Sonic Mania Simon Thomley (Stealth) Stream Info Dump

[Tenko]

4 hours ago, superman43 said:

That´s a glitch. Entering the special stage in the train will make Knuckles appear on the Tornado again. Entering the bonus stage right before the mini-boss won´t.

Interesting, it must be one of the few bugs they did remove along with putting the DRM into the PC version, as I have entered the special stage on the train and then done the boss and Knuckles has never shown up again like in this video.

[Sonictrainer]

2 hours ago, Tracker_TD said:

As for the stuff Simon's said, I mentioned it briefly but now that we have access to the filenames, all the enemy names are known.

Do you have a link to this?

Spoiler

I'm curious about the TMZ Badniks and if the MMZ Act 1 Boss had a name.

 

[CleverSonicUsername]

43 minutes ago, Tenko said:

Interesting, it must be one of the few bugs they did remove along with putting the DRM into the PC version, as I have entered the special stage on the train and then done the boss and Knuckles has never shown up again like in this video.

This is the one bug I kinda wish was left in because it will never not be funny to me to see Knuckles chilling in the wreckage before Act 2. Knuckles don't care.

[molul]

9 hours ago, Plasme said:

Mania has hardly any creativity, 75% of the game isn't even new, it's all recycled stuff! It's even more rehash Zone than Sonic 4. At least Sonic 4 had the courtesy to make new zones based off the old. Give me Sonic 4 any day. It makes complete sense that they couldn't manage to think up zone transitions.

No offense, but you really don't detect creativity correctly. Hardly? This game is creativity all around, even in the reimagined zones. 

[Tani Coyote]

Everyone, I and the other staff cannot emphasize it enough: if you have any problem with a member's posts, please, report it to us. Don't respond with any name calling or suggested administrative actions.

On 9/1/2017 at 7:38 PM, Jango said:

He's clearly a troll. Or just dumb.

Calling other posters "trolls" or "dumb" is against the rules. If you do it again, you will receive a strike. Any issues with another member's posts should be reported for staff review.

On 9/1/2017 at 7:40 PM, Tracker_TD said:

I didn't think I'd ever be around at the right moment to see some moron actually, unironically play the "Mania has no ambition" card. Incredible.How long we keeping this troll round, anyway? The novelty's worn off now.

Calling other posters - regardless of your grievances - trolls, morons, idiots, etc. (to say nothing of calling for someone's banning) is against the rules. If there's an issue, it should be reported to staff; even if someone is trolling, flaming, etc. that doesn't excuse jumping in yourself, either.

I've talked with other staff and we decided to let you off with a warning. That being said, if you make a post like this again, you will be banned.

[Plasme]

Look guys, part of this is my problem. I've behaved like an asshole, and I apologise for that.

But I get riled up when people accuse me of trolling just because I don't like Sonic Mania. It really pissed me off and I acted like an idiot because of it. Believe it or not, I'm not alone in thinking this, I've spoken to many people who also don't like the vast number of reused stages, the poor level design, the awful bosses, the tedious, dated nature of the continue system. Et cetera.

Mark my words, I won't seem so outlandish in a couple of years, because I can guarantee that people will start to get on Mania's case as they did with Generations in a few years time. Its flaws will become more marked and the honeymoon effect of a new, sprite Sonic game will wear off. And if not like Generations, you'll probably get people divided over it like they are now with Sonic CD.

 

[Badnik Mechanic]

4 minutes ago, Plasme said:

dated nature of the continue system.

...Ok what.... .... no really what... 

Now I have suspected this because of some of the things you've said but... yeah I'm finding it hard to doubt now..

You've not played this game have you? Because the game doesn't have a continue system unless you play it in a very specific mode. 

[Plasme]

Just now, Mayor D said:

...Ok what.... .... no really what... 

Now I have suspected this because of some of the things you've said but... yeah I'm finding it hard to doubt now..

You've not played this game have you? Because the game doesn't have a continue system unless you play it in a very specific mode. 

I have played the game. Holy fuck, like I'm trying to turn a new leaf here and be respectful, but I'm not going to get far if you all doubt the validity and good-faith of my claims.

I'm referring to how you can't restart from Act 2 if you die in Act 2, you go back to Act 1. It's an outdated mechanic from Sonic 3, included in Mania for no reason but nostalgia. Just for reference, even Sonic 4 got the continue system right.

Except in Sonic 3 you could reliably get continues (which resumed from your recent lampost after game overs) in special and bonus stages, and in Mania there's no way to get them out of no-save mode. So they wholesail copied Sonic 3's continue system without actually considering why it was designed that way. It's another sign of Mania's poor design.

[Badnik Mechanic]

8 minutes ago, Plasme said:

but I'm not going to get far if you all doubt the validity and good-faith of my claims.

To be honest mate. Slapping in your post what's effectively "Mark my words in a few years I'll be right" kinda undermines that.

People get on Generations case because they're starting to realise the level design is naff and the boost makes the gameplay dull.

Your argument is what effectively boils down to "I've seen red cars before! There are no new red cars they're just a rehash!"

[Sonictrainer]

20 minutes ago, Plasme said:

Except in Sonic 3 you could reliably get continues (which resumed from your recent lampost after game overs) in special and bonus stages, and in Mania there's no way to get them out of no-save mode. So they wholesail copied Sonic 3's continue system without actually considering why it was designed that way. It's another sign of Mania's poor design.

Isn't the point of No Save Mode to challenge yourself to beat the game with a limited amount of lives and without getting a Game Over? (while also messing around with Secrets)

 

20 minutes ago, Plasme said:

I'm referring to how you can't restart from Act 2 if you die in Act 2, you go back to Act 1. It's an outdated mechanic from Sonic 3, included in Mania for no reason but nostalgia.

Sonic Advance, Sonic Advance 2, Sonic Rush, and Sonic Rush Adventure also do this.

[JezMM]

Even if we say "okay Mania is full of rehash" and ignore all the creative spinning that rehashed content had, I'd say Mania's four original zones have more creativity and interesting platforming concepts than Sonic 4 by a long shot.  And I LIKE Sonic 4.

I do agree that the Act 1-only save system though is bullshit and the devs know it's bullshit because they allowed saving on an Act by Act basis in the 1/2/CD ports.  Mania is no less a difficult game.  I'm particularly bothered because I've suffered a few crashes recently and was sent much further back than need be due to the save system.

I don't think people will "turn" on this game like Generations though.  Despite it's flaws and even if one does consider it rehashy, the stage design is pure platforming delight that is ten times more interesting and full of replay value than Generations was even the first time I played it.

On 02/09/2017 at 0:05 AM, CleverSonicUsername said:

Studiopolis was commonly referred to as late in the game due to its increased difficulty over Green Hill but is now the third level. In the beta level select Mirage Saloon is listed before Studiopolis too.

Granted the beta level select order could have been alphabetical which would make sense. For what it's worth, I think it's just as plausible that they realized at some point during development that they had to prioritize certain story beats and leave others hanging if they wanted to make launch.

From what I recall, Studiopolis was only ever referred to as LATER in the game than Green Hill.  Meanwhile very soon after Mirage Saloon was revealed, they confirmed it was from much later than in the game than the other two stages.

It is odd though, maybe it's more complicated than I imagine and they can't just slap the effect on like placing an enemy in the game, but you'd think it'd only take an afternoon to say "hey I can't think of zone transitions for these ones that wouldn't need a bunch of resources made specially for the cut-scene and we're running out of time, let's quickly have Eggman come on-screen and use the Phantom Ruby to warp Sonic for these ones".

[CleverSonicUsername]

Just now, JezMM said:

It is odd though, maybe it's more complicated than I imagine and they can't just slap the effect on like placing an enemy in the game, but you'd think it'd only take an afternoon to say "hey I can't think of zone transitions for these ones that wouldn't need a bunch of resources made specially for the cut-scene and we're running out of time, let's quickly have Eggman come on-screen and use the Phantom Ruby to warp Sonic for these ones".

I just got up to Metallic Madness with Knuckles on PC and he uses one of those Sky Sanctuary teleportation crystals, and it made me think "it's pretty weird how Sonic and Tails didn't just run right and do the same thing in their story."

I do think level orders could have been played with, but time constraints could just as easily been the issue. Of course those don't have to be mutually exclusive. In any case, it definitely seems something is up, I find it hard to believe the Mania team of all people couldn't think of some rudimentary transitions.

[Mark1]

Mania will never get the same hate as Generations, since it does classic Sonic gameplay right...and perfectly. Generations from the start had flaws in level design and player control. Mania, from a classic point of view, is above and beyond it. The remade zones are great fun, as are the new ones. Generations did well with remaking them too, but Mania felt far more fresh compared to when I first played the former. They made me love some previous zones I disliked.

It's only lacking in story (via missing cutscenes) and minor boss spikes in difficulty which, in comparison to other Sonic games, are very minor issues. This game deserves every bit of praise it gets.

We will likely see a better game than Mania, but they will both be better than anything Sonic Team has produced since Adventure 1 on Dreamcast. And I enjoyed a lot of their games too, but they are not capable of producing AAA games with the current staff. And I find it baffling and disappointing that this is still happening. 

[molul]

7 hours ago, Plasme said:

Mark my words, I won't seem so outlandish in a couple of years, because I can guarantee that people will start to get on Mania's case as they did with Generations in a few years time. Its flaws will become more marked and the honeymoon effect of a new, sprite Sonic game will wear off. And if not like Generations, you'll probably get people divided over it like they are now with Sonic CD.

 

Yeah I wouldn't count on that. This game is really different from Generations, you can tell it from the fanbase and critical reaction. There's no point on hating a game that shows a dev team knowing what they're doing (as opposed to Sonic 4), and so much attention to detail. You can or can not enjoy it, but there's really good quality here. Maybe it's not PERFECT, but it's clearly one of the best Sonic games in 23 years.

[CleverSonicUsername]

The thing with act-by-act saving is weird since Time Attack still lets you pick up between acts. I can maybe get them not wanting to make it take forever to scroll through the level select on a save by doubling the amount but it is a bit odd that you can't turn the game off at the start of Act 2 and not get right back into it. Maybe just have a button press toggle acts on the save select screen.

But you know what's even more bizarre to me than that? The lack of native d-input support. I thought they had saturn controllers plugged in for demos at some events but now I have to go through some bullshit process with BPM. Hope to hell that gets patched.

What's this topic about again? Oh yeah, Stealth's info dump. I hope we get more like this in the future. Tee shared some details from his side of development, Stealth has too, would love to see Tax drop some details of his own. Everyone is probably pretty tightly bound by NDAs but the details of this games production is something I really hope we get down the line.

[molul]

I was a bit upset for the d-input thing, but once I made my Genesis controller work through xbox360ce I was happy again. They should fixed it, though.

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 hour ago, molul said:

I was a bit upset for the d-input thing, but once I made my Genesis controller work through xbox360ce I was happy again. They should fixed it, though.

I tried to get it to work through BPM and it was just a fucking mess. I was thinking of getting Joy2Key and doing it that way, but I want to see if they say anything about patching d-input support in soon.

[molul]

I sent an email to Sega support asking for it and they said it's just not supported I'd highly recommend using xbox360ce. Here's a tutorial: 

 

[UpCDownCLeftCRightC]

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 6:42 AM, A HyperKING heavy engine said:

Is this that 3d engine he was talking about a while back?

I'd LOVE to know if this happened to be true. Me and my obsession with nailing 3D Sonic's gameplay. 

[Natie]

23 hours ago, Plasme said:

It's an outdated mechanic from Sonic 3, included in Mania for no reason but nostalgia.

Yeah man I'm so nostalgic for... game overs?

I'll play devil's advocate though and say I think that restarting from act 1 is a decent punishment for losing all your lives. I feel like if you just restarted where you left off there'd be no point to even having lives in the first place.

[CleverSonicUsername]

How do you game over in this game anyway? I understand there's people (likely not on this board) who are unfamiliar with the controls of the classic games and might need time to acclimate to it, but Mania throws rings and 1UP boxes at you like candy.

[Diogenes]

Just now, CleverSonicUsername said:

How do you game over in this game anyway? I understand there's people (likely not on this board) who are unfamiliar with the controls of the classic games and might need time to acclimate to it, but Mania throws rings and 1UP boxes at you like candy.

Easily enough if you don't go out of your way to find all those 1-ups and rings, and get hit often enough that you rarely build up to 100 rings, and then die a couple times on the tricky parts.

Really though, if people are hardly ever game overing, that's even more reason not to have the mechanic. It's only punishing the players who are already struggling the most with the game.

[CleverSonicUsername]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Easily enough if you don't go out of your way to find all those 1-ups and rings, and get hit often enough that you rarely build up to 100 rings, and then die a couple times on the tricky parts.

Really though, if people are hardly ever game overing, that's even more reason not to have the mechanic. It's only punishing the players who are already struggling the most with the game.

 

Yeah the whole concept of game overs and extra lives is pretty antiquated, and that applies to a lot more than just Sonic. Still I think Mania almost goes out of its way to give you lives compared to its predecessors.

[Badnik Mechanic]

12 minutes ago, CleverSonicUsername said:

How do you game over in this game anyway? I understand there's people (likely not on this board) who are unfamiliar with the controls of the classic games and might need time to acclimate to it, but Mania throws rings and 1UP boxes at you like candy.

Ive seen the Studiopolis boss can utterly destroy some peoples games if they've  not been getting lives beforehand.

It's the first boss which requires you to be constantly moving, your target is an enemy missile which based on everything in the game seen so far, your first instinct is to avoid.

The approach to the last hit also has no rings on the way to it. So if you enter this stage with 0 rings it's a very risky moment.

[CleverSonicUsername]

5 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

Ive seen the Studiopolis boss can utterly destroy some peoples games if they've  not been getting lives beforehand.

It's the first boss which requires you to be constantly moving, your target is an enemy missile which based on everything in the game seen so far, your first instinct is to avoid.

The approach to the last hit also has no rings on the way to it. So if you enter this stage with 0 rings it's a very risky moment.

This is weird to me because the last time I played it, the last path DID have rings. I think it might be randomly selecting from four paths, one which lacks rings, but more often than not the one that lacks rings is the last one its sent me down.

Edit: Granted, they should all have rings. I will admit there's some bosses where it should offer you ring replenishment where it otherwise doesn't simply because some of those fights can go on a while.