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Sonic Forces - Story Trailer (English and Japanese)

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Just now, Joseph Henry said:

Funny because the writer is reaching for the japanese audience. Who LOVES Shadow. He knows what he is doing. Is not like Pontaff or the Boom writers who don't know what to do with him. Shun Nakamura is a pretty big fan of Shadow.

That's the only faith I have from my understanding, this is the sonic 06 guy, and well shadow was the only one who made it out of that game looking good.

Oh god, what if they mess up someone else. RIP knuckles, he got the first leadership position since his own game and they bout to mess him up : P

 

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8 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

That's the only faith I have from my understanding, this is the sonic 06 guy, and well shadow was the only one who made it out of that game looking good.

Oh god, what if they mess up someone else. RIP knuckles, he got the first leadership position since his own game and they bout to mess him up : P

 

What if they don't mess up anyone? What if this turns out to be one of the best stories in a Sonic game ever?

Why Knuckles? He seems on character so far lol

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6 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

What if they don't mess up anyone? What if this turns out to be one of the best stories in a Sonic game ever?

That would be dope. But for me to hope for that they would have had to release a series of products prior for me to you know, expect that. The last few, particularly in the story department have been less than stellar

6 minutes ago, Joseph Henry said:

Why Knuckles? He seems on character so far lol

Because its always knuckles , watch watch. 

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7 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Because the potentially interesting question is "why is Shadow, well established as a hero at this point, siding with villains who are destroying cities and taking over the world?". And the answer we'll likely be getting is "he's not, some jerk just magicked his brain". That's not an interesting answer. That's not revealing some new side to the character. That's not building on some known aspect of the character. That's just making him into a puppet.

A better series might still be able to work with that, wringing pathos out of a friend and ally having their will stripped away and turned against the heroes. But we've fought Shadow plenty of times before, and we all know he's not going to be seriously hurt, so the player's not going to be bothered by having to knock some sense into him. There's not going to be any kind of meaningful consequence to this, it's just an excuse for a boss fight.

Ironically, with Shun Nakamura writing this story, I'd actually give it the benefit that it'll be more fleshed out than that.

Still though, actively making a stink out it being simple as opposed to as in depth as you;d wish it be though, isn't quite stable grounds to call it mind-numbingly stupid.

37 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

You can tell though. Even in sonic 06, before ROL the god  king of bad sonic games, folks were like" hey shadow's story in this game is kind of dope" .

His role doesn't need to be something amazing in Forces to make it through. Brainwashing is the easy way to go, but not some actively dumb way that's somehow going to hurt his reception. It'd have to to be something actively stupid, like just him being evil without explanation to do damage.

And while I myself particularly like Shadow's story in 06, that didn't have much to do with his popularity as opossed to the execution just managing to be better than its brethren and get shit done better.

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There's only a few reasons why Shadow would switch sides.

1. Hostage situation

2. Infinite offered to bring back Maria

3. Some dumb mechanic like Eggman's mind control weapon from Colours

4. That isn't Shadow at all.

Maybe we can strike out 3 and 4.

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18 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

Ironically, with Shun Nakamura writing this story, I'd actually give it the benefit that it'll be more fleshed out than that.

Somehow, having the director of Sonic '06 handling this game's writing doesn't fill me with confidence.

18 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

Still though, actively making a stink out it being simple as opposed to as in depth as you;d wish it be though, isn't quite stable grounds to call it mind-numbingly stupid.

Man feels like I spend half my time on this board arguing that it's okay for Sonic stories to be simple, and now when we've got a game begging to be taken seriously that everyone is hoping is deeper than the last few games, and I actually decide that, hey, this game should actually take its story seriously and write something of value, but apparently now it's bad to think a Sonic story is too simple.

Just now, caseykz said:

There's only a few reasons why Shadow would switch sides.

1. Hostage situation

2. Infinite offered to bring back Maria

3. Some dumb mechanic like Eggman's mind control weapon from Colours

4. That isn't Shadow at all.

Maybe we can strike out 3 and 4.

Trying to lure Shadow in with Maria hardly makes sense since he's supposedly moved on from his past as of ShtH, and also that what he's doing is a huge betrayal of the promise he made to her.

And a hostage is only slightly more plausible, since I'd think Shadow's reaction to someone taking a hostage would be more "punch the stupid fucker who thinks he can toy with people's lives to get one over on me in his stupid fucking face" than "yeah sure I'll help you destroy the world".

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5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Somehow, having the director of Sonic '06 handling this game's writing doesn't fill me with confidence.

Regarding Shadow's involvement it does though. And frankly, I'm willing to give the man who was put in charge of the sinking ship that is 06, mid-development, the benefit of the doubt more than the man who abandoned it and let its development team get split up under his watch before leaving SEGA.

 

5 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Man feels like I spend half my time on this board arguing that it's okay for Sonic stories to be simple, and now when we've got a game begging to be taken seriously that everyone is hoping is deeper than the last few games, and I actually decide that, hey, this game should actually take its story seriously and write something of value, but apparently now it's bad to think a Sonic story is too simple.

Don't try to mince my argument that this particular singe plot point is okay being simple, into an argument that the entire story should be simple and that I think you're in the wrong for thinking a Sonic story is too simple.

We get enough  incorrect comprehension fluff like that around here. Which just makes one unnecessary mess after another.

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11 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

Regarding Shadow's involvement it does though.

Ah yes, because "the devil turned into Shadow's shadow and told him humanity would hate him but Shadow decided to be good anyway" really demonstrates the quality of writing he'll bring to the character.

11 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Ace Joranvexeon said:

Don't try to mince my argument that this particular singe plot point is okay being simple, into an argument that the entire story should be simple and that I think you're in the wrong for thinking a Sonic story is too simple.

We get enough  incorrect comprehension fluff like that around here. Which just makes one unnecessary mess after another.

Okay so what about when all the plot points end up being simple and dumb and the story doesn't amount to much of anything because of it?

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8 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Ah yes, because "the devil turned into Shadow's shadow and told him humanity would hate him but Shadow decided to be good anyway" really demonstrates the quality of writing he'll bring to the character.

Not really? Since that's kinda of an oversimplification for the sake of it. That said though, at worst what you described is more so harmless at worst than actively something to be afraid of, since it did help highlight Shadow's evolution of character. Of course, it didn't do anything mind-blowing, but it did good by Shadow nonetheless.

All I'm saying is that when we've seen Nakamura head a story with Shadow in it, he hasn't done wrong by him yet.

8 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Somehow, having the director of Sonic '06 handling this game's writing doesn't fill me with confidence.

If we're counting both directors, then I'd say that having Shun Nakamura as lead in charge from the get-go has more far less fearful than if bloody Yuji Naka were back, considering how much at fault he is from the beginning of 06's development. Facts about Sonic 06 are constantly seeping in through the woodwork and they help paint quite a picture.

Don't get me wrong, Nakamura has some of the blame, but given the circumstances of which he was plucked and picked to take control of the project, especially in the middle of its hectic development, I'm not sure we've had a proper bout to judge Nakamura on fully, especially considering how he has managed to do better in writing with games such as Rythm Thief.

8 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Okay so what about when all the plot points end up being simple and dumb and the story doesn't amount to much of anything because of it?

I'm skeptical, not cynical to the point of the detriment that cynicism produces. I can't really engage that line of thinking without stepping into the conjecture territory that this prediction is based in.

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I still say Shadow sympathizing with Infinite due to them both being artificial whatevers, maybe pretending to work for Leggo' my Eggo because he wants to convince him to stop being an asshole would be a good way to go. Not that I expect them to actually involve the guy's origins. I'm honestly surprised so many people haven't completely given up on him having a good character arc after his namesake game. I can't find the nerve to be angry at someone who hasn't had any particular depth or sensible writing in fifteen years. And that's giving SA2 a lot of credit.

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This is a possibility that I haven't heard people talk about. What if Shadow pulls a Majin Vegeta? In other words, he sides with the villains in order to get more power, but not because he agrees with the villains. He realizes that beating Infinite in his current state is impossible, so he sides with Eggman and Infinite in order to get more power, and then he betrays them later on? That could be a much more interesting than just plain mind control, and it also furthers the Vegeta parallels. One reason I believe this is because they specifically pointed out Shadow as separate from the others, which means that he is probably not just afflicted with the same condition as the other villains. Another reason why I believe this is because in some shots Shadow's eyes are clear and in other shots they look dead. Maybe when his eyes are clear he has shaken off the brainwashing, and when his eyes are dull he has succumbed to it.

59bf54535f58d_Screenshot2017-09-1722_04_45.png.0d3cd8c00f169ef2092ef54e246eebe6.png

59bf5462af390_Screenshot2017-09-1722_05_23.thumb.png.44a38abc5c60a2128ded0f14172f3257.png

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6 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Somehow, having the director of Sonic '06 handling this game's writing doesn't fill me with confidence.

Man feels like I spend half my time on this board arguing that it's okay for Sonic stories to be simple, and now when we've got a game begging to be taken seriously that everyone is hoping is deeper than the last few games, and I actually decide that, hey, this game should actually take its story seriously and write something of value, but apparently now it's bad to think a Sonic story is too simple.

Trying to lure Shadow in with Maria hardly makes sense since he's supposedly moved on from his past as of ShtH, and also that what he's doing is a huge betrayal of the promise he made to her.

And a hostage is only slightly more plausible, since I'd think Shadow's reaction to someone taking a hostage would be more "punch the stupid fucker who thinks he can toy with people's lives to get one over on me in his stupid fucking face" than "yeah sure I'll help you destroy the world".

We still haven't seen Omega yet despite him being in the Sonic Forces mobile game so he could be a hostage.

However the idea of Infinite telling Shadow he'll bring Maria back if he joins him only for Shadow to refuse his offer because it would be a betrayal to what Maria wanted for him to bring hope to humanity making Infinite not liking that answer he instead brings back Maria anyway and takes her as a hostage thus Shadow becomes obedient to Infinite's demands not wanting to see Maria harmed again especially now that he has her back.

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Anyway, what I hope they will show at TGS, since there is apparently a new demo:

- Modern Green Hill

- Metal Sonic Boss (which is probably fought by both Sonic and Avatar)

- A new zone with a tag team stage that involves playable Tails and/or Knuckles

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I wouldn't buy that. Shadow has moved on. He carried out Maria's dying wish and saved the world (three times over, in fact). He wouldn't be swayed by the promise of bringing Maria back to life in a ruined world where humanity most definitely needs saving once again.

Why would you want to bring someone back to life to experience  the world falling to pieces. That doesn't make sense.

"Hey Maria come and look at all these pathetic humans I killed. Aren't you so happy I brought you back to life?"

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Have you never been in love. Or cared a lot. She s dead but seeing her alive would be a game changer. Its easy to right off someobe passed away aftwr.some time.  But to see them alive again and to say your name. Would be different. And only 1 percent is in hell. the rest is simply conquered under eggman watch

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2 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Have you never been in love.

When did this thread become so deep and personal? /s

No it's still a really poor explanation. As if making him one of the villains in this game doesn't already undermine the character development he had in the past, that would just make it worse. There's more to Shadow than Maria. That plot point came to a reasonable end. 

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If I was to wager a guess as to why Shadow is where he is in Forces, I'd guess it might go like this:

> Shadow was originally a Resistance member, perhaps working alongside Rouge and Omega.

> Something happens (maybe Rouge and/or Omega are captured) that causes Shadow to attempt a solo mission.

> The mission goes wrong, Eggman captures Shadow (possibly with the help of Infinite) and most likely brainwashes him.

> Shadow becomes a part of Eggman's elite mooks, alongside Metal, Chaos and Zavok throughout the game.

> By the end of the game, Shadow might be 'saved' and (re?)join the Resistance.

I'd honestly be surprised if they did anything more than this, since I doubt he's a villain for any more of a reason than "we need a Sonic vs. Shadow fight!"

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8 hours ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

This is a possibility that I haven't heard people talk about. What if Shadow pulls a Majin Vegeta? In other words, he sides with the villains in order to get more power, but not because he agrees with the villains. He realizes that beating Infinite in his current state is impossible, so he sides with Eggman and Infinite in order to get more power, and then he betrays them later on? That could be a much more interesting than just plain mind control, and it also furthers the Vegeta parallels. One reason I believe this is because they specifically pointed out Shadow as separate from the others, which means that he is probably not just afflicted with the same condition as the other villains. Another reason why I believe this is because in some shots Shadow's eyes are clear and in other shots they look dead. Maybe when his eyes are clear he has shaken off the brainwashing, and when his eyes are dull he has succumbed to it.

59bf54535f58d_Screenshot2017-09-1722_04_45.png.0d3cd8c00f169ef2092ef54e246eebe6.png

59bf5462af390_Screenshot2017-09-1722_05_23.thumb.png.44a38abc5c60a2128ded0f14172f3257.png

Unless Shadow is having a mid life crisis as a result of this, it's really nothing like Majin Vegeta at all.

Can we please stop forcing DBZ parallels, it's not the 2000's anymore.

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29 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

I wouldn't buy that. Shadow has moved on. He carried out Maria's dying wish and saved the world (three times over, in fact). He wouldn't be swayed by the promise of bringing Maria back to life in a ruined world where humanity most definitely needs saving once again.

Why would you want to bring someone back to life to experience  the world falling to pieces. That doesn't make sense.

"Hey Maria come and look at all these pathetic humans I killed. Aren't you so happy I brought you back to life?"

I thought the idea would be that Infinite brings her back...and threatens to kill her again to mox Shadow up. Even a person who has moved on wouldn't be able to say no to that type of hostage situation.

It'd definitely be a way to mox Shadow up without regressing his character.

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4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I thought the idea would be that Infinite brings her back...and threatens to kill her again to mox Shadow up. Even a person who has moved on wouldn't be able to say no to that type of hostage situation.

It'd definitely be a way to mox Shadow up without regressing his character.

Eeeeeeeeeeeexatcly this

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