Sonic Mania Simon Thomley (Stealth) Stream Info Dump

[superman43]

1 minute ago, Forte-Metallix said:

What's especially interesting is that...

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Counting each individual Act, Mania is the exact same length as 3&K. (25 Acts each) But it technically has one less Zone, since Hidden Palace and Sky Sanctuary are individual one-Act Zones.

 

Mania is the same length as 3&K ? Well, technically you beat Heavy Rider or Heavy King in Hidden Palace.

Even then, for Knuckles it´s longer than 3&K. By 2 or 3 acts depending on what you count as an "act" and what not.

[Tenko]

Why was Knuckles on the Tornado with them during the boss fight in Mirage Saloon Act 1? I haven't had that happen as Sonic & Tails. Weird. 

[superman43]

5 minutes ago, Tenko said:

Why was Knuckles on the Tornado with them during the boss fight in Mirage Saloon Act 1? I haven't had that happen as Sonic & Tails. Weird. 

That´s a glitch. Entering the special stage in the train will make Knuckles appear on the Tornado again. Entering the bonus stage right before the mini-boss won´t.

[Diogenes]

43 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Well if you want to be technical...

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Hidden Palace and the Stardust Speedway boss fight are both counted as individual acts internally within the game. Mirage Saloon also has three distinct acts and bosses.

Pretty sure 3&K does a few things like that too; I think the Lava Reef Act 2 boss is technically its own Act, the two versions of Sky Sanctuary depending on if you're Sonic/Tails or Knuckles, and maybe the giant Death Egg Robo?

[Blue Blood]

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Pretty sure 3&K does a few things like that too; I think the Lava Reef Act 2 boss is technically its own Act, the two versions of Sky Sanctuary depending on if you're Sonic/Tails or Knuckles, and maybe the giant Death Egg Robo?

Yeah, it does. I was drawing more parallels. S3K is a pretty enormous game, and so is Mania.

[superman43]

4 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Yeah, it does. I was drawing more parallels. S3K is a pretty enormous game, and so is Mania.

Is it just me or I am the only one who think there is parallel between Stardust Speedway "2M" and Lava Reef "3" aka boss ? In Mania, you have to race with Metal Sonic up to the point where you get around Eggman´s statue face whereas in 3K Lava Reef boss, you have to go firstly up and then down the lavafall in order to fight Eggman. Well, "fight".

[Plasme]

I hope we could get a stream from the Forces devs too, it'd be great to hear how they are energising Sonic!

[Jango]

I like that Simon confirmed that Team Sonic is travelling together, I wanted this day one. Too bad the only time we see the three amigos actually together:

You know what happened to our man Knuckles I wish they would meet with each other more often throughout the game.

I'm pretty sure Mirage Saloon was supposed to be the zone after Flying Battery, as the Sonic, Tails and Knuckles would escape FBZ on the Tornado. I mean, it makes more sense than it being after Hydrocity...

[Plasme]

Nah dude, the reason why there's no zone transitions is just because the team had no imagination and stopped. There's zero evidence zones were shifted around. Zilch.

[Jango]

Just now, Plasme said:

Nah dude, the reason why there's no zone transitions is just because the team had no imagination and stopped. There's zero evidence zones were shifted around. Zilch.

Alright Beethoven.

[Plasme]

What does Beethoven have to do with anything? How random.

[Celestia]

4 minutes ago, Jango said:

I like that Simon confirmed that Team Sonic is travelling together, I wanted this day one. Too bad the only time we see the three amigos actually together:

There's also that brief moment after the Titanic Monarch Act 2 boss!...At least in the Normal Ending version. And Tails isn't there if you're playing Sonic solo.

[A super No.1 washedupgamer]

8 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Nah dude, the reason why there's no zone transitions is just because the team had no imagination and stopped. There's zero evidence zones were shifted around. Zilch.

Nah cuzz, I believe they intended for there to be zone transitions but they were cut. Everytyme someone asks about it they never comment back. And the act 1 to 2 transitions were so well done.

[Plasme]

There's virtually no evidence any zone transitions were cut. They just stopped halfway through development. They had no dev time and focused on more important stuff. The actual transitions are incredibly lazy too, they probably had no imaginaton either.

[Celestia]

So they focused on more important things and displayed a lot of creativity in the process (whether it's level design or gimmicks), but simultaneously lack imagination?

Considering how easy it is to think up some pretty simple, sensible zone transitions, I'm more inclined to believe it was a time constraint issue. No more no less.

[Plasme]

Mania has hardly any creativity, 75% of the game isn't even new, it's all recycled stuff! It's even more rehash Zone than Sonic 4. At least Sonic 4 had the courtesy to make new zones based off the old. Give me Sonic 4 any day. It makes complete sense that they couldn't manage to think up zone transitions.

But yeah, I agree time constraints would have been an issue.

[superman43]

9 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Mania has hardly any creativity, 75% of the game isn't even new, it's all recycled stuff! It's even more rehash Zone than Sonic 4. At least Sonic 4 had the courtesy to make new zones based off the old. Give me Sonic 4 any day. It makes complete sense that they couldn't manage to think up zone transitions.

Despite having much of the recycled stuff it is at least used wisely. Sonic 4 felt like rehash because there were mainly things that appeared in the same trope or even one zone. When playing Mania the rehashing doesn´t disturb me, whereas in Sonic 4 it does.

[Plasme]

Sonic 4 is still an awful game, but it's no different to Mania, it still rehashes everything. Except people gives 4 a bad PR because of confirmation bias.

[Sonikko]

18 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Mania has hardly any creativity, 75% of the game isn't even new, it's all recycled stuff! It's even more rehash Zone than Sonic 4. At least Sonic 4 had the courtesy to make new zones based off the old. Give me Sonic 4 any day. It makes complete sense that they couldn't manage to think up zone transitions.

But yeah, I agree time constraints would have been an issue.

Sonic 4 (EP1): Stages look almost identical just worse and with bad art direction. The level layouts are the worst 2D Sonic has ever seen.

Sonic 4 (EP2): Zones are still rehashed, they don't look as bad as EP1 but still look pretty lazy with assets copy-pasting all around. The level layouts got even worse somehow. 

Mania: Stages share names and looks, but are almost completely new. The remixing has been done so beautifully that 17 hours in all the returning levels still feel fresh, even if I have played the classics to the death. The level design is top notch, maybe the best the series has ever seen.

The Mania team had to work within restrictions, and they did that beautifully. Sonic 4 was meant to be like that from the beginning because it was a cheap mobile tilte, a cash grab.

EDIT:

And you know what? Rehashing aesthetics was far from being the worst issue Sonic 4 had. 

And claiming that the Mania team lacked imagination is an offense imho. I mean, just look at that game.

 

[LunchPolice]

Despite being a retread, Mania is more consistently surprising than almost any other game I can think of. Sure the old level themes return but they are jam-packed with new ideas and refreshed visuals. Comparing a labour of love like this to a superficial, clueless mess like Sonic 4 is pretty insulting IMO.

To claim the Sonic Mania devs lack creativity is a truly bizarre stance to take.

[Badnik Mechanic]

36 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Mania has hardly any creativity, 75% of the game isn't even new, it's all recycled stuff! 

I don't understand this post.

If a dev makes new assets from scratch... which is the case with Mania. Everything was redone from scratch...

But because the levels look like a previous one... only make the level design is totally different, contains new ideas and gameplay alterations.

It's lazy and has no imagination?

Erm... Nah I don't understand.

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 hour ago, Plasme said:

Nah dude, the reason why there's no zone transitions is just because the team had no imagination and stopped. There's zero evidence zones were shifted around. Zilch.

Studiopolis was commonly referred to as late in the game due to its increased difficulty over Green Hill but is now the third level. In the beta level select Mirage Saloon is listed before Studiopolis too.

Granted the beta level select order could have been alphabetical which would make sense. For what it's worth, I think it's just as plausible that they realized at some point during development that they had to prioritize certain story beats and leave others hanging if they wanted to make launch.

[Cornelius Fudge]

That's very intriguing. I wasn't even aware that all of the Hard-Boiled Heavies actually betrayed Eggman at all. I thought that was only the case with the Heavy King. It does make me wonder if Eggman repurposed all of the Hard-Boiled Heavies or at least binded them to his will with the Phantom Ruby. It's also interesting how it places greater importance on the Heavy King's character as a whole. He was the only one who successfully eluded Eggman's attempts at controlling him and obtaining the Phantom Ruby and he literally went out of his own way to seize the Master Emerald for himself. That's ... pretty badass.

[Jango]

He's clearly a troll. Or just dumb.

[Tracker_TD]

I didn't think I'd ever be around at the right moment to see some moron actually, unironically play the "Mania has no ambition" card. Incredible. How long we keeping this troll round, anyway? The novelty's worn off now. 

Anyway yeah, it was obviously time constraints, as anyone with common sense could tell you. As for the stuff Simon's said, I mentioned it briefly but now that we have access to the filenames, all the enemy names are known. I'd be curious to know what the purpose of the SP500 files in Press Garden are though. AFAIK they're never used... and graphics-wise it looks more like a PC-Engine than an of the SG- series.