From the personal observance that´s not true, it heavily relies on positioning. That basically makes it at par with Insta-shield. For Insta-shield as well as Drop Dash you have to know the right moment to use it, otherwise it won´t help. 

[Osmium]

2 minutes ago, superman43 said:

I will admit that, but still Drop Dash gives you more speed. I saw somewhere in discussions that Drop Dash is still the same. From the personal observance that´s not true, it heavily relies on positioning. That basically makes it at par with Insta-shield. For Insta-shield as well as Drop Dash you have to know the right moment to use it, otherwise it won´t help. 

I honestly think Drop Dash would be much more fitting in an open 3D game, where a sudden break in horizontal motion to land vertically on a platform would be more useful in precarious spots. 

I mean, Drop Dash is okay too but Insta-Shield is just such a distinctive use of Sonic's air motions that it shouldn't have died. 

[superman43]

1 minute ago, A crocodile said:

I honestly think Drop Dash would be much more fitting in an open 3D game, where a sudden break in horizontal motion to land vertically on a platform would be more useful in precarious spots. 

I mean, Drop Dash is okay too but Insta-Shield is just such a distinctive use of Sonic's air motions that it shouldn't have died. 

Well, I honestly think that ehm... people were and still are kinda spoiled with Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Insta-shield, Bonus stages giving you rings and shields (practically 2/3 true for the latter, totally true for S3 and 1/2 true for S and K). That´s what Mania is criticised about, if I forgot something important, tell me.

Oh yeah and the longevity of Blue Spheres as Bonus Stage and no need for playing it after getting all medals.

So... I still think that people can´t overcome that S3K was supposed to be one game and Insta-Shield and what-not wanted to be one-time feat, e.g. Knuckles, as well.

[Osmium]

5 minutes ago, superman43 said:

Well, I honestly think that ehm... people were and still are kinda spoiled with Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Insta-shield, Bonus stages giving you rings and shields (practically 2/3 true for the latter, totally true for S3 and 1/2 true for S and K). That´s what Mania is criticised about, if I forgot something important, tell me.

Oh yeah and the longevity of Blue Spheres as Bonus Stage and no need for playing it after getting all medals.

So... I still think that people can´t overcome that S3K was supposed to be one game and Insta-Shield and what-not wanted to be one-time feat, e.g. Knuckles, as well.

Couldn't disagree more. Things from 3K come back because they were what worked best in the classic games. I don't really care if Insta-Shield and Knuckles weren't meant to come back (and that is a pretty debatable claim anyway), things can evolve beyond their intended role. Insta-Shield is a fantastic move that should have stuck on with Sonic as long as possible and as I have shown, it is incredibly useful and unlike something like the peel-out, doesn't just take up space, it has a distinct role. 

[Cookie_Crumbs]

3 minutes ago, superman43 said:

So... I still think that people can´t overcome that S3K was supposed to be one game and Insta-Shield and what-not wanted to be one-time feat, e.g. Knuckles, as well.

Also the Insta-Shield was in Sonic Advance 1 and 3. I think that qualfies it as a semi-standard move at the very least.

[superman43]

5 minutes ago, Cookie_Crumbs said:

Also the Insta-Shield was in Sonic Advance 1 and 3. I think that qualfies it as a semi-standard move at the very least.

In 2001 and 2004 maybe. Before it... well, my soft guess is that it was more of finding a natural addition to the Sonic´s moveset, unlike Peel-Out or even Spin Dash. 

Second thing, Sonic Adventure was meant to be an extension of the Sonic 3´s Sonic, as, well, it has lot of common, like areas (Angel Island), mentions of CD and Sonic 3 plots. 

Taxman and Stealth and all working on Mania wanted to make it an original thing and that´s why they didn´t use Insta-shield. It is more like "WHAT IF?" than anything, isn´t it ? "What if there was Sonic 4 in 90s ? Would it have Insta-shield ?" I guess not.

[molul]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

Actually, it's like if only Tails could fly and only Knuckles could climb and glide.

Seriously Sonic deserves something of his own that helps him get around.

That's insta-shield and elemental shields.

[Diogenes]

The insta-shield doesn't help much with movement, and in Mania, the drop dash replaced it. And the elemental shields are powerups, not inherent abilities, and Sonic shouldn't get screwed out of having a special move of his own just because he doesn't have a shield.

[Osmium]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The insta-shield doesn't help much with movement, and in Mania, the drop dash replaced it. And the elemental shields are powerups, not inherent abilities, and Sonic shouldn't get screwed out of having a special move of his own just because he doesn't have a shield.

Yeah, he shouldn't. Insta-Shield should just be more remembered. 

Insta-Shield does help with movement, but it's more about keeping pace than larger scope of directions. And elemental shields are powerups, but they're an extension of the insta-shield in my opinion as they are all movements that rely on Sonic's quickness combined with spherical shape. 

[TailsTellsTales]

11 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

The insta-shield doesn't help much with movement, and in Mania, the drop dash replaced it. And the elemental shields are powerups, not inherent abilities, and Sonic shouldn't get screwed out of having a special move of his own just because he doesn't have a shield.

Yes power ups that ONLY Sonic can use which helps balance things out.

[molul]

6 minutes ago, TailsTellsTales said:

Yes power ups that ONLY Sonic can use which helps balance things out.

That was my point. Sonic is way overpowered with drop dash and 3 elemental shields power ups. Drop dash is a move that would make sense and would be really cool if Knuckles and Tails (and now Mighty and Ray) could do it.

Also, I was fine with losing insta-shield when getting an elementary shield. But losing drop dash is quite uncool. 

[TailsTellsTales]

7 minutes ago, molul said:

That was my point. Sonic is way overpowered with drop dash and 3 elemental shields power ups. Drop dash is a move that would make sense and would be really cool if Knuckles and Tails (and now Mighty and Ray) could do it.

Also, I was fine with losing insta-shield when getting an elementary shield. But losing drop dash is quite uncool. 

You know that Drop Dash could work nicely for Tails and Knuckles where they are flying and gliding than they can immediately drop and go, also Tails can immediately snap out of flight mode and just land. Definitely some interesting ideas. Also yes Mighty and Ray too.

[Salamander]

I'm torn.  On a level of basic practicality and functionality, the Drop Dash makes sense to be extended to everyone; and yet in its role as an efficient time-saver, it's basically a speed device and therefore more suited to Sonic exclusivity.  From that perspective, there's almost more of an argument for elemental shields to be extended to the other characters.  There will probably always be debate about how to manage the trade-off of abilities between the cast members.  ...But personally I'd put Drop Dash on down and Insta-Shield on jump, and that way Sonic simply gets both.

[molul]

Or down+jump to drop dash (like spin dash but on air) and just jump for normal power (insta-shield, glide and fly).

[Silvereyes]

If Mania gets a sequel, I certainly hope that we get Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Mighty and Ray at the very least as playable characters. I must admit, I can't help but feel a little cynical and think they wouldn't bother putting in Mighty and Ray in Mania 2's base game, instead put in 1 new character (i.e. Amy) and then have Mighty and Ray be DLC a second time around.

I guess my other hope for Mania 2 would be that it is entirely new zones, but again, at the risk of being very cynical, I'd be worried that Sonic Team might insist on recurring zones. Hell, I wouldn't even put it past them to do Green Hill and Chemical Plant again after Forces doing those 2 again.

Honestly though, I try not to get too excited about Mania 2. Until they announce it is in development, or when they accounce the game itself with a trailer, I don't want to presume it exists.

[Multikaris]

On 3/17/2018 at 11:44 AM, HywelAtTheMoon said:

If Mighty and Ray can get into Sonic Mania Plus, then I'm expecting Tiara, Heavy and Bomb to make it into Sonic Mania 2.

And i’m still counting on the Freedom Fighters to at least be given a small nod to down the line. 

 

Also, will Plus contain a teaser for the next Mania? And I also expect Hidden Palace and Scrap Brain in the second if they don’t appear in Plus’s Encore Mode.

[tailsBOOM!]

On 3/17/2018 at 5:00 PM, molul said:

I'd love if drop dash was made available for all 5 characters. I still find it unfair that only Sonic can do it. It's like only Sonic could do spin dash.

Sonic DOES need his own move... though giving a character specific move for each would be way past cool.

[Red Hot Jack]

With Brad Flick looking for new work via a twitter post, do you guys think this lowers the chances of a Mania sequel? I seriously hope not, although he is just one of the 4 level designers for the game, still I'm kinda worried. 

[Detective Kaito]

1 hour ago, Jack the Maniac said:

With Brad Flick looking for new work via a twitter post, do you guys think this lowers the chances of a Mania sequel? I seriously hope not, although he is just one of the 4 level designers for the game, still I'm kinda worried. 

Yes, that is rather interesting. Knowing Sega and Iizuka, they probably fucked up something. Or maybe Brad just wants to move on.

[Sean]

I don't want to assume that this necessarily rules him out from working on a future Sonic game unless he directly confirms it. This only confirms that he's not working on anything immediate at this time.

[Slingerland]

4 hours ago, Sean said:

This only confirms that he's not working on anything immediate at this time.

Be smart like Sean.

[MegasonicZX]

On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 3:42 PM, TailsTellsTales said:

Yes power ups that ONLY Sonic can use which helps balance things out.

Shields are a limited resource and a limited resource that is also just as easily taken away should you take an unfortunate hit. On top of that, unless you go out of your way to get them or actively look for them, some levels often have shields tucked away in some nicely hidden spaces so unlike tails and knux (and pretty much any character that isn't sonic) he doesn't really own the abilities but moreso just borrows them for a short while (since shields can't be carried to different zones, only acts within the one they came from). 

[Red Hot Jack]

2 hours ago, Slingerland said:

Be smart like Sean.

Thanks for this very useful advice. I meant that there are no current plans for Mania 2 at the moment, if he is not even working on Plus, I guess they finished the development for the extra stuff.

[Zaysho]

8 hours ago, Jack the Maniac said:

With Brad Flick looking for new work via a twitter post, do you guys think this lowers the chances of a Mania sequel? I seriously hope not, although he is just one of the 4 level designers for the game, still I'm kinda worried. 

 

7 hours ago, Detective Kaito said:

Yes, that is rather interesting. Knowing Sega and Iizuka, they probably fucked up something. Or maybe Brad just wants to move on.

Contractors looking for work has nothing to do with the chances of a Mania sequel being produced.