Sonic Forces is rough to the point of being comical (according to reviewer)

[Dscross]

1 hour ago, Ayliffe said:

Eh, I see this flung around a bit and I realistically can't see that happening with Forces. If Boom can still live 3 or so years after Rise of Lyric and the franchise in general can survive 06 (and the stream of not-so-good games until like 2010-ish), then I'm pretty sure modern can survive Forces selling a bit bad.

Also like two-thirds of the game aren't even modern sonic, so there's that :V

Yeah, but there hasn't been a popular 2D sonic game like Mania for ages. It's confirmation for people that Sonic only works in 2D. I don't agree with that BTW, but it's not how non fans will see it.

[Blue Blood]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Why, it's almost as if bad games get panned and good games get praised, and Sonic Team shouldn't be coddled for turning out consistently lackluster work.

Sonic Team can never improve if fans keep loyally buying every mediocre-to-awful offering they throw at them. Perhaps a good panning (in contrast to Mania's praise) is just the wake-up call this company needs to step up their game.

I wish this would happen.

But Forces very existence following Lost World which Generations, the fact that Sonic 4 happened twice and the fact it took an independent team of fans to get brought on board to finally deliver a game that people wanted without dividing up the fanbase... Surely you understand the scepticism when it comes to Sonic Team/SEGA and interpreting feedback and criticism correctly?

I would love for them to look at Mania and Forces reception and take the time to to re-evaluate what they're doing with the bloody series. But I'll believe it only when I see it. Until then, I'm just going to expect Sonic Team to get it wrong and mess up. Again. "Sonic Forces did not perform as well as we hoped. This must mean that the fans not like 3D and Modern Sonic, as this was the only difference between Forces and Mania". You know, or some other shit. 

[A sonic fan]

i think we may have to accept that sonic team are just not good video game developers. and that sonic needs to be given to another developer.

[Blue Blood]

3 minutes ago, A sonic fan said:

i think we may have to accept that sonic team are just not good video game developers. and that sonic needs to be given to another developer.

You can end up with Mania or you can end up with Boom. Sonic Team isn't the only problem.

[Cornelius Fudge]

If Forces fails, they don't need to consider trashing away Modern Sonic, what they need to do is reevaluate their design choices with Forces. Generations was rather successful, so the game at its core can be successful, but their game philosophy stemming from "we don't want this game to be too hard," is what's holding back. Hopefully they don't go to the extreme and just trash away Modern Sonic just because it fails. It may not be as successful as Mania's style of gameplay, but there are plenty of fans including me who actually love the boosting style of play. The way Forces is doing it however is not the answer.

[Shiguy]

14 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

"Sonic Forces did not perform as well as we hoped. This must mean that the fans not like 3D and Modern Sonic, as this was the only difference between Forces and Mania". You know, or some other shit. 

You say that but, worst case scenario here:

"Well Gee, Sonic Forces wasn't the hot shit fans wanted, but Mania however..."

"Sir! We still have yet to complete Sonic 4 as a whole yet!

"Excellent idea [insert staff name here]!

We'll give it another go! Surely if Mania's success is anything to go by, we'll be damn if we can't do it ourselves!"

*Enter Sonic 4 Ep III & Knuckles! Except, it's a pale imitation of everything Mania did but Somehow worse!*

That's a very broad generalization yes, but considering Sonic Team's track record it's looking be a dangerously real possibillity atm.

(No joke, if turns out to be the case I will violently eat my own godamn shorts if I call this.)

 

[Endy]

6 hours ago, Joseph Henry said:

But of course the reviewer is a genesis fan. Forces is the most anti-veteran game ever.

Because that's exactly why the game includes levels dedicated to levels featuring supposedly Classic Sonic gameplay, and aside from that includes an extensive amount of 2d platforming? I mean, if I wants to alienate classic fans then it's doing a bang up job but I don't get the impression that's Forces intention.

[Pawn]

35 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

You can end up with Mania or you can end up with Boom. Sonic Team isn't the only problem.

Agreed. The team itself has changed hands enough times; then we have Chronicles, Dimps and Rise of Lyric for Wii U and 3DS (by BRB and Sanzaru respectively).

Even if the company isn't directly responsible for each failure, the fact that they keep allowing these games to happen is enough to point to SEGA being the problem. They are the common thread.

[Blue Blood]

2 minutes ago, Pawn said:

Agreed. The team itself has changed hands enough times; then we have Chronicles, Dimps and Rise of Lyric for Wii U and 3DS (by BRB and Sanzaru respectively).

It's pretty clear that SEGA is the problem.

Yep. I mean, Sonic Team have got to be part of the problem too because there's no reason for their levels design and gameplay/physics engines to be such trash, but hey ho.

[superman43]

And what if Mania + Forces celebration is to definitely cut out Classic Sonic ? I seriously hope it´s not that, but as said, one character would be cut off. And if it was Classic Sonic there would be no need to send him back to his "another dimension". Kind of ridiculous, but with present Sonic Team you never know.

[Milo]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

You can end up with Mania or you can end up with Boom. Sonic Team isn't the only problem.

 

2 hours ago, Pawn said:

Agreed. The team itself has changed hands enough times; then we have Chronicles, Dimps and Rise of Lyric for Wii U and 3DS (by BRB and Sanzaru respectively).

Even if the company isn't directly responsible for each failure, the fact that they keep allowing these games to happen is enough to point to SEGA being the problem. They are the common thread.

Sonic Team isn't the only problem, sure, but I feel safe in saying they're easily the biggest problem. While a lot of the elements we've seen with this game sound like they're being made by some higher-up committee (rather than the actual designers), Sonic Team has an long-entrenched reputation of making decisions by their own choice that would raise red flags from almost anyone else. Moreover, we're still seeing the same controversial habits they take to design (multiple playstyles, tons of automation, etc.), in spite of the changes we've seen with this game's presentation and Forces having more development time sunk into it than any past Sonic Team project in years.

As for the non-Sonic Team projects, I think it's worth noting that the context and climate both games were made is quite a bit different to how things are nowadays. Rise of Lyric for example was made and meddled with at a time just before Sega (of America)'s constant screwups and mismanaged projects came back to effectively bite them in the seat of their pants (layoffs, compnay restructuring, CEO apologies, etc.). A game like Mania (a main series game that Sega ceded near-complete creative control over to Taxman/Stealth/PWG) likely would had never gotten off the ground during that point of time. Prior to Mania, Rise of Lyric was also the only non-Sonic Team game that could be described as a major/high-profile release-- the rest of those games were handheld games and/or clear spinoff titles; so while the majority of them were forgettable at best, it's not like anyone outside the fanbase were actually aware of them either.